Draft Prospects

[leachisabeast]

I'm thinking Brewster or whomever will compete at LG, along with a later round draft pick. Until the following year they will slide over to C. Draft a LG or maybe a FA. Hopefully Reid could beat out McKinnie this year so we have some continuity and not making too many changes next year.

Brewster plays way too high to be a guard, I was a fan of Brewster before I watched more tape of him. I think he'd be a good back up and MAYBE a developmental center behind Birk who could eventually be groomed into a starting center, but honestly would much more prefer to draft Blake since he could probably start in his first season because of his extreme amount of strength.

Personally I think our first three rounds are going to be spent on ALL offense players, Paul Kruger and Pernell McPhee/Art Jones are going to be promoted to starters, and may even offer an upgrade over both players they are replacing. I really don't take anything Harbaugh says seriously, since it's like asking an FBI agent questions about how the FBI is ran, but he seems confident that Kruger can step up and be the starter. I think they WILL bring in a DE/OLB to compete with Kruger Kindle, and McAdoo, but it will likely be a 5th round prospect like the San Diego state guy.

I would be over the moon with Alshon in the second, however I don't see him falling that deep, I know everyone thinks he's sliding, but I think teams are going to look at the way he dominated some of the top corners that are in this draft and may even spend a late first round pick on him. Either way, there is a small chance he lasts longer than the mid second round. I mean if he is there in the mid second I'd be happy if they traded up to get him.

[JustaslowZ06]

Brewster plays way too high to be a guard, I was a fan of Brewster before I watched more tape of him. I think he'd be a good back up and MAYBE a developmental center behind Birk who could eventually be groomed into a starting center, but honestly would much more prefer to draft Blake since he could probably start in his first season because of his extreme amount of strength.

Personally I think our first three rounds are going to be spent on ALL offense players, Paul Kruger and Pernell McPhee/Art Jones are going to be promoted to starters, and may even offer an upgrade over both players they are replacing. I really don't take anything Harbaugh says seriously, since it's like asking an FBI agent questions about how the FBI is ran, but he seems confident that Kruger can step up and be the starter. I think they WILL bring in a DE/OLB to compete with Kruger Kindle, and McAdoo, but it will likely be a 5th round prospect like the San Diego state guy.

I would be over the moon with Alshon in the second, however I don't see him falling that deep, I know everyone thinks he's sliding, but I think teams are going to look at the way he dominated some of the top corners that are in this draft and may even spend a late first round pick on him. Either way, there is a small chance he lasts longer than the mid second round. I mean if he is there in the mid second I'd be happy if they traded up to get him.

Given what they said in the press conference I can see that. The whole wanting to start guys and get guys playing time before their final year of the rookie contract.

As for Brewster, Blake, or Konz I've only seen the "highlight" reels on youtube so dunno. But one of the 3 will be drafted by us, that much is pretty much assured. Where and when, who knows the Ravens big board is consistantly not what we think lol.

[Shas]

As for Brewster, Blake, or Konz I've only seen the "highlight" reels on youtube so dunno. But one of the 3 will be drafted by us, that much is pretty much assured. Where and when, who knows the Ravens big board is consistantly not what we think lol.

... or a lineman we're not even talking about. I keep reminding myself that the Ravens have a history of taking second-tier offensive tackles and turning them into guards. Ed Mulitalo and Marshal Yanda being the best examples. Oniel Cousins being less than best. Even Jon Ogden played guard for a year.

A guy I kinda like is Mitchell Schwartz from Cal. He gets a little overlooked playing LT in the same conference as Kahlil and Martin, but he's pretty versatile and did well at the Senior Bowl. Smart kid who could make the switch the guard mentally at least.

Every time I see Konz on tape I scratch my head about why he's ranked so highly. He appears to be a nice drive blocker, and had a lot opportunity to do that at Wisconsin. But in the passing game he frankly looked week. He spent a ton of time on the ground when I watched some highlight tape. Actually, I was looking at a Nick Toon highlight tape, because I wanted to get a fix on what I thought of him. (BTW, I think he plays a lot smaller than his 6'2" frame. He is a possession/slot guy in my eyes).

Anyway, because it was tape for a receiver, I got to see Konz in pass blocking situations a lot, which isn't Wisconsin's strength, per se. Konz frankly looked below average to me. But hey, what can you really learn with a couple youtube videos? To my eye, Zeitler was more impressive.

[GOTA]

Anyway, because it was tape for a receiver, I got to see Konz in pass blocking situations a lot, which isn't Wisconsin's strength, per se. Konz frankly looked below average to me. But hey, what can you really learn with a couple youtube videos? To my eye, Zeitler was more impressive.

