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  1. #13
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    Re: Justin Bannan 9/24/06



    Bannan is going to be around atleast until his contract expires. However I doubt he gets an extension when his contract expires.

    I think it would be hard for Filmstudy to compile YPP type stats for the OL since the most of the OL players are on the field for the entire game, barring injury.

    Keep up the good work Filmstudy! Always a good read!
    "This year, our attitude when we’re on the field is we’re attacking, we want to put points on the board and then let our defense pin their ears back and have at it."
    -Mark Clayton




  2. #14

    Re: Justin Bannan 9/24/06

    Quote Originally Posted by Filmstudy View Post
    Hey ExiledRaven, explain to me a little better what it is you'd like checked. You were asking who he replaced and who replaced him? That's sort of the whole comparison. Bannan has the aggregate stats for his defensive plays, and I have the stats for each other heavy, both for each game and the season.

    Anyway, let me know what you're looking for and I may well have it.
    I guess I mean side for side. ie, your stats for say Ngata, Pryce, Edwards, Gregg side by side just to compare.

    Maybe even compare down situations: for example compare who played RDE on 1st down, 2nd and long, 2nd and med/short, 3rd and long, 3rd and short.

    Who knows, but whatever you do is great, it's a good read.




  3. #15
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    Re: Justin Bannan 9/24/06

    ExiledRaven I don't keep position (LDE, RDE, etc.) where the heavy lined up on my spreadsheet, merely that they were onthe field. With the pre-snap movement the Ravens have, it would be very difficult.

    I have done some combination analysis, particularly with Gregg and Ngata. I found it very illuminating, but if you think Kelly Gregg got screwed out of the Pro Bowl, you would not.

    Lance, I'd certainly agree that Bannan is our 3rd best DT now, particularly with Franklin gone and Edwards looking like he'll be moving back from primarily DE to primarily DT this season. I simply hope he can contribute at a level substantially higher than last year. Since you have the recordings, can you do just 1 of those games? Pick one where Bannan just had 10 or so plays if need be (like the 12 at Cleveland). I want to see if folks are either seeing or looking for something different on a play-by-play basis.

    Ravennurse, we'll break down some of those rookies as the season progresses.
    Last edited by Filmstudy; 06-14-2007 at 07:11 PM.




  4. #16

    Re: Justin Bannan 9/24/06

    Quote Originally Posted by Filmstudy View Post
    Lance, I'd certainly agree that Bannan is our 3rd best DT now, particularly with Franklin gone and Edwards looking like he'll be moving back from primarily DE to primarily DT this season. I simply hope he can contribute at a level substantially higher than last year. Since you have the recordings, can you do just 1 of those games? Pick one where Bannan just had 10 or so plays if need be (like the 12 at Cleveland). I want to see if folks are either seeing or looking for something different on a play-by-play basis.
    I'll try. It's just tough to find time in the day (it would prolly take 60-90 minutes, i imagine; b/w finding all the plays he was in, analyzing them, & taking the notes). But again, I'll try. It'll prolly be SD, Atl, or Pitt. I don't have a ton going on tomorrow, and can try to do it.




  5. #17
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    Re: Justin Bannan 9/24/06

    The exact times of the plays from the Cleveland game is in my post, but if you want to do 1 of the 3 games you mentioned, he had 32 plays vs. SD, 17 vs. Atlanta, and 2 only before the injury vs. Pitt at home ended his season.




  6. #18

    Re: Justin Bannan 9/24/06

    Quote Originally Posted by Filmstudy View Post
    The exact times of the plays from the Cleveland game is in my post, but if you want to do 1 of the 3 games you mentioned, he had 32 plays vs. SD, 17 vs. Atlanta, and 2 only before the injury vs. Pitt at home ended his season.
    I'll prolly do the Cleveland game instead, since you have the times listed. I'd actually thought you wanted me to do a different game, but i'll do cleveland if i've got the time tomorrow.




  7. #19

    Re: Justin Bannan 9/24/06

    This is my first time doing this, so bear with me. I was mainly looking at the DTs & comparing them. I was comparing their explosion off the ball on every play (OTB: Off The Ball), and their pressure on passing plays (PRESSURE). Also, I put asterisks next to the plays, where I felt that Bannan was the most effective DT.



