Ray Lewis- Giving Him the Tough Talk

**mommathurgoesthatman** · 12-28-2011, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by ballhawk

they should have rested Ray these last 2 games before the playoffs. it definately looks like he is still hurting.

ray need to play again to get back in "football shape". if they would have rested Ray he would have been out 6-7 weeks. That will make him even slower if he came back and played in the playoffs. Let him play to get the feel back. We will need him in the playoffs back in playing shape.

**StingerNLG** · 12-29-2011, 04:07 PM

Everyone is talking like we're asking to kick Ray off the team. I think most sensible people would agree that Ray is just not the coverage LB he was even 5 years ago. And for goodness sakes how can he be? Father time catches up with everyone.

I think people are saying he should start becoming more a 2-down LB instead of a 3-down LB. Let Ellerbe cover TE's and WR's in the middle of the field instead of constantly watching Ray have to chase them down from behind.

**52decleetzu** · 12-29-2011, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by StingerNLG

Everyone is talking like we're asking to kick Ray off the team. I think most sensible people would agree that Ray is just not the coverage LB he was even 5 years ago. And for goodness sakes how can he be? Father time catches up with everyone.

I think people are saying he should start becoming more a 2-down LB instead of a 3-down LB. Let Ellerbe cover TE's and WR's in the middle of the field instead of constantly watching Ray have to chase them down from behind.

And I think the coverage numbers indicate that the idea that Ray Lewis is just horrible in coverage is just not true.

It is very easy to say "he is 36, old, slow take him off the field". That is the extent of most people's analysis, which again has proven to be wrong. Perception is not often reality. Especially perception when the fanbase is in a foul mood, like right now. Notice how we had 3 pages of bashing, and then when FACTS were presented that showed the opposite the thread slowed to a crawl.

A lot of coverage is knowing who is going where and getting there. You could have the fastest youngest LB in the world back there but if he has no clue how to diagnose the play it won't matter on damn bit how fast he is.

Ray was 36, "old and slow" for the first 8 weeks and playing at a Pro Bowl level. Go back and find me some threads saying take him off the field then. Did he lose it in a month? Or is he still battling injury? The evidence suggests the latter.

**arnie_uk** · 12-29-2011, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by 52decleetzu

And I think the coverage numbers indicate that the idea that Ray Lewis is just horrible in coverage is just not true.

It is very easy to say "he is 36, old, slow take him off the field". That is the extent of most people's analysis, which again has proven to be wrong. Perception is not often reality. Especially perception when the fanbase is in a foul mood, like right now. Notice how we had 3 pages of bashing, and then when FACTS were presented that showed the opposite the thread slowed to a crawl.

A lot of coverage is knowing who is going where and getting there. You could have the fastest youngest LB in the world back there but if he has no clue how to diagnose the play it won't matter on damn bit how fast he is.

Ray was 36, "old and slow" for the first 8 weeks and playing at a Pro Bowl level. Go back and find me some threads saying take him off the field then. Did he lose it in a month? Or is he still battling injury? The evidence suggests the latter.

you saved me a lot of typing there 52, i dont think he read the previous page with all the stats

**StingerNLG** · 12-29-2011, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by arnie_uk

you saved me a lot of typing there 52, i dont think he read the previous page with all the stats

Yes I did. And it's quite vague when it comes to when he was targetted as the pass coverage guy. Real easy to just say anything over the middle when we're playing 4LB's. Watching him chase after guys, get shucked out of his shoes by Marshawn Lynch (which IIRC was before his injury), and seeing him a step behind pass catchers is something a stat doesn't always show. Besides if you are going by those stats, he's clearly below a chunk of that list in PD's, INT's, and TD's. So exactly what part of that list is getting cherry picked to make the point?

Originally Posted by 52decleetzu

Ray was 36, "old and slow" for the first 8 weeks and playing at a Pro Bowl level. Go back and find me some threads saying take him off the field then. Did he lose it in a month? Or is he still battling injury? The evidence suggests the latter.

Considering you never know until he's off the field, that isn't a good analogy to use. You don't know how fast another car is against yours until you get behind the wheel of it. We didn't know how much better or faster the defense would look because.......as you guys have pointed out......no one was going to pull him off the field on their own.

And to say this never came up until now means you haven't listened to radio, or read a message board. Many people are simply saying that it may be time to take him off the field on 3rd down, and none of them are suggesting we cut him or something. This claim of a "witch hunt" is just silly, and beneath a reasonable debate on the subject.

Ray is a hall of fame, first ballot LB. One of the best to play the game. But ignoring reality does his legacy no justice, on the field, or on a message board.

**NCRAVEN** · 12-30-2011, 07:12 AM

Not that this comes as a surprise to anyone, but it would seem the lackluster play over the past few weeks is because he/the Ravens rushed him back. Should have rested until it was 100% or as close as it would get.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/r...,5746039.story

**Ngata Nother Suggs** · 01-07-2012, 10:06 AM

So any of you guys with your snobby replies acting like I don't know what I'm talking about, I would assume your eyeballs were working correctly watching the Bengals game. There should be plenty of concern regarding Ray running out there matched up on Gronkowski in NE, or when the Ravens make it to the SB it will be Ray out there with all of Rodger's crew. The Ravens are so close but this is one of the thing that could kill them besides Cundiff missing kicks.

