The John Harbaugh Debate Thread (Merged Threads)

**JAB1985** · 11-15-2011, 08:00 AM

Youre upset over a gatorade bath and claiming that because the players did that, that the coach isnt championship caliber? Id sooner say that the fact that Harbs doesnt have them focused AFTER an emotional win is the telling sign. I dont think the gatorade bath shows anything except that beating the Steelers is important to this team which it is because we have to get through them to get to the championship. Im not sure what the problem with focus is, but that should be your argument not that they celebrate emotional wins. Ive seen every team in the league do that, including your Steelers. I love that Steelers fans seem so quick to point out the Ravens flaws this week while completely ignoring the fact that they lost to them twice and in doing so are pointing out their own flaws. If were that horrible they should have beat us and they couldnt.

**Florida Art** · 11-15-2011, 08:10 AM

"If so, I submit most humbly that all posters bow and grovel in fear of being bound to a rock until Ragnarok loosens all fetters."

Icelandic references: Mondo Cool

**JeromeBettis63** · 11-15-2011, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by JAB1985

Youre upset over a gatorade bath and claiming that because the players did that, that the coach isnt championship caliber? Id sooner say that the fact that Harbs doesnt have them focused AFTER an emotional win is the telling sign. I dont think the gatorade bath shows anything except that beating the Steelers is important to this team which it is because we have to get through them to get to the championship. Im not sure what the problem with focus is, but that should be your argument not that they celebrate emotional wins. Ive seen every team in the league do that, including your Steelers. I love that Steelers fans seem so quick to point out the Ravens flaws this week while completely ignoring the fact that they lost to them twice and in doing so are pointing out their own flaws. If were that horrible they should have beat us and they couldnt.

JAB, I think your post makes my point.

First, I am not upset over it. I thought it was revealing of the Ravens mindset. Harbaugh is the one that creates the mindset and atmosphere that leads to that event happening. Second, the wins against the Steelers were big wins. I don't think the Ravens suck, I think they are a darn good football team. Heck, half the time I think my opinion of your team is higher than most of your own fans. That drive by Flacco and company was exactly the kind of thing it takes to win a championship. But those wins are gonna be fairly hollow if your team watches the Steelers advance further in the play-offs again. Maybe I will be dead wrong, maybe the Ravens will win it all this year...it wouldn't shock me...but gatorade baths at mid-season aren't helping them get there.

**terps19** · 11-15-2011, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by JeromeBettis63

I am saying the gatorade bath represents a mindset. In my opinion its not the mindset of a championship team. I think it is part of some systemic issues for your team. I think Harbs pressers reveal that.

Ha... so no other Champ team has ever given a Gatorade bath to a coach during the season?

In my opinion you should worry about the Steelers end of season record and how it compares to the Ravens and not worry about a presser for the Ravens. Stir stir stir the pot.

**JeromeBettis63** · 11-15-2011, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Ngata Da Vida

This is spot on. I'm relatively new here, so my troll ears were up, but I think this is an absolute honest assessment.

John Harbaugh is incapable of PREPARING FOR SUCCESS, and it trickles down (I wonder if he is altogether ignored in some circles in the locker room). I am curious as to your take from a Steeler bent - do you think the talent is there, and it is the leadership that is failing?

The Pats have no D and the Steelers found a way to frustrate them which I think they can duplicate. The Jets haven't regained last years level of play yet and Sanchez is struggling. I am not buying the Texans yet and now Schaub is hurt. Bengals will not survive the stretch run...so, if my team is getting back to the Super Bowl, they are going to have to beat or outlast the Ravens. Ravens won a blow out and a close, come from behind road game against the Steelers. Do I think they have enough talent to win the AFC? Heck, ya. As a Steeler fan, I think to myself..."we have to contain Ray Rice, we have to contain Ray Rice"...but the guy is under-used. Why? Flacco had a nice drive to end that last game...but I would take that same scenario in a play-off game if it were offered....92 yds for a TD...and I would bet money. I don't think thats the Ravens formula for play-off win. They need a lead and a lot of Ray Rice. Both the Steelers and Ravens have flaws but in my opinion they are the two best teams in the AFC...and if coaching tips the scales in the Post Season Tourny...well, I like our chances. A gatorade bath in the AFC Championship game is appropriate...hope Tomlin ends up wet and cold.

**JeromeBettis63** · 11-15-2011, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by terps19

Ha... so no other Champ team has ever given a Gatorade bath to a coach during the season?

In my opinion you should worry about the Steelers end of season record and how it compares to the Ravens and not worry about a presser for the Ravens. Stir stir stir the pot.

I am not "worried' about it. I happen to think its a good thing for my team.

**JAB1985** · 11-15-2011, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by JeromeBettis63

JAB, I think your post makes my point.

