The John Harbaugh Debate Thread (Merged Threads)

[HoustonRaven]

WTH is a mini benching?!?!

[blah3]

WTH is a mini benching?!?!

That's where the 'special needs' players go when they are punished by the coach.

[ravensinva]

I don't understand all the hate for John Harbaugh. If we win, we credit all the players. If we lose, we blame all the coaches. I think we have a pretty good understanding of what happend in all of our losses.

Titans: Absolutely horrible gameplan and play all around. Secondary was torched. Foxworth showed he should be benched. He was later IR'ed.

Blame: Whole Team

Jaguars: Cam's worse playcalling game of the year. Also, offensive line's worst play of the year.

Blame: Cam and the O-Line.

Seahawks: I don't think I need to spell this one out. David Reed's 2 fumbles on KR's and unsportsmanlike conduct penalty really held us back on this one. Add that to the fact that the defense was trying to strip the ball every time instead of tackeling. Carr was abused. As for Cam's playcalling, I think he should have definitely utilized Rice more; however, the passing was definitely nessecary when your down double digits. A lot of dropped balls.

Blame: Hate to blame it on one guy, but David Reed really took that cake for this one.

Overall, our team plays significantly better with Grubbs in the lineup. I really expect for this team to win out with the way they're playing. I don't see how Harbs can take the heat for any of those games, I really don't.

Harbaugh was the one who hired Cameron and if not for Michigan, we're stuck with Mattison too.

[ravensinva]

Can you please substantiate this claim?


I mean, not only is it completely ABSURD, but you have no way of proving this.


Get a clue man.

Fine, I don't have proof that he does nothing for offense or defense. The only thing I can based this on is he spend 10 years as a special team coach and 1 year as a defense back coach. From what I've been read, he is not involve with defense or offense game planning.

[BIGBALL]

WTH is a mini benching?!?!

Oddly enough, they have these tiny little benches, and luckily Ray is small enough to sit on it without damaging it...

Sorry HR - couldn't resist!

[Paintballguy]

Revisionist history. Reed had never fumbled before the Steeler game. 34 kick returns, zero fumbles. So, any "history of fumbleitis" goes back an entire week. Period.

It's still history. If I get points on my license for speeding last week, I have a recent history of speeding. The fact that he fumbled last week against Pittsburgh should have been enough reason to pull him after he fumbled the first kickoff return.

So let me get this straight. You guys agree with Harbaugh putting Reed back out there to return kicks after the fumble? Also, you guys agree with sitting Ray Rice on 1st and 2nd down in favor of Ricky early in the game? Rice needs the ball early and often.

This is an unbelievably bad thread.

Ray was out of the game for FIVE whole plays after the fumble!

It's called substitution and they even do it in Madden 12 so I don't know why you've never heard of it.

Five plays is too many for him to be out, and I do know what a substitution is. k thanks.

[blah3]

Harbaugh was the one who hired Cameron and if not for Michigan, we're stuck with Mattison too.

Actually that was Ozzie who hired Cam.

[RavensNTerps]

It's still history. If I get points on my license for speeding last week, I have a recent history of speeding. The fact that he fumbled last week against Pittsburgh should have been enough reason to pull him after he fumbled the first kickoff return.

So let me get this straight. You guys agree with Harbaugh putting Reed back out there to return kicks after the fumble? Also, you guys agree with sitting Ray Rice on 1st and 2nd down in favor of Ricky early in the game? Rice needs the ball early and often.



Five plays is too many for him to be out, and I do know what a substitution is. k thanks. Do you even play sports or are you too fat to get off your couch?

Then by your logic, Ray Rice shouldn't have started the past couple games becaues of his history of fumbling starting in Jacksonville.

[Paintballguy]

Then by your logic, Ray Rice shouldn't have started the past couple games becaues of his history of fumbling starting in Jacksonville.

The difference is Ray Rice is your best player on offense, and David Reed is a marginal player that hasn't done much.

[ballhawk]

number one priority from this offseason was supposed to be fixing the running game. they upgraded the offensive line and signed the best blocking FB in the league, as well as signed ricky williams, for that express purpose.

from the "state of the ravens" press conference in january

OZZIE:

“From my perspective, and anytime you talk to a personnel guy, it’s always about: ‘We’re going to get better players.’ If I provide John with better players, his coaches with better players, then we’ll do better on Sundays. So, we can get better players.”

Ozzie did his job and brought in the talent, Bisciotti paid the bill.

HARBAUGH:

"If we run the ball better and we’re more physical, that opens a lot of possibilities from the passing game, play-calling, [and] gives guys a chance to make plays across the board. So, if I was going to say one thing, I’d say that would be the No. 1 thing we need to focus on going forward.”

The running game is part of the passing game, and the passing game is part of the running game. I don’t think we were as good in any area as we should’ve been. Our offensive line wasn’t as good as it should’ve been. [That also goes for] our quarterback, our tight ends, our wide receivers. And I look at it as being on us as coaches. That’s something that we’ve got to do a better job of moving the football and scoring points.

Harbaugh has failed to live up to his word. this team has completely abandoned the running game in the last month or so. Cam Cameron has gone absolutely pass-happy and Harbs has done absolutely NOTHING about it.

Last year they made the O-line coach a scapegoat (questionable) and let him take the fall. this year, Cameron will be the scapegoat (rightfully so) and he will take the fall.

