Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

[trailhiker85]

I hadn't known the cap situation was quite this bad for Pittsburgh.

On the other end of the spectrum, don't the Bengals have acres & acres of cap space going into next year?

And would the Ravens cap situation fall somewhere in between?

Makes one ponder the future of the AFCN, especially in light of Cincy posting a winning record and making the playoffs with their young squad this year...

[52decleetzu]

does anyone have any numbers for what the Ravens cap situation looks like next year?

Ravor posted this in another thread yesterday...

Once they account for their RFAs and EFAs, take on the escalators to Flacco's contract and account for any incentives possibly earned this year (Gurode, Ricky, McKinnie) they aren't going to be anywhere near $20M under.

I've seen an estimate that the Cap is going to be around $125M. The Ravens will be able to carry over approx $4-5M from this year to increase that number, but they presently (as of late Sept) have around $108M counting against the 2012 Cap, which is only for the 34 players that are currently under contract for 2012. Even with Foxworth coming off of the books ($5.6M savings), once they account for the above, much of that Cap space is going to disappear (and quickly).

So the Ravens will be able to go to $126 million (if the cap is $121 like Casserly estimated a few weeks ago). They have...

$108 million on the books for 34 players in 2012.

Cut Fox that goes to $102 million.

Add in all EFA's,RFA's and draft picks you are probably at about of $114 million (guestimate). Under the cap by $10 million or so.

So in comparison, the Steelers will be around $152 million, Ravens around $114 million. And we have $5 more million to work with we didn't use last year, that they don't because they restructured players and played with their cap to get under LAST years number. So we can go to around $126 total, while the Steelers will have to stick around $121 million total.

Those numbers aren't exact but are probably pretty close.

[alienrace]

Makes one ponder the future of the AFCN, especially in light of Cincy posting a winning record and making the playoffs with their young squad this year...

Mike Brown will find a way to fuck it up.

[sailorsam]

(sigh) all this just warms my little heart!
thx for the info and analysis! just another reason to love this board.
it's great to be a Ravens fan!!!

[trailhiker85]

Mike Brown will find a way to fuck it up.

That's what everyone said about the Carson Palmer situation, but unless Cincy uses those picks acquired from Oakland to draft the next Jamarcus Russell, the Bengals should come out smelling like a rose on that deal.

Still, point taken about Brown given his overall history. He is probably our best ally in keeping the Bengals in check.

[trailhiker85]

So the Ravens will be able to go to $126 million (if the cap is $121 like Casserly estimated a few weeks ago). They have...

$108 million on the books for 34 players in 2012.

Cut Fox that goes to $114 million.

Add in all EFA's,RFA's and draft picks you are probably right at the cap of $125 million (guestimate). Just under the cap by a million or so.

I assume this doesn't take into account the possibility of Ray's retirement before next season? Which may or may not happen, but if it does would the savings be significant? Let's assume Ed Reed stays with the team next year.

Hmm ...guess this brings the topic away from "Non-Ravens" football, but just curious...

[SPRavensFan]

The Steelers gave Ben a ton of money, Woodley and Harrison a ton of money, I believe Timmons as well as Polamalu, as well as Ike Taylor. They have people like Pouncey, Wallace, Antonio Brown and Osama Bin Mendenhall who will be coming up on paydays as well.

They will be forced to have a cap purge starting with older players on defense.

[52decleetzu]

I assume this doesn't take into account the possibility of Ray's retirement before next season? Which may or may not happen, but if it does would the savings be significant? Let's assume Ed Reed stays with the team next year.

Hmm ...guess this brings the topic away from "Non-Ravens" football, but just curious...

That is assuming no one else gets cut/retires and they all come back, just cutting Foxworth.

We can probably pick up a few more million cutting a few players but I doubt anything major will be going on in that regard. I mean Evans....JJ(torn about him)...who else really?? I just don't see that much "dead weight" on this roster. Hell half of it was drafted in the last 3 years, which is why we are in such a good spot relatively speaking.

One other thing, Ray Rice needs along term deal to help us out. If we have to franchise him and carry it into the season, we won't have money to do anything. His franchise number will be about $8 million, while on a long term deal it would be much lower in the first year.

[GOTA]

Mike Brown will find a way to fuck it up.

The Bengals 'personnel director', really Mike Brown's best friend, is retiring and he's not being replaced. I keep hearing how Marvin got a lot more personnel control when he signed his last contract. I don't think Brown is as involved as he has been. That doesn't mean he's going to spend big on a free agent but for the mid-level guy and the draft picks he's going to let Marvin make the calls.

[The Excellector]

The Ravens have three major contracts to deal with. Flacco, Grubbs and Rice will all get raises. They may not have much to spend in FA, but they should be able to get those three contracts done.

[Corey]

This is why I was surprised to see the Hair get his fat contract extension. The Steelers don't follow the "Steeler" way that their fans like to tout.

This would be a good time for someone to offer Wallace a huge contract cause there is no way they'd be able to match it.

[CincyCat]

The Bengals 'personnel director', really Mike Brown's best friend, is retiring and he's not being replaced. I keep hearing how Marvin got a lot more personnel control when he signed his last contract. I don't think Brown is as involved as he has been. That doesn't mean he's going to spend big on a free agent but for the mid-level guy and the draft picks he's going to let Marvin make the calls.