First, I am not upset over it. I thought it was revealing of the Ravens mindset. Harbaugh is the one that creates the mindset and atmosphere that leads to that event happening. Second, the wins against the Steelers were big wins. I don't think the Ravens suck, I think they are a darn good football team. Heck, half the time I think my opinion of your team is higher than most of your own fans. That drive by Flacco and company was exactly the kind of thing it takes to win a championship. But those wins are gonna be fairly hollow if your team watches the Steelers advance further in the play-offs again. Maybe I will be dead wrong, maybe the Ravens will win it all this year...it wouldn't shock me...but gatorade baths at mid-season aren't helping them get there.

I dont think its a bad thing for a team to have fun and be emotional. It takes that to win sometimes. his fault isnt that he allows this team to get emotional, its that he cant wrangle them back in after such a performance. I guess you can say he shouldnt be allowed to let the game get so personal for them, but at the same time i think thats one of the reasons we beat the Steelers twice this year. They took it personal and the Steelers comments on Flacco helped fuel that. I said myself on here, if we beat the Steelers twice but miss the playoffs it didnt mean anything. I dont see that happening personally because I think were just a better team this year, but obviously Harbaugh has to bring in the reigns to make sure they focus after wins, whether they pour gatorade on him or not.

**JeromeBettis63** · 11-15-2011, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by JAB1985

I dont think its a bad thing for a team to have fun and be emotional. It takes that to win sometimes. his fault isnt that he allows this team to get emotional, its that he cant wrangle them back in after such a performance. I guess you can say he shouldnt be allowed to let the game get so personal for them, but at the same time i think thats one of the reasons we beat the Steelers twice this year. They took it personal and the Steelers comments on Flacco helped fuel that. I said myself on here, if we beat the Steelers twice but miss the playoffs it didnt mean anything. I dont see that happening personally because I think were just a better team this year, but obviously Harbaugh has to bring in the reigns to make sure they focus after wins, whether they pour gatorade on him or not.

You are right about the emotion not being a bad thing. But its up to a coach to know what works and doesn't work for his team. So far the evidence this season is that the Ravens have looked like a second tier team in their post-Steeler match-ups. We all know the talent is there, so what is it? Maybe, rather than dumping confetti and releasing balloons, this team needs to walk off the field with their heads held high, go to the mic and say, "That was a good win for us today, now we have to get ready for Seattle."

**JAB1985** · 11-15-2011, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by JeromeBettis63

You are right about the emotion not being a bad thing. But its up to a coach to know what works and doesn't work for his team. So far the evidence this season is that the Ravens have looked like a second tier team in their post-Steeler match-ups. We all know the talent is there, so what is it? Maybe, rather than dumping confetti and releasing balloons, this team needs to walk off the field with their heads held high, go to the mic and say, "That was a good win for us today, now we have to get ready for Seattle."

It worked against Pittsburgh. we needed that win. If the other option is to lose to Pitt and beat Seattle, Ill take the conference and division win everytime. We still have the inside track for home field advantage because of the wins against Pitt not our loss to Seattle. Not that the Seattle loss doesnt hurt us.

Before Pitt won their first SB with Roethlisberger they were every bit as emotional and wasteful with their Gatorade. A lot of that was for your monikers last season. your talking about the difference between a team that has won compared to a young team thats still hungry to win their first one. Could they act like theyve been there before? maybe, but they havent and thats why it matters so much for them. All of them.

I dont remember confetti and balloons in Heinz Field, but Id agree that might be a little excessive for a visiting team's win. then again they did think they already won with 2 minutes to go so it probably wasnt for us anyway.

**JeromeBettis63** · 11-15-2011, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by JAB1985

It worked against Pittsburgh. we needed that win. If the other option is to lose to Pitt and beat Seattle, Ill take the conference and division win everytime. We still have the inside track for home field advantage because of the wins against Pitt not our loss to Seattle. Not that the Seattle loss doesnt hurt us.

Before Pitt won their first SB with Roethlisberger they were every bit as emotional and wasteful with their Gatorade. A lot of that was for your monikers last season. your talking about the difference between a team that has won compared to a young team thats still hungry to win their first one. Could they act like theyve been there before? maybe, but they havent and thats why it matters so much for them. All of them.

I dont remember confetti and balloons in Heinz Field, but Id agree that might be a little excessive for a visiting team's win. then again they did think they already won with 2 minutes to go so it probably wasnt for us anyway.

Thats fine, you can have it,...and I will take a Bill Bellicheck, Joe Torre, Scotty Bowman, Tony Larrusa, Phil Jackson, Vince Lombardi, Chuck Noll, Mike Tomlin type team that takes a win in stride, moves forward and wins titles.

**ravensinva** · 11-15-2011, 12:33 PM

Reid was QB coach for Bret Favre and now called all they plays for eagles. Harbaugh is special team coach who contribute nothing to the Ravens.