I was asked to provide a link but I cannot. The Browns and Bengals game should be 8 quarters of hard, solid evidence. Ray Lewis is a 100% liability in pass coverage. He still brings his theatrics, but these passing teams the Ravens have to beat to win it all will all go right after Ray. It would be helpful if Ngata could step it up because Suggs can't do it all. Ray is just not running well, and they need a faster linebacker in coverage. I don't think two weeks of rest is going to make much of a difference. I have a hunch that we haven't seen the end of Ed Reed though. Next week I bet he flips a switch.

If you don't agree with my assessment that is fine. It's only my opinion. I assumed we were allowed to do that on this board. I'm not much into reading a lot of stats that don't tell the entire story. They don't account for how important the play was, and whether or not Ray made a play when he was in position to.

**The Excellector** · 01-07-2012, 10:17 AM

We are judging Ray and, to a degree, Ed Reed, against themselves. Not against the rest of the league. If Reed doesn't miss that one tackle, the Bengals don't score a single TD. This, after Dalton lit them up for over 350 yards passing, while the Bengals scored 24 against the Ravens, without A.J. Green.

**The Excellector** · 01-07-2012, 10:20 AM

As far as facing Tom Brady, I trust Ray's film study over that of McClain and Ellerbe. They may be faster, but that does not guarantee that they will know where they are going and neither should concern Brady or Rodgers. Lewis's physical skills may not concern them, but his presence will. He will know where to have the guys lined up at and he will know what is coming. You can get away with McClain and Ellerbe against weaker quarterbacks, which they did. However, against Brady, it will not work.

**burnwood** · 01-07-2012, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Ngata Nother Suggs

So any of you guys with your snobby replies acting like I don't know what I'm talking about, I would assume your eyeballs were working correctly watching the Bengals game. There should be plenty of concern regarding Ray running out there matched up on Gronkowski in NE, or when the Ravens make it to the SB it will be Ray out there with all of Rodger's crew. The Ravens are so close but this is one of the thing that could kill them besides Cundiff missing kicks.

I was asked to provide a link but I cannot. The Browns and Bengals game should be 8 quarters of hard, solid evidence. Ray Lewis is a 100% liability in pass coverage. He still brings his theatrics, but these passing teams the Ravens have to beat to win it all will all go right after Ray. It would be helpful if Ngata could step it up because Suggs can't do it all. Ray is just not running well, and they need a faster linebacker in coverage. I don't think two weeks of rest is going to make much of a difference. I have a hunch that we haven't seen the end of Ed Reed though. Next week I bet he flips a switch.

If you don't agree with my assessment that is fine. It's only my opinion. I assumed we were allowed to do that on this board. I'm not much into reading a lot of stats that don't tell the entire story. They don't account for how important the play was, and whether or not Ray made a play when he was in position to.

It's been 8 days since the last post in this thread and you still need attention? Must work for the media.

**Ravenalytics** · 01-07-2012, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by burnwood

It's been 8 days since the last post in this thread and you still need attention? Must work for the media.

NNS is a pretty respected member of this board, rook.

**BleedPurple92** · 01-07-2012, 02:42 PM

Please someone tell Ray to sit on 3rd downs. I have confidence in ED, because i think we don't get to see all the things he does, but man Ray does not look like Ray.

I wish people would actually take their emotions out of it, before replying, they know this thread is spot on.

**Ravenswintitle** · 01-07-2012, 03:05 PM

Just watched the whole Bengal game again and couldn't see one play where Ray gave up a pass gain on 3rd. Anyone have specifics? Already asked three times w no replies so my guess is no...

**ballhawk** · 01-07-2012, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

Just watched the whole Bengal game again and couldn't see one play where Ray gave up a pass gain on 3rd. Anyone have specifics? Already asked three times w no replies so my guess is no...

I remember a play where mcclain missed a tackle that went for a first. My initial thought was that ray may have lost a step, but he is still a sure tackler, and rarely lets anybody get by him after he makes contact and wraps the ball carrier up.

I think we are going to see some vintage ray Lewis next week with a few of those signature plays that we have seen so many times. Hopefully the bye week does wonders for his hurt foot.

**burnwood** · 01-07-2012, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenalytics

NNS is a pretty respected member of this board, rook.

This is funny.

**Rosdaman** · 01-08-2012, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

Just watched the whole Bengal game again and couldn't see one play where Ray gave up a pass gain on 3rd. Anyone have specifics? Already asked three times w no replies so my guess is no...

Ray has major trouble reversing direction North South. He is fine East West. On play action, if his first step is to the line, he has to come to a full stop, gather himself, turrnnnnn, then head upfield. It's on tape multiple times since he returned from the injury, which obviously is not fully healed.