This defense will continue to struggle...

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 09-19-2011, 07:29 AM

...against teams that get the ball out quickly and use the middle of the field until we get some LB's in here who can cover. And I'm not talking about being able to shut down RB's and TE's man to man...I'm just talking about general zone awareness.

When we are in zone...which we are in most of the time...LB's have to help out the secondary by getting in the passing lanes of curls, crossing routes, slants and even on some short/intermediate comebacks.

Our corners can only do so much...people talk about they want our CB's to press a lot, well, no team presses a lot except the Jets and Raiders...pressing is an easy way to get beat if you make one single mistake with your technique. So if that is the case, we need out LB's to help out...and lord have mercy, we don't have a single LB who can play in space!

Ray gets by on experience, but the dirty secret here is that when he is out there in space, his body just doesn't get to where his mind is often out there...McClain is an unmitigated disaster in space, he can't cover, has poor instincts in zones, and can't tackle my grandmother in space. Ellerbe is better, but he still has problems getting proper depth in his drops. JJ is almost McClain like in totally looking like a fish out of water when he has to drop. Even BA, who is our best in space, he is below average.

We have to get some more complete LB's in here...we can mask it sometimes, but in general, it hurts our pass rush when the QB is letting the ball go right on his 3rd or 5th step on his drop back, and our corners get exposed.

**Bhcforlife** · 09-19-2011, 07:41 AM

Has been a problem since Bart Scott left. IMO the Ravens FO and defensive staff has vastly overrated the group of LBs they have right now. Every one of them outside of BA is the same type of player...good against the run but a liability in coverage. I don't know if I'll ever know what they saw/see in McClain. He should be a situational player, not a starter. Ellerbe could be a good 2 down player but we all know the issue there. Big mistake not to bring in/draft a coverage LB.

**GOTA** · 09-19-2011, 07:49 AM

The bigger issue in my opinion is the lack of a pass rush. Right after the draft I DeCosta say that was their number 1 priority in free agency. They brought in no one. Kruger still can't get enough pressure when the games count. Kindle can't even make the active roster. JJ, Ellerbe and McClain just don't have the pass rush skills. With the injuries to the secondary that creative pressure we saw from the secondary in the preseason has not been used. Suggs alone is not good enough to consistently get pressure.

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 09-19-2011, 07:53 AM

I agree, but if the QB is getting the ball as soon as his 3rd or 5th foot hit, there aren't many pass rushes that are going to get there unless someone is completely unblocked.

Pass rush and coverage work together...while we obviously didn't get good pressure, I didn't see Hasselbeck standing in one spot for 4 or 5 seconds too much...he saw something pre-snap a lot and knew where he was going by the time his plant foot hit the turf.

**RavensNTerps** · 09-19-2011, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

The bigger issue in my opinion is the lack of a pass rush. Right after the draft I DeCosta say that was their number 1 priority in free agency. They brought in no one. Kruger still can't get enough pressure when the games count. Kindle can't even make the active roster. JJ, Ellerbe and McClain just don't have the pass rush skills. With the injuries to the secondary that creative pressure we saw from the secondary in the preseason has not been used. Suggs alone is not good enough to consistently get pressure.

When you play against good QBs passrush only gets you so far. The guys that can get rid of the ball in under 2 seconds, like Hasslebeck was doing yesterday, won't be fazed. The key is disguising your coverages to buy your passrush that extra half second.

**Bhcforlife** · 09-19-2011, 07:57 AM

I see a lot of people talking about the pass rusher yesterday but I don't see how that was an issue. A high percentage of Hass's dropbacks, I would say 75%+, the ball was out as soon as he finished dropping back. He didn't have to stand there and survey the field, he knew where he was going and went there. Even on the deep balls, he was just lobbing it up and letting Britt run under it. I think you could have had a defense full of great pass rusher and it wouldn't have made much difference yesterday.

**Teavo** · 09-19-2011, 08:22 AM

These are excellent observations and I sadly have to agree.

Measured purely on athletic ability Ray probably isn't a true 3-down LB any more. However his instincts and intangibles are still excellent, so if we had one or two other LBs who could drop back and cover effectively, then Ray's shortcomings in coverage wouldn't be a serious problem.

Except we don't have any LBs who can do that.

I think McClain is a serious weakness in almost every aspect of the game, and I don't think Ellerbe is much better. We need to find someone new to play there. It's too late for this season but for 2012 it should be a priority.

Linebackers are at least supposed to clog up some throwing lanes. We see that done to Flacco by opposing defenses, at least sometimes, but our guys don't seem to have a knack for it. And it puts our DBs out on islands. Add to that a lack of pass rush yesterday and we're in trouble.

I'd like to see Pollard come in for an LB on third downs. The dropoff in run-stopping power wouldn't be that significant.

**GOTA** · 09-19-2011, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by RavensNTerps

When you play against good QBs passrush only gets you so far. The guys that can get rid of the ball in under 2 seconds, like Hasslebeck was doing yesterday, won't be fazed. The key is disguising your coverages to buy your passrush that extra half second.

Did you see the Jaguars play the Titans last week? How is it they were able to get sacks and good pressure for the first 3 quarters?

**Ravenswintitle** · 09-19-2011, 08:41 AM

Hasselbeck had plenty of time, it wasn't like he was fipping it out in 3 seconds. Many of those plays he didn't get the ball out quickly at all

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 09-19-2011, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Did you see the Jaguars play the Titans last week? How is it they were able to get sacks and good pressure for the first 3 quarters?

Coverage. If he can't throw it because his reads are covered, he has to hold it an extra second or two.

The Jags don't have ANY pass rushers.