    ***Q1 1/10 Clv 14 0:27
    RDE. 5 Man rush (3 DLinemen & 2 LBs). Bannan was doubled, but still got a good push. Of the 3 linemen, Bannan got the most push, followed by Franklin (he got a substantially better push than gregg, who was singled up on the RT).

    Result: It was a short drop by Frye and a he released the ball quickly, negating any pressure on the play. Complete to Winslow for 11 yards.

    OTB:
    Franklin
    Bannan
    Gregg

    PRESSURE:
    Bannan
    Franklin
    Gregg



    Q2 1/10 Clv 13 15:00
    LDE. 3-4 Alignment (Bannan--Gregg--Franklin), With Suggs blitzing from the right (4-man rush). Bannan was singled up on the RT. Didn't get much pressure, as he was fanned outside. (NOTE: Gregg got good pressure up the middle).

    Result: Again, it was a rather quick release, thus any pressure wasn't much of an issue for Frye. Complete to Edwards for 12 yards.

    OTB:
    Bannan
    Franklin
    Gregg

    PRESSURE:
    Gregg
    Bannan
    Franklin




    Q2 1/10 Clv 25 14:34
    RDE. 3-4 Alignment (Suggs--Gregg--Bannan). Bannan was quick off the ball, but was immediately cut-block to his knees. Got right back up, and chased after the play, jumping on the pile (but Bannan was not much of a factor in the play).

    Result: Gain of 3 up the middle

    OTB:
    Bannan
    Gregg




    Q2 2/7 Clv 28 13:58
    RDE. 3-4 (Suggs--Gregg--Bannan), with Scott blitzing behind a stunting Suggs. 4-man rush. Bannan chipped from LG to LT. Began to get a good push toward the QB, on the LT. But Frye got rid of the ball. The chip on Bannan did give Frye a good throwing lane.

    Result: Complete to Northcut for 27 yards (very good run after the catch).

    OTB:
    Gregg
    Bannan

    PRESSURE: Both Gregg & Bannan got decent pushes toward the QB
    Gregg
    Bannan




    ***Q2 1/10 Clv 26 3:41
    LDE. 3-4 (Bannan--Franklin--Gregg). Bannan was initially doubled by the RG & RT. Both released, to reach the next level. Bannan made a nice play once they released, pursuing down the line of scrimmage to make a nice hit on the ball carrier.

    Result: Rush up the middle, for gain of 1

    OTB:
    Franklin
    Bannan
    Gregg

    NOTE: the difference in their explosion off the ball, was minimal on this play




    Q2 2/9 Clv 27 2:59
    LDE. 5-man rush (3 down linemen, blitzed 2 up the middle). The rush failed to get to Frye, and Bannan was easily handled MTM by the RT. He didn't really have any impact on play.

    Result: 3 step drop, quick release, pass was complete for 8 yards to Edwards.

    OTB:
    Franklin
    Gregg
    Bannan


    PRESSURE: Franklin got a decent push, but Gregg nor Bannan got one.
    Franklin
    Gregg & Bannan were about equal




    ***Q2 3/1 Clv 35 2:35
    Weird play to analyze. The whole 'D' was in disarray. It was a run to the right side. Bannan fought off 2 blockers & was the only lineman to not get knocked off his feet. Made the tackle, after a gain of 2, but it was still enough for the first down.

    Result: 2 yard run, first down

    OTB: no idea






    Q2 1/Goal Bal 1 0:29
    Goalline defense, featuring 4 big guys (Bannan, Gregg, Franklin, and Ngata). All were forced to play the run (since the ball was at the 1), and all got very low at the snap (submarining), attempting to get the penetration. Since it was a pass, they were all kinda screwed over & the OLinemen simply pushed them to the ground. None of the Dlinemen, including Bannan, were able to get back up in time to stop Frye from scrambling up the middle for a TD.

    Result: TD

    OTB: about equal, since they were all pushed to the ground at the snap.





    Q4 1/10 Clv 20 14:56
    LDE. 5-Man rush (3DTs, 2 LBs up the gut). Bannan took on a double-team, which helped the blitzers get pressure.

