11-0

**pickles** · 01-02-2012, 09:36 AM

When leading at halftime this year, according to the announcers today. Haven't actually verified it so somebody let me know if that's incorrect.

Still, it probably isn't too far off. For a team that doesn't have a killer instinct, that consistently takes its foot of the pedal game after game, and has a coaching staff that is poor at making in-game adjustments, they sure did a hell of a job smoke and mirroring their way to that record.

Or maybe some people's perspective is warped.

I wonder what is more likely? What say you?

**Mista T** · 01-02-2012, 09:38 AM

What a contrast to the 2010 team, under Mattison's defensive "leadership", which surrendered 4th Q leads leads in 9 games!

**Haloti92** · 01-02-2012, 09:40 AM

re: OP

I say that is a textbook False Dilemma Fallacy.

But the effort is duly noted.

**pickles** · 01-02-2012, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Mista T

What a contrast to the 2010 team, under Mattison's defensive "leadership", which surrendered 4th Q leads leads in 9 games!

This is certainly part of it. I had a hell of a lot more problem w the conservative nature of last year's D w a lead, than I do w this years O.

I am sure though that so many that have harped on the conservative nature of the gameplan yesterday, and last week vs. the Browns, and at other times this year, will be quick to show up and point out what I'm missing, because I just don't get it.

But I'm a slow-thinking man, so any help in that regard will be greatly appreciated.

**RavenousD** · 01-02-2012, 09:41 AM

this is great but I am still concerned about the defense the last few games. We may not be giving up as many 4th Qtr leads as last year, but the defense has become increasingly vanilla and a non-factor.

**pslholder96** · 01-02-2012, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by pickles

When leading at halftime this year, according to the announcers today. Haven't actually verified it so somebody let me know if that's incorrect.

Still, it probably isn't too far off. For a team that doesn't have a killer instinct, that consistently takes its foot of the pedal game after game, and has a coaching staff that is poor at making in-game adjustments, they sure did a hell of a job smoke and mirroring their way to that record.

Or maybe some people's perspective is warped.

I wonder what is more likely? What say you?

I'll take it everyday of the week. If that's our formula so be it. Coorect me if I'm wrong but our "bend but don't break" defense has not blown a 4th quarter lead all year. Last year it was the complete opposite. I think we blew like 4 or 5 of them.

**pickles** · 01-02-2012, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Haloti92

re: OP

I say that is a textbook False Dilemma Fallacy.

But the effort is duly noted.

How so specifically?

Surely the Ravens didn't have all those problems and they failed to manifest themselves over 16 games?

**Jsmoove** · 01-02-2012, 09:44 AM

Mattison had to be the worst D cordinator we ever had. Chuck essentially has the same tools that mattison had minus Jimmy and Mcphee.

**pickles** · 01-02-2012, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by RavenousD

this is great but I am still concerned about the defense the last few games. We may not be giving up as many 4th Qtr leads as last year, but the defense has become increasingly vanilla and a non-factor.

I really think it's a factor of teams game planning against us better. The Chargers and the Bengals both made a point to get the ball out very quickly. If you do that you can negate our bliztes and that's where the majority of our turnovers come from.

Honestly, that is a concern I have going forward.

**pslholder96** · 01-02-2012, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by pickles

This is certainly part of it. I had a hell of a lot more problem w the conservative nature of last year's D w a lead, than I do w this years O.

I am sure though that so many that have harped on the conservative nature of the gameplan yesterday, and last week vs. the Browns, and at other times this year, will be quick to show up and point out what I'm missing, because I just don't get it.

But I'm a slow-thinking man, so any help in that regard will be greatly appreciated.

If running the ball (which yielded over 200 rushing yards) in those windy conditions was part of the game plan (which I'm sure it was) then I say it wasn't conservative but more aggressive because we kept attacking and bringing it and the Cincy defense knew it and couldn't stop it. Doesn't matter how we got our 200 + yards rushing but what matters is that we got there with the win.

**RavenousD** · 01-02-2012, 09:53 AM

I really think it's a factor of teams game planning against us better. The Chargers and the Bengals both made a point to get the ball out very quickly. If you do that you can negate our bliztes and that's where the majority of our turnovers come from.

Honestly, that is a concern I have going forward.

The tops teams in the playoffs will likely have similar plans. I really want to see a press coverage, bump and run defense. I am also hoping we went vanilla on defense towards the end of the season as a strategy of sorts. Some for rest, some for not showing our hand against the playoff teams, though, now that 3 teams are in from the AFCN, I am guessing that is a moot point since 2 out of 5 teams know us very well.

**veritas** · 01-02-2012, 09:58 AM

We're going to end up in NE most likely. Taking your foot off the gas there will cause us to lose. This isn't complicated. NE has a very good offense and horrible defense. All we have to do is hold the ball and score. Give it to Brady a lot and we'll have problems.

**Haloti92** · 01-02-2012, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by pickles

How so specifically?

Surely the Ravens didn't have all those problems and they failed to manifest themselves over 16 games?