**JAB1985** · 11-15-2011, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by JeromeBettis63

Thats fine, you can have it,...and I will take a Bill Bellicheck, Joe Torre, Scotty Bowman, Tony Larrusa, Phil Jackson, Vince Lombardi, Chuck Noll, Mike Tomlin type team that takes a win in stride, moves forward and wins titles.

Well thats where I agree with your argument. Moving forward is the problem. Right after the game Is the start of their day off though. They can start moving forward when theyre back watching game film.

Majority if not all of those coaches have multiple Rings. go back to their first wins and youll see every bit of what were talking about right here (minus the robot Bellicheck). If the Ravens win this year, and continue to act like pivotal regular season games are bigger victories than they are, Id completely agree with you. you have to start somewhere and you cant act like youve been there before if youve never been.

**Paintballguy** · 11-15-2011, 12:55 PM

Ray Rice fumbles the ball once in the Jax game for the first time in however many carries. (it was a lot of carries) Then, Harbaugh benches Rice.

Last week, David Reed, who has a history of fumbleitis, fumbles the kick off. Then, Harbaugh puts him right back out there again.

How does that make any sense? You bench your best offensive player that rarely fumbles, but you put a marginal player with a history of fumbling back out there to receive kicks.

**Iscull** · 11-15-2011, 01:03 PM

I don't understand all the hate for John Harbaugh. If we win, we credit all the players. If we lose, we blame all the coaches. I think we have a pretty good understanding of what happend in all of our losses.

Titans: Absolutely horrible gameplan and play all around. Secondary was torched. Foxworth showed he should be benched. He was later IR'ed.

Blame: Whole Team

Jaguars: Cam's worse playcalling game of the year. Also, offensive line's worst play of the year.

Blame: Cam and the O-Line.

Seahawks: I don't think I need to spell this one out. David Reed's 2 fumbles on KR's and unsportsmanlike conduct penalty really held us back on this one. Add that to the fact that the defense was trying to strip the ball every time instead of tackeling. Carr was abused. As for Cam's playcalling, I think he should have definitely utilized Rice more; however, the passing was definitely nessecary when your down double digits. A lot of dropped balls.

Blame: Hate to blame it on one guy, but David Reed really took that cake for this one.

Overall, our team plays significantly better with Grubbs in the lineup. I really expect for this team to win out with the way they're playing. I don't see how Harbs can take the heat for any of those games, I really don't.

**HoustonRaven** · 11-15-2011, 01:05 PM

Rice didn't get benched in the Jags game.

**Iscull** · 11-15-2011, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Coach speak

+1. Cam will be fired at the end of the year anyways. I hate to say it, but I really agreed with the playcalling. We were down by double digits and if we caught the passes that need to be caught, we win this game. The time of possesion battle really killed us on this one.

**Iscull** · 11-15-2011, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by JeromeBettis63

The Pats have no D and the Steelers found a way to frustrate them which I think they can duplicate. The Jets haven't regained last years level of play yet and Sanchez is struggling. I am not buying the Texans yet and now Schaub is hurt. Bengals will not survive the stretch run...so, if my team is getting back to the Super Bowl, they are going to have to beat or outlast the Ravens. Ravens won a blow out and a close, come from behind road game against the Steelers. Do I think they have enough talent to win the AFC? Heck, ya. As a Steeler fan, I think to myself..."we have to contain Ray Rice, we have to contain Ray Rice"...but the guy is under-used. Why? Flacco had a nice drive to end that last game...but I would take that same scenario in a play-off game if it were offered....92 yds for a TD...and I would bet money. I don't think thats the Ravens formula for play-off win. They need a lead and a lot of Ray Rice. Both the Steelers and Ravens have flaws but in my opinion they are the two best teams in the AFC...and if coaching tips the scales in the Post Season Tourny...well, I like our chances. A gatorade bath in the AFC Championship game is appropriate...hope Tomlin ends up wet and cold.

Sorry man, I have a feeling Pat's or Jet's will give you guys a run for your money come post-season. Pat's will figure it out on D like they played on Sunday Night and Jets always somehow manage to spoil someone. Keep in mind the Pat's played in your Den, which is one of the toughest places to play in the NFL and it was a really close game. I really think if you guys get the Wild Card and are forced to play in Foxborough, you lose that game.

Side Note: If we do end up making it to the AFC Title Game and it winds up in Bmore, no way we lose this game. I have a feeling Ray won't want his last game to be a loss in the playoffs.

**ActualSpamBot** · 11-15-2011, 01:11 PM

HR, you shouldn't let facts get in the way of a great story!

Personally I'm still waiting for Harbaugh to defend his decision to trade Ray Lewis to the Steelers for a pack of chewing gum and an autographed Terrible Towel! It's way easier to complain about the coaches when you can make up the bad stuff they do!