Best place to find defensive statistics? Beyond the sacks/ints

**landspeed** · 12-01-2011, 02:34 PM

Some dude is trying to argue with me that Von Miller is better than Terrell Suggs this year. I need to put him in his place. He wont take the fact that miller has less INTs and FF's.

I need individual detailed statistics. Thanks

**Ravenswintitle** · 12-01-2011, 02:36 PM

If it's this year alone I think you'll lose that argument - Miller is on fire. On my home PC I have a link to a site that's nothing but data slice/dice; if someone doesn't respond with the link I'll add it tomorrow.

**Justlovemybirds** · 12-01-2011, 02:36 PM

Weeeeelll PFF believes that Miller should be a lock for DROY and at least in the running for DPOY

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog...-than-the-roy/

Suggs wins in the versatility department though as he operates out of the 3-4 and 4-3 as the hybrid player and is probably a better cover LB than Miller.

**LukeDaniel** · 12-01-2011, 02:50 PM

www.advancednflstats.com

It's relatively close between Suggs and Miller in Positive Win Probability.

Suggs leads all NFL defensive players with a +1.99 WPA. D'Qwell Jackson is 2nd with a 1.74. Miller is a very close 3rd at 1.72.

In Expected Points Added, it's not really that close. Suggs is running away with it in comparison to Miller. Suggs's defensive efforts this year have saved the Ravens 65.4 points through 11 games while Miller has saved the Broncos 47.4. Not much of a comparison there.

In fact, the only player who is even within shouting distance of Suggs is Jared Allen. He has a +EPA of 60.2 Nobody else has an EPA above 50. This isn't bashing Miller at all. His 47.4 EPA is fourth in all of football behind Sizzle, Mullet Man, and Willis.

He's having arguably the best season EVER by a rookie on either side of the ball. He's just not at Suggs' level right now. Outside of Allen, nobody is.

**LukeDaniel** · 12-01-2011, 02:53 PM

Coincidentally, for those of you who busted on me or sneered when I listed Kam Chancellor in my "honorable mention" category as one of the top 15 defensive players in the NFL, I'd like to direct you to his 1.54 WPA (next safety is at 1.25) and his 38.0 EPA (next safety is 32.9). For this season alone, he's light years ahead of every other safety out there.

**landspeed** · 12-01-2011, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

If it's this year alone I think you'll lose that argument - Miller is on fire. On my home PC I have a link to a site that's nothing but data slice/dice; if someone doesn't respond with the link I'll add it tomorrow.

I agree with him that Miller is probably the best rookie in the past 15 years outside of randy moss/suh(who has fell off tremendously in production this year).

However. I really cannot agree that Miller has that great of an impact over Suggs.

**landspeed** · 12-01-2011, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by LukeDaniel

www.advancednflstats.com

It's relatively close between Suggs and Miller in Positive Win Probability.

Suggs leads all NFL defensive players with a +1.99 WPA. D'Qwell Jackson is 2nd with a 1.74. Miller is a very close 3rd at 1.72.

In Expected Points Added, it's not really that close. Suggs is running away with it in comparison to Miller. Suggs's defensive efforts this year have saved the Ravens 65.4 points through 11 games while Miller has saved the Broncos 47.4. Not much of a comparison there.

In fact, the only player who is even within shouting distance of Suggs is Jared Allen. He has a +EPA of 60.2 Nobody else has an EPA above 50. This isn't bashing Miller at all. His 47.4 EPA is fourth in all of football behind Sizzle, Mullet Man, and Willis.

He's having arguably the best season EVER by a rookie on either side of the ball. He's just not at Suggs' level right now. Outside of Allen, nobody is.

Im stealing what you wrote to send.

Thank you for the website, Ill have to bookmark it.

**LukeDaniel** · 12-01-2011, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by landspeed

I agree with him that Miller is probably the best rookie in the past 15 years outside of randy moss/suh(who has fell off tremendously in production this year).

However. I really cannot agree that Miller has that great of an impact over Suggs.

I totally forgot about Moss. I retract my earlier statement that Miller is having the best rookie season ever. I will quantify that statement by saying that Miller is having the best DEFENSIVE season by any rookie ever quite possibly.

I think Miller2011> Suh2010 in my humble opinion.

**52decleetzu** · 12-01-2011, 04:47 PM

Keep kicking that knowledge Luke.

As we know perception is not often reality.

As mentioned before, Miller is not the all around player Suggs is when it comes to coverage. He basically just rushes the passer right now.

For the 18th ranked defense, not top 3 like we have.

**Merlin** · 12-01-2011, 05:22 PM

Great stats site.
Now I have another place besides Football Outsiders.

They rank Flacco # 8 this year ; seems about right . ...

**Merlin** · 12-01-2011, 05:25 PM

But they also rank T. Smith and Boldin as # 2 and # 4 WR respectively in terms of "win probability added"

I'm a homer, but that's not right . ...

**52decleetzu** · 12-01-2011, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by Merlin

Great stats site.
Now I have another place besides Football Outsiders.

They rank Flacco # 8 this year ; seems about right . ...

AdvancedNFLstats

Football Outsiders

ProFootballFocus.

Plenty of great unbiased info there.

One of the things I like about AdvancedNFLStats is you can go back during or after the game and look up a graph that shows the win probability throughout the course of the game.

Case in point: When Joe Flacco got the ball back in Pitt for that final drive, we had a 3% chance of winning the game. Yep, 3 times out of a 100 we win. And he did it.

Another fantastic one was the Pro Football Reference Blog. They shut it down recently but have tons of analysis in the archives, check it out.

**SC_Raven_Fan** · 12-01-2011, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by landspeed

Some dude is trying to argue with me that Von Miller is better than Terrell Suggs this year. I need to put him in his place. He wont take the fact that miller has less INTs and FF's.

I need individual detailed statistics. Thanks

Geez, the guy is right about this year. Miller is outperforming Terrell Suggs based on PFF's "Pass Rushing Productivity" index. It's based upon how many sacks, hits & pressures a player makes out of the number of times he rushed the QB. It's a good metric since it eliminates the times Suggs drops back in coverage, etc.

Rank___ Player_____ Team__ Pass Rushes _ Total Pressure _ Per Pass Rush
2____ Von Miller _____ DEN ______ 302_________ 55 __________ 18.21%
24___ Terrell Suggs __ BAL ______ 355 _________ 43 __________ 12.11%

**52decleetzu** · 12-01-2011, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by SC_Raven_Fan

Geez, the guy is right about this year. Miller is outperforming Terrell Suggs based on PFF's "Pass Rushing Productivity" index. It's based upon how many sacks, hits & pressures a player makes out of the number of times he rushed the QB. It's a good metric since it eliminates the times Suggs drops back in coverage, etc.

Rank___ Player_____ Team__ Pass Rushes _ Total Pressure _ Per Pass Rush
2____ Von Miller _____ DEN ______ 302_________ 55 __________ 18.21%
24___ Terrell Suggs __ BAL ______ 355 _________ 43 __________ 12.11%

That is great for pass rushing, but again it doesn't take into account run play and coverage. Suggs would be ahead in those departments. The slight edge overall goes to Suggs.