What problems are we talking about?

It is hard to keep track of what people are arguing when it comes to playcalling. Are you in the 'Cam doesn't get conservative with leads in the 2nd half' camp or the 'Cam does get conservative with leads because it is the right thing to do' camp? A different response is required depending on your answer.

**pickles** · 01-02-2012, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by RavenousD

The tops teams in the playoffs will likely have similar plans. I really want to see a press coverage, bump and run defense. I am also hoping we went vanilla on defense towards the end of the season as a strategy of sorts. Some for rest, some for not showing our hand against the playoff teams, though, now that 3 teams are in from the AFCN, I am guessing that is a moot point since 2 out of 5 teams know us very well.

I think we def should think about playing the corners more aggresively. There is of course a downside to that. We'll see what happens.

**bacchys** · 01-02-2012, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Jsmoove

Mattison had to be the worst D cordinator we ever had. Chuck essentially has the same tools that mattison had minus Jimmy and Mcphee.

Um, no. Mattison was dealing with a secondary whose "depth" was Washington and Walker- and they were often the starters he had to put on the field. For a pass rush, he had Suggs and....and....nobody.

It's easier to be aggressive when you have the horses to do it. Mattison's wrongly maligned by Madden geniuses, imo.

**bacchys** · 01-02-2012, 10:00 AM

Only 11-0 when we have a first half lead?

That's horrible! We should have twice that many wins when we have a first half lead!

**pickles** · 01-02-2012, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Haloti92

What problems are we talking about?

It is hard to keep track of what people are arguing when it comes to playcalling. Are you in the 'Cam doesn't get conservative with leads in the 2nd half' camp or the 'Cam does get conservative with leads because it is the right thing to do' camp? A different response is required depending on your answer.

I'm in the, "whatever he's doing is working so why bitch and moan about it endlessly" camp.

Seriously, I don't think he gets as conservative as some people act like he does, and I often think, like today for example, backed up inside our own territory deep, it's the right call.

**RavenousD** · 01-02-2012, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by pickles

I think we def should think about playing the corners more aggresively. There is of course a downside to that. We'll see what happens.

I remember we had a similar issue in 2009 playoffs. I think it was 2009. The year we crushed the Pariots in the playoffs. That year, D was playing very soft towards the end of the year, but in the playoffs, the D came alive. Hoping we see the same thing.

**Haloti92** · 01-02-2012, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by pickles

I'm in the, "whatever he's doing is working so why bitch and moan about it endlessly" camp.

Seriously, I don't think he gets as conservative as some people act like he does, and I often think, like today for example, backed up inside our own territory deep, it's the right call.

That 'camp' isn't worth arguing with.

I think the 'conservative' accusation might be overused or overdone as well, but I think it exists at times, in some degree (in fact, like I said, many around here recognize it but welcome it). But there are also two kinds of 'conservative' that people are talking about. The simple distinction, run vs pass, and the subtle distinction, types of runs and pass (and sometimes the downs they are called). The latter is what some people have been critical of (since Cam has been here) and is what some people are talking about here which confuses the issue somewhat.

I have already stated my point of view.

We can all agree that going conservative, at all, is not always the smart thing to do, across the board, for every team. A team like New England or even GB wouldn't do it because their D is not reliable and their offense is reliable and likely to score. If those teams have a 14 point lead their best strategy to win is to try to match the scoring from there on out rather than hold the opponent defensively to less than 14 points in the remainder of the game. If we are talking about the 2000 Ravens, your offense isn't all that reliable when trying to score, and you can try to hold a 3 point lead with your defense alone, and it makes sense to get as conservative as can be on offense.

In between those extremes are most teams, including this years Ravens.

I, for one, am a bit nervous about asking our defense to get stops when called on, because my perception is that they can't always do that (and this perception was against average offenses, not NE, GB, NO type offenses or even the tier below them). Just because we stopped Cincy on the 8 yard line at home and won doesn't change the fact we allowed a game that was 'in hand' to get so close to being tied (no one can argue that was part of the 'plan').

I also think that our offense can score some points when we are really trying (when we have a sense of urgency). So to me, a 10-14 point lead is best kept by playing like you did to get the lead (until at least the 4th quarter). It relieves the pressure on the defense, and I think it would actually go a way towards making the offense more confident in general (including the start of games).

But I do agree with you that nothing has 'cost' us this year (last year is different story), and that the actual degree and prevalence of 'conservative mode' gets exaggerated here.

I also agree with those who think that our offense underachieves its talent, and that Cam is not close to the leagues best OC.

**alienrace** · 01-02-2012, 10:33 AM

I haven't had a lot of faith in the defense making stops the last few weeks, but they do seem to be getting the job done in the end.

Some of this is the wear and tear of the season, guys are just worn down. This is why the bye week is so huge.

This is clearly Harbs best team though, and I think, the best team in the AFC by a wide margin. They are the only team in the AFC without a glaring, gaping weakness. It's ripe for the taking.