    Result: Frye had to get rid of it quickly, and threw incomplete.

    OTB:
    Bannan
    Ngata
    Gregg

    PRESSURE: overall, not much by the DTS
    Bannan
    Ngata
    Gregg




    Q4 2/10 Clv 20 14:53
    RDT. 4-man rush. Bannan was pushed to the ground by the RT.

    Result: Good pressure on the right side by Suggs & Scott forced an incomplete pass.

    OTB:
    Gregg & Bannan

    PRESSURE:
    Gregg & Bannan were equally ineffective (Bannan was pushed to the ground. Gregg was handled easily by the LG & got no penetration)




    ***Q4 1/10 Bal 34 7:42
    RDT, next to Gregg, who was LDT (Only 2 DTs in the game). Handoff to Wright. Bannan exploded into the LT nicely, and fought off the block. He got a hand on Wright, slowing him down before Lewis, Landry, and JJ swarmed to make the tackle.

    OTB:
    Bannan
    Gregg





    ***Q4 2/7 Bal 31 7:01
    LDT. 5-man rush. 3 Down linemen (Bannan--Gregg--Ngata) & 2 blitzing LBs. Bannan was doubled by the RT and RG, and taken out of play. But Thomas & Scott used that double-team, to get a free run at the QB, deflecting the pass.

    Result: Scott deflected pass, incomplete

    OTB:
    Bannan
    Ngata
    Gregg

    Pressure: all 3 were ineffective rushing the QB


    **********************************************************
    SUMMARY
    *********************************************************T
    Here are the averages for Gregg's & Bannan's explosion off the ball & pressure on passes (these are only for the plays in which Bannan was in the game. Also, i didn't calculate Franklin's or Ngata's since they were only in on a couple plays). The numbers were simply calculated by comparisions (i.e., if he was the fastest off the snap, he got a 1; second fastest, he got a 2, etc. That said, if they were both equally ineffective, I'd give them a 3). Either way, the lower the better.

    Bannan
    OTB (10 plays) - 1.5
    PRESSURE (7 plays) - 2.29


    Gregg
    OTB (10 plays) - 2.3
    PRESSURE (7 plays) - 2.43

    12 total plays: 5.7 YPP (although i thought the number was a bit misleading. 50 of those yards came on 3 successive passes, in which Bannan really didn't do anything wrong. He had a good push toward the QB on 2 of them, but Frye was delivering the ball very quickly & on target. A missed tackle in the secondary also turned into a 27 yard gain).

    - 5 rushes, 10 yards (2.0 yds/carry)
    - 7 passes, 58 yards (8.286 yds/pass)



    The GOOD: I thought he played a solid game. Of the 12 plays he was in, he was the most effective DT (IMO) 5 out of 12 plays. His pass-rush was rather consistent. And his quickness off the ball was considerably better than both Gregg & Ngata (he was as quick or quicker off the ball, than Ngata & Gregg in 9 of the 11 plays where I could judge that). The lack of sacks while he was in cannot be completely attributed to him (he was as at the very least, just as effective a pass-rusher, as was Gregg or Ngata). He fought hard & made some nice plays against the run. He also played to the whistle on every play.


    The BAD: Got pushed to the ground too often. Does not maintain as strong a base as the other DTs against the run (though he did make some nice plays in the game). Doesn't get his hands up on passes.


    So overall, he looked as quick, if not quicker, than the other DTs. He also rushed the passer rather effectively (though the sack results don't show). He hustles every play. He got handled by some bigger blockers too easily at times & can take himself out of plays. He didn't play with as much leverage or maintain as strong a base as the other DTs. Doesn't put his hands up enough on passes.
    Last edited by lance1086; 06-15-2007 at 01:47 PM.




  8. #20
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    Re: Justin Bannan 9/24/06

    This is good Lance. For starters, you added the speed off the snap, which is something some folks should want to know.