My friend who I go to for all my Big 10 info says the exact same thing. He says that Konz is going to really struggle against big physical defensive tackles. Zeitler he thinks is going to be a very good pro. He's not quick but uses perfect technique and is very powerful. Sounds a lot like Yanda to me.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Every time I see Konz on tape I scratch my head about why he's ranked so highly. He appears to be a nice drive blocker, and had a lot opportunity to do that at Wisconsin. But in the passing game he frankly looked week. He spent a ton of time on the ground when I watched some highlight tape. Actually, I was looking at a Nick Toon highlight tape, because I wanted to get a fix on what I thought of him. (BTW, I think he plays a lot smaller than his 6'2" frame. He is a possession/slot guy in my eyes).

Anyway, because it was tape for a receiver, I got to see Konz in pass blocking situations a lot, which isn't Wisconsin's strength, per se. Konz frankly looked below average to me. But hey, what can you really learn with a couple youtube videos? To my eye, Zeitler was more impressive.

I was on this train about a month ago...I think I'd rather take someone else or trade back than to take Konz in the first...and try to get Zeitler in the second (or a guy like Blake in the 3rd or 4th) and transition him to center.

I mean Konz is a nice player, but he is not a first round talent IMHO.

[Thrall]

I was on this train about a month ago...I think I'd rather take someone else or trade back than to take Konz in the first...and try to get Zeitler in the second (or a guy like Blake in the 3rd or 4th) and transition him to center.

I mean Konz is a nice player, but he is not a first round talent IMHO.

Add me to this camp. I much prefer Zeitler over Konz. I don't think Konz has the strength to play in the AFCN.

[bmorecareful]

Add me to this camp. I much prefer Zeitler over Konz. I don't think Konz has the strength to play in the AFCN.

Wow. You guys really put a lot of stock in how many times a guy can bench 225 lbs at the Combine, huh? Guys, throw that nonsense out the window. First of all, Konz had a rotator cuff injury at the Combine, which makes his bad bench no surprise. Furthermore, there's no evidence that the bench performance and functional football strength are linked.

You guys remember J.D. Walton, center out of Baylor? He posted 34 reps in 2010 and has been one of the worst centers in the league over the past 2 years. He specializes in getting run over by DTs. If only they were to lay flat over top of him while he laid down, I'm sure he could push them right out of the way.

Konz is the best center in this class and one of the best offensive linemen in this class. Go back and watch some of his tape. Not sure what some of you are seeing, but I saw him crush Jerel Worthy of Michigan State when they played last season, repeatedly moving him out of the way in the run game and stonewalling him in the pass game. He did that to a lot of high-caliber DTs last year and the team wasn't the same when he missed games late in the year.

I utterly reject the fabricated notions that Konz is some sort of dainty finesse player unworthy of a 1st round pick. The tape shows that he was the best player on the best OL in the country last year and that's what smart teams will draft him on. There is a reason that most teams have had their draft boards done since February. This is Misinformation Season, so don't believe everything you hear.

[leachisabeast]

Peter Konz benched 24 at his pro day, are we forgetting that Marshal Yanda benched for 23 times back in 07? Look at how that turned out, we now of arguably the best right guard in football. I watch a lot of Wisconsin games, and Konz is a lot better than what some of you guys are saying he is. IMO a first round talent who will slide to the mid second round because of the position he plays. To say he isn't strong enough to play in the AFC N is beyond stupid too, he is a powerful run blocker who is probably stronger than Maukrice Pouncey (who is undersized) Matt Birk, and Kyle Cook.

[Shas]

Wow. You guys really put a lot of stock in how many times a guy can bench 225 lbs at the Combine, huh? ... Go back and watch some of his tape. Not sure what some of you are seeing, but I saw him crush Jerel Worthy of Michigan State when they played last season, repeatedly moving him out of the way in the run game and stonewalling him in the pass game.

I'm not putting any stock in combine numbers. I know he was hurt. Although that is actually a knock on him. DeCosta keeps talking about him being hurt a lot. Throwing people off the scent? Don't know.

My comments were based on trying to take a look at a few posted videos of Wisconsin games. Here's the one that is a Nick Toon highlight (frankly, not sure all the "positive" plays look positive to me for him, either). If you look at 66 I don't think you see a guy who does a great job at the second level and I see him on the ground a bit too much for my liking when going against bigger opponents.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Wow. You guys really put a lot of stock in how many times a guy can bench 225 lbs at the Combine, huh? Guys, throw that nonsense out the window. First of all, Konz had a rotator cuff injury at the Combine, which makes his bad bench no surprise. Furthermore, there's no evidence that the bench performance and functional football strength are linked.