Harbaugh needs to take the heat for the failures of this offense. He has just sat by and watched it go down the shitter. he was supposed to take a more active role with the offense this year. either he has or he hasn't, hard to tell, but either way, he has failed.

Time to put Harbaugh on notice.

[ActualSpamBot]

Also, you guys agree with sitting Ray Rice on 1st and 2nd down in favor of Ricky early in the game? Rice needs the ball early and often.

And sometimes the right move is to put in a change of pace back. Your willful refusal to acknowledge this basic football principle is baffling. It's also worth noting that several of those plays were pass plays and Ricky is a significantly better pass blocker than Ray.

Five plays is too many for him to be out, and I do know what a substitution is. k thanks.

I doubt that you do because you keep calling a substitution a benching.

[Paintballguy]

And sometimes the right move is to put in a change of pace back. Your willful refusal to acknowledge this basic football principle is baffling. It's also worth noting that several of those plays were pass plays and Ricky is a significantly better pass blocker than Ray.

I doubt that you do because you keep calling a substitution a benching.

I know how substitution works like I said before. So you agreed with how that game went? With Ray Rice only getting 8 rushing attempts? How is it a change of pace if there is no pace to change?

[CRZA938]

Hard to argue with you thus far, but I have to give Harbaugh to year end to pass judgement.

[RavensNTerps]

The difference is Ray Rice is your best player on offense, and David Reed is a marginal player that hasn't done much.

David Reed has had several big returns for us the last 2 years including one just last week. He's been by far our best kick returner since last year, when healthy.

[blah3]

I don't really know how much the improved the offensive line.
Plus Williams was brought in to save money from McGahee, not for the express purpose of improving the running game. I think most people would agree at this point in their careers McGahee is a better runner.

[Ibravenfan]

It was like 550 carry's without a fumble. did you ever think for a second that Ray gets hit pretty dang hard and rarely fumbles. That hit on that fumble may have been a tough hard hit and he may have needed a few reps to clear out the bells. Never know, his hand may have been hit, anything could have happened. The best part of that fumble is he eventually returned to the game.
You don't bench you best offensive weapon. But I do agree that a player that fumbles then causes a personal foul should not have been given the chance to fumble a second time.

[MattSG]

JAB, I think your post makes my point.

First, I am not upset over it. I thought it was revealing of the Ravens mindset. Harbaugh is the one that creates the mindset and atmosphere that leads to that event happening. Second, the wins against the Steelers were big wins. I don't think the Ravens suck, I think they are a darn good football team. Heck, half the time I think my opinion of your team is higher than most of your own fans. That drive by Flacco and company was exactly the kind of thing it takes to win a championship. But those wins are gonna be fairly hollow if your team watches the Steelers advance further in the play-offs again. Maybe I will be dead wrong, maybe the Ravens will win it all this year...it wouldn't shock me...but gatorade baths at mid-season aren't helping them get there.

How do you know why Harbaugh was given a gatorade bath? You have the belief that everything revolves around the Steelers. In my opinion you are being ignorant. In 2008, the Ravens gave C. Cameron a gatorade bath after the playoff win against the Dolphins. It was done for Cam, not to show up the Dolphins. There is a good chance they gave Harbaugh a gatorade shower because he hadn't gotten by the Steelers in a big game, and the media talked about it a lot. It would be for a personal reason, not to spite the opposing team. If the other team gets upset, screw them, it wasn't the intent.

As other posters have said, a lot of gatorade showers are done after regular season games. The two believed orgins of the gatorade shower are from regular season games.

Is there a problem with the Parcells led 86' Giants doing a gatorade bath after every single win that season?

Why would our wins be fairly hollow if only the Steelers make it further in the playoffs? Why is it just the Steelers? That is what it seems you are implying. I think this along with the crying over a gatorade shower are examples of you having sour grapes and rather than accept it, you want to try to agitate people.

[ballhawk]

I don't really know how much the improved the offensive line.
Plus Williams was brought in to save money from McGahee, not for the express purpose of improving the running game. I think most people would agree at this point in their careers McGahee is a better runner.

Mcgahee was a cap casualty. They couldn't afford him. Ozzie didn't have to sign Williams. He could have stuck with parmele and allen. Williams was signed to bolster the rushing attack, which hasn't happened.

[Paintballguy]

David Reed has had several big returns for us the last 2 years including one just last week. He's been by far our best kick returner since last year, when healthy.

And when he doesn't fumble 2 times and get a personal foul apparently.

[MattSG]

Thats fine, you can have it,...and I will take a Bill Bellicheck, Joe Torre, Scotty Bowman, Tony Larrusa, Phil Jackson, Vince Lombardi, Chuck Noll, Mike Tomlin type team that takes a win in stride, moves forward and wins titles.

Can you show us proof that none of these coaches showed some kind of emotinal outburst during a big win or their first championship? I find it hilarious that you include Tomlin in the list of coaches you mentioned.

I would never take Chuck Noll as my coach. The guy turned a blind eye to the steroid abuse by his own team. He didn't care aslong as he was winning. He accused other teams of being dirty when those teams stood up to his team. Noll is a shadey hypocrite, he fit right in with the Steelers organization.

I've tried to get Harbaugh's email address so I can send him an email staighting that he shouldn't get any more gatorade baths because it upsets an internet poster named JeromeBettis63 so much. lol