    The description of the plays we have is very similar, with the only difference I can see coming in our assessment of pressure provided by Bannan. I think of the pocket as an imaginary arc or parabola around the QB. The OL's job is to keep the DL's out of that either by holding tight to a point perhaps 2-3 yards behind the LoS in the middle and also using lateral push on the side to as you say "fan out" the edge rushers. Bannan did not personally penetrate the pocket on any play, although there were some quick passes there.

    He's a player that is fun to watch for the effort he puts out, and he's playing with the considerable disadvantage that he usually replaces a great player when he runs on the field.

    I look forward to more of these sorts of analyses for the preseason.




  9. #21
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    Re: Justin Bannan 9/24/06

    This is good Lance. For starters, you added the speed off the snap, which is something some folks should want to know.

    The description of the plays we have is very similar, with the only difference I can see coming in our assessment of pressure provided by Bannan. I think of the pocket as an imaginary arc or parabola around the QB. The OL's job is to keep the DL's out of that either by holding tight to a point perhaps 2-3 yards behind the LoS in the middle and also using lateral push on the side to as you say "fan out" the edge rushers. Bannan did not personally penetrate the pocket on any play, although there were some quick passes there.

    He's a player that is fun to watch for the effort he puts out, and he's playing with the considerable disadvantage that he usually replaces a great player when he runs on the field.

    I look forward to more of these sorts of analyses for the preseason.




  10. #22

    Re: Justin Bannan 9/24/06

    I don't have any old games to re-watch, so I have to view what is pointed out by others at this point. What it appears is that Bannan was by a wide margin in either direction our 3rd best DT last year. Ngata and Gregg seperated themselves, but at the same time, Bannan seems to have seperated from Aubrayo and Dwan. Thus, IMO, unless he does improve his penetration on passing downs, which could certainly happen based on his first step, then he will be a short timer here in Baltimore. Now if he can perfect some swin moves and can fish his way into the backfield more often, then he is a valuable cog for this team. It also does appear that he needs to work on gettign lower when defending the run, as it has been pointed out he was getting pancaked back on to his "tookis"(phonics). At minimum, he provides an adequate hevy to allow the top two to catch a breather from time to time. We should have drafted another rotational guy this year, I suppose we now will next year.




  11. #23

    Re: Justin Bannan 9/24/06

    Quote Originally Posted by Filmstudy View Post
    The description of the plays we have is very similar, with the only difference I can see coming in our assessment of pressure provided by Bannan. I think of the pocket as an imaginary arc or parabola around the QB. The OL's job is to keep the DL's out of that either by holding tight to a point perhaps 2-3 yards behind the LoS in the middle and also using lateral push on the side to as you say "fan out" the edge rushers. Bannan did not personally penetrate the pocket on any play, although there were some quick passes there.
    Well, the "pressure" was a very comparative analysis. In that, if his pass-rush was substantially better than the other DTs on that play, I'd call it a good pass rush (even if the rush wasn't overly effective). I was just trying to see if his pass-rush was any worse than the other DTs (although i ended up only comparing him to Gregg in that aspect, due to number of plays). And in the handful of plays that I looked at, Bannan's rush wasn't any worse (in fact, in my oppinion it was slightly better; though, neither's pass-rush was particularly effective).
    Last edited by lance1086; 06-16-2007 at 04:51 PM.




  12. #24

    Re: Justin Bannan 9/24/06

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    I don't have any old games to re-watch, so I have to view what is pointed out by others at this point. What it appears is that Bannan was by a wide margin in either direction our 3rd best DT last year. Ngata and Gregg seperated themselves, but at the same time, Bannan seems to have seperated from Aubrayo and Dwan. Thus, IMO, unless he does improve his penetration on passing downs, which could certainly happen based on his first step, then he will be a short timer here in Baltimore. Now if he can perfect some swin moves and can fish his way into the backfield more often, then he is a valuable cog for this team. It also does appear that he needs to work on gettign lower when defending the run, as it has been pointed out he was getting pancaked back on to his "tookis"(phonics). At minimum, he provides an adequate hevy to allow the top two to catch a breather from time to time. We should have drafted another rotational guy this year, I suppose we now will next year.
    Jonboy, here are the 12 plays of Bannan from the Cleveland game. Quality is kinda low, but take a look at it if you want: http://files.filefront.com//;7803196;;/




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