You guys remember J.D. Walton, center out of Baylor? He posted 34 reps in 2010 and has been one of the worst centers in the league over the past 2 years. He specializes in getting run over by DTs. If only they were to lay flat over top of him while he laid down, I'm sure he could push them right out of the way.

Konz is the best center in this class and one of the best offensive linemen in this class. Go back and watch some of his tape. Not sure what some of you are seeing, but I saw him crush Jerel Worthy of Michigan State when they played last season, repeatedly moving him out of the way in the run game and stonewalling him in the pass game. He did that to a lot of high-caliber DTs last year and the team wasn't the same when he missed games late in the year.

I utterly reject the fabricated notions that Konz is some sort of dainty finesse player unworthy of a 1st round pick. The tape shows that he was the best player on the best OL in the country last year and that's what smart teams will draft him on. There is a reason that most teams have had their draft boards done since February. This is Misinformation Season, so don't believe everything you hear.

Yeah...maybe you need to read those posts again...nobody mentioned anything about his bench press numbers.

Granted, I have not watched ton of tape of him, but I've watched enough to not be overly impressed. Again, he is a good player...nobody is saying that he won't be a good pro, but IMHO, he is not a first round talent.

BTW...the benchpress is the most worthless "drill" out there IMHO...it's the only drill that does not replicate a football body position or move. I could care less how much he benches.

[leachisabeast]

I'm not putting any stock in combine numbers. I know he was hurt. Although that is actually a knock on him. DeCosta keeps talking about him being hurt a lot. Throwing people off the scent? Don't know.

My comments were based on trying to take a look at a few posted videos of Wisconsin games. Here's the one that is a Nick Toon highlight (frankly, not sure all the "positive" plays look positive to me for him, either). If you look at 66 I don't think you see a guy who does a great job at the second level and I see him on the ground a bit too much for my liking when going against bigger opponents.

There isn't anything really bad about those clips of him. He looks bad in 3 or 4 plays, but what you are forgetting is that he falls to the ground after pancaking players in some of those players, which is a common trait for many road graders.

[blah3]

There isn't anything really bad about those clips of him. He looks bad in 3 or 4 plays, but what you are forgetting is that he falls to the ground after pancaking players in some of those players, which is a common trait for many road graders.

I don't see anything bad of Konz in that clip either.
Is he even playing in the Michigan game?

[Shas]

It's not a question of looking to call the guy "bad." He's projected as a late first early second round player. I'm sure he deserves that sort of rating. I'm just saying that when people start saying HE IS THE GUY we should use with our 29th pick, I expect to be able to look at him on film and go, wow, yep, he's a guy I want. I don't. I look at him and think, meh, looks good sometimes, but don't see much to love. I've seen him drive block, for sure, although I'm not sure how that translates against NFL DTs. (which is why so many teams are moving to zone blocking). Find the Nebraska clip. First play they show is him botching a zone blitz and allowing a guy to run right past him to the QB. I don't know. We're talking about the team's first overall pick. I guess I expected to see more.

(Not, he was hurt for the Michigan game).

[leachisabeast]

I don't see anything bad of Konz in that clip either.
Is he even playing in the Michigan game?

It seems no one is even trying to run down his channel. The Wisconsin line do a great job as a group, aswell as having great individuals such as Zeitler and Konz. They are the Houston Texans offensive line of college football.

[JAB1985]

If this draft isnt as weak as it is, Konz would be more likely a late 2nd round prospect than a late 1st. With that said you have to draft whats available. I dont think hes worthy of a first but if hes there and nobody else is and we cant trade back i wont be upset with the pick. If we dont attempt to trade back and we pick him, id be a little surprised but overall pretty apathetic.

[Ravenswintitle]

I'd be pretty disappointed if they take Konz with their first pick as it currently stands

[bmorecareful]

Yeah...maybe you need to read those posts again...nobody mentioned anything about his bench press numbers.

Granted, I have not watched ton of tape of him, but I've watched enough to not be overly impressed. Again, he is a good player...nobody is saying that he won't be a good pro, but IMHO, he is not a first round talent.

BTW...the benchpress is the most worthless "drill" out there IMHO...it's the only drill that does not replicate a football body position or move. I could care less how much he benches.

I was specifically responding to the criticism that Konz "isn't strong enough to play in the AFC North." The only possible reason anybody would think that is based on his bad bench press, considering the guy routinely pancaked 1st and 2nd round DT prospects his entire career. Maybe you don't put stock in the bench press, and I agree 100% with you as I said, but a lot of people foolishly do.