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 09-19-2011, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

Hasselbeck had plenty of time, it wasn't like he was fipping it out in 3 seconds. Many of those plays he didn't get the ball out quickly at all

Oh yes he was.

There were a couple times where he had the ball for 4-5 seconds, but those were on 3 man rushes.

I mean check out the highlights...it was like this pretty much from the 2nd quarter on.

**festivus** · 09-19-2011, 09:32 AM

Interesting thoughts.

It's funny, in my head the sentence started the same way but ended...

"... until we have a CB who can match up against one of these physical specimens at WR. This breed of tall, fast, strong WRs will overmatch any of our CBs."

The Steelers don't have that guy so we matched up fine. But we just can't defend a Kenny Britt, unless Smith, after he's back from his ankle, really is that good.

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 09-19-2011, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by festivus

Interesting thoughts.

It's funny, in my head the sentence started the same way but ended...

"... until we have a CB who can match up against one of these physical specimens at WR. This breed of tall, fast, strong WRs will overmatch any of our CBs."

The Steelers don't have that guy so we matched up fine. But we just can't defend a Kenny Britt, unless Smith, after he's back from his ankle, really is that good.

That's a good point, but every team that has picked us apart over the last 2 years didn't have a Britt type guy...Fitzpatrick, Ryan, Brady...guys get the ball out quickly and work the short/intermediate middle of the field have lit us up. The LB's HAVE to help out the corners in these zones and they just aren't built to do so.

**The Excellector** · 09-19-2011, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Did you see the Jaguars play the Titans last week? How is it they were able to get sacks and good pressure for the first 3 quarters?

The Titans played a clunker week 1 and played with more intensity and focus for their home opener? It's not that simple as saying "Well, this team did this to them last week, how come we couldn't do it?" Atlanta's offense got rocked by Chi-town, but Ryan throws four TDs against Philadelphia's defense. Chicago's defense looked great against Atlanta, but New Orleans lit them up for thirty without their best receiver.

**BLSmokey** · 09-19-2011, 09:45 AM

It's a significant failure of our FO and coaching staff that we haven't acquired and/or developed a legitimate ILB since Bart Scott back in 2002.

Of the current crop, Gooden and Phillips were just cut. McClain and Ellerbe are in a rotation of mediocrity, although Ellerbe at least does appear to have some more upside to come. When 35 year old Brendon Ayanbadejo is your best option for coverage to play next to 36 year old Ray Lewis, you know there is a serious problem.

For fuck's sake...give me a stud ILB prospect in the 1st round next year.

**GOTA** · 09-19-2011, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by The Eternal Ring

The Titans played a clunker week 1 and played with more intensity and focus for their home opener? It's not that simple as saying "Well, this team did this to them last week, how come we couldn't do it?" Atlanta's offense got rocked by Chi-town, but Ryan throws four TDs against Philadelphia's defense. Chicago's defense looked great against Atlanta, but New Orleans lit them up for thirty without their best receiver.

I can tell you didn't see the game. The Ravens defense had a franchise low number of sacks last season. They have just 1 pass rusher in Suggs and no matter how great he is they need someone else. DeCosta admitted it and said it was the teams #1 priority in free agency. I know that most Ravens fans are all excited about the 2 former Texans they signed but that was cap space that should have gone to improve the pass rush.

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 09-19-2011, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by BLSmokey

It's a significant failure of our FO and coaching staff that we haven't acquired and/or developed a legitimate ILB since Bart Scott back in 2002.

Of the current crop, Gooden and Phillips were just cut. McClain and Ellerbe are in a rotation of mediocrity, although Ellerbe at least does appear to have some more upside to come. When 35 year old Brendon Ayanbadejo is your best option for coverage to play next to 36 year old Ray Lewis, you know there is a serious problem.

For fuck's sake...give me a stud ILB prospect in the 1st round next year.

I couldn't agree more.

ILB (or an athletic OLB if we plan on using a lot of 4-3 fronts) has to be a priority for this team next year...in UFA or in the first 2 rounds IMHO.

**Jayc00** · 09-19-2011, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by BLSmokey

It's a significant failure of our FO and coaching staff that we haven't acquired and/or developed a legitimate ILB since Bart Scott back in 2002.

Of the current crop, Gooden and Phillips were just cut. McClain and Ellerbe are in a rotation of mediocrity, although Ellerbe at least does appear to have some more upside to come. When 35 year old Brendon Ayanbadejo is your best option for coverage to play next to 36 year old Ray Lewis, you know there is a serious problem.

For fuck's sake...give me a stud ILB prospect in the 1st round next year.

**Ravenswarrior19** · 09-19-2011, 09:55 AM

To me, the answer is to jam receivers at the line of scrimmage to throw off the timing, especially TEs and slot WRs lined up in tight splits. It's hard to get the ball out in 2.5 seconds if your intended receiver is still caught up in a mush.

**The Excellector** · 09-19-2011, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

That's a good point, but every team that has picked us apart over the last 2 years didn't have a Britt type guy...Fitzpatrick, Ryan, Brady...guys get the ball out quickly and work the short/intermediate middle of the field have lit us up. The LB's HAVE to help out the corners in these zones and they just aren't built to do so.

Each case is different, although I someone agree with you. Roddy White might not have Kenny Britt's explosiveness, but he was certainly throwing around Josh Wilson and Lardarius Webb. Brady has had his moments when the coaching staff lets up (Rex running some prevent in 07, Mattison last year). Fitzpatrick was really bad.

I think that Cary Williams can become one of those guys. He could stand to get a little stronger and gain more game experience, but most of what I saw was technique.