The clip that was posted might as well be a Konz highlight reel. In 90% of the plays he is standing up rushers in pass pro and moving guys around in the run game. In most of those particular clips no, Konz was not getting out to the 2nd level as much, but that was because they asked him to solo block more in those games, from what I can see. Wisconsin used more zone principles this year, and Konz was very effective as a 2nd level blocker when they asked him to get out there and do it.

I have to question people's objectivity when they look at 45 good plays and 5 bad ones and say "meh." Are you guys just not excited about taking a center with our #1 pick? If so, that's not unreasonable, it's not a splashy pick at all. But if you expect a guy to be Nick Mangold, is he worth a 1st? Of course he is--probably even worth a top 10 pick with that kind of performance. Even if you expect a guy to be a notch under that, the Pouncey brothers both went in the top 20 picks and I rank both of them below Konz as prospects.

Immediately following the end of the college season I put together a list of my top 40 players in the draft. Konz was #24 and I don't move anybody in and out after that without a very, very good reason. The Combine, Pro Day, etc. only help me rearrange the top 40 a little bit, at most. I'm no expert, just an amateur, but I know most NFL FOs follow the same process.

I find it ridiculous that McShay and Mayock will hear a story that a guy stubbed his toe in a drill and drop him from #20 to #40. They do that kind of crap to keep up with the crowd and be controversial, and it's silly. This is what I think is happening to guys like Konz, he's one of the best OL in the country on New Year's Day, but come April 13th he's a late 2nd round pick. Just doesn't match up to me.

[leachisabeast]

It's not a question of looking to call the guy "bad." He's projected as a late first early second round player. I'm sure he deserves that sort of rating. I'm just saying that when people start saying HE IS THE GUY we should use with our 29th pick, I expect to be able to look at him on film and go, wow, yep, he's a guy I want. I don't. I look at him and think, meh, looks good sometimes, but don't see much to love. I've seen him drive block, for sure, although I'm not sure how that translates against NFL DTs. (which is why so many teams are moving to zone blocking). Find the Nebraska clip. First play they show is him botching a zone blitz and allowing a guy to run right past him to the QB. I don't know. We're talking about the team's first overall pick. I guess I expected to see more.

(Not, he was hurt for the Michigan game).

Aw comon, what do you want from a centers film tape on youtube? Let's go back to Mangold or Alex Mack, did they look any different on youtube clips? Not really. They are now both top centers in the league, IMO Mack is currently the 3rd best center in the NFL, and Mangold arguably the best along side Chris Myers. Am I saying Konz is going to be that good? No, I'm not saying anything, you can never just be sure about how good any college prospect is going to be, even Andrew Luck. But I watch Wisconsin a lot, and I always watch offensive linemen NFL prospects carefully every year, and I can tell you Konz would be worth a first round pick. He makes the protection calls for the best offensive line in football, I rarely ever see him get knocked back or dominated by other defensive linemen prospects, he helped pave way to average over 200 rushing yards a game blasting defenders out of the way and creating holes. At 6'5 and 315 lbs he has rare size for a center, and could help fix our short yard rushing problems on 3rd downs which our line sucked at last season.

[leachisabeast]

If this draft isnt as weak as it is, Konz would be more likely a late 2nd round prospect than a late 1st. With that said you have to draft whats available. I dont think hes worthy of a first but if hes there and nobody else is and we cant trade back i wont be upset with the pick. If we dont attempt to trade back and we pick him, id be a little surprised but overall pretty apathetic.

I disagree with that. I can't think of any center prospects since Alex Mack who looked more impressive on film. He is better than both the Pouncey brothers where coming out of college, and both where drafted in the first round, much higher than #29 too. Those two drafts where also much deeper than this draft.

[Shas]

Aw comon, what do you want from a centers film tape on youtube? Let's go back to Mangold or Alex Mack, did they look any different on youtube clips? Not really.

Uh, yes they did. I can recall thinking Mack looked very dominant. Here is some tape on him before the Browns drafted him. I see here what I don't see in Konz. A guy who gets low, finishes strong and is excellent at the second level. Konz does a few things well head up, but I don't think he looks like nearly the player I saw in Mack when I looked at admittedly very little film.



Again, I'm just going on gut and my gut says Konz doesn't jump out as a premium player the Ravens should be particularly eager to grab at 29. If he's the best guy there, well, okay, but I think I'll be disappointed compared to some other potential picks, or the possibility of trading back.

By the way, in 2009 the Browns traded back three times to take Mack at 21 (picking up three veterans, a second, and a sixth rounder). The Bills took Eric Woods as the second center off the board at 28. I don't think Konz is nearly in Mack's class.