This is great news indeed (Steelers cap trouble). Brown has let Marvin do a lot more and our last few years of picks have been pretty damned good.

We are always a mile under the cap so we can afford the new picks plus some free agents.

[Corey]

That is assuming no one else gets cut/retires and they all come back, just cutting Foxworth.

We can probably pick up a few more million cutting a few players but I doubt anything major will be going on in that regard. I mean Evans....JJ(torn about him)...who else really?? I just don't see that much "dead weight" on this roster. Hell half of it was drafted in the last 3 years, which is why we are in such a good spot relatively speaking.

One other thing, Ray Rice needs along term deal to help us out. If we have to franchise him and carry it into the season, we won't have money to do anything. His franchise number will be about $8 million, while on a long term deal it would be much lower in the first year.

So, Grubbs is pretty much out of the question for us then?

[52decleetzu]

Guys I added Fox's cap number instead of deducting it for 2012, the numbers are fixed now.

[52decleetzu]

So, Grubbs is pretty much out of the question for us then?

We should have about $10 million in cap space to work with, but I am sure that will be more with other cuts and money shifting here and there.

Bottom line...we should have enough room for 2 big contracts, Grubbs and Rice.

Ravor if you are out there and I am wrong correct me!

[TimTheEnchanter]

On June 18, 2009, Wallace signed a three year contract with the Steelers worth $1.740 million which included a $555,000 signing bonus.

Wallace is a hot name around the league and his agent could get a good deal for him easily. Obvious places being the Rams and Vikings

Going to take some serious coin to lock up Wallace. And he deserves a payday, he is an excellent young receiver

He's been in the league 3 years, so he'll get locked up with the top RFA tender (probably around 2-3 Mil). Doubt anyone will give up a one and a three plus a monster contract for him.
I doubt they'd get any long term deal into a smaller cap number than the RFA number.

[52decleetzu]

He's been in the league 3 years, so he'll get locked up with the top RFA tender (probably around 2-3 Mil). Doubt anyone will give up a one and a three plus a monster contract for him.
I doubt they'd get any long term deal into a smaller cap number than the RFA number.

Yeah the top RFA tag is going to be around $3.5 million I think, and a long term deal would be about 5 or 6 in the first year.

I am not sure I am following this logic from the writer....

Retaining Mike Wallace for the Long-Term Is a Necessity

The Steelers also have at least six players slated to be restricted free agents and two more who will be exclusive-rights free agents, all of whom Pittsburgh likely wants back for 2012. But the only prominent player on this list of restricted free agents is superstar receiver Mike Wallace. The Steelers obviously would ideally like to retain Wallace’s services by first tendering him an offer at the highest level (an estimated salary of $3.5 million for 2012) that would result in Pittsburgh having the right to match any external salary offers presented to Wallace or receiving a first-round draft pick from any team that signs Wallace to an unmatched offer.

By tendering Wallace, the Steelers would ideally work on signing him to a long-term deal in the summer that would slightly increase his cap figure for 2012 from his initial tender offer due to a pro-rated signing bonus. However, the Steelers would be able to free up more cap space to sign its draft picks and possibly increase Wallace’s 2012 cap figure after June 1st when they can release veterans like guard Chris Kemoteau who are signed beyond 2012, but not have all the dead money owed to those players applied to their 2012 cap limit as it would if those players were released before June 1st. However, that ideal strategy would be risky in Wallace’s case. It should be noted the new CBA no longer includes first- and third-round picks as compensation for the highest tendered restricted free agents.

I don't see why the Steelers need to lock him up this year. I mean yeah he will be a UFA next year but you can tag him and then sign him next year. By signing him this year you are just going to increase his cap number (and the writer underestimated that too, it won't "slightly rise" from $3.5 million, it willgo up at least another $2 million for 2012) and the Steelers are just so strapped they can't afford to be throwing an extra million or two when it isn't needed.

What the writer is basically saying is sign him now, JUST so you can restructure his deal after June 1 to save money towards the 2012 cap. That alone should tell you how bad the situation is, teams don't sign guys to extensions and then restructure a couple months later LOL. I mean I guess you could do it, but you are just transferring money into 2013 and beyond in a pretty crazy way.

[The Excellector]

Well, if they tag Wallace, that would work against any chance they have of sweeping some of this under the 2013 rug. Then, we don't know how Wallace feels. Anything can happen between now and then. What if Ben has another injury plagued season? What if the team, as a whole, disappoints next year. There is nothing to guarantee that Wallace would want to stay and tagging him will put even more strain on the cap issues they are going to face.

[52decleetzu]

I don't feel like getting into it now but the writer is using some crazy logic for this whole Wallace thing. I just re-read the entire section where he sings his praises and calls him one of the best in the game, but then says "but it isn't going to cost us a lot and here is why." What? Oh I forgot, you are the Steelers, and you think players will just take what YOU want to pay them. Right.

The writer may be a great cap analyst, but he is clueless about what is going to determine Wallace's market value as one of the best young WR's in the game. he got waaaay off track and it looked like the "fan" in him took over. He must live in the world of unicorns eating rainbows if he thinks Wallace is signing an extension that is 30% less than Santonio "I am 1 strike away from a year long suspension" Holmes.

[Corey]

He's been in the league 3 years, so he'll get locked up with the top RFA tender (probably around 2-3 Mil). Doubt anyone will give up a one and a three plus a monster contract for him.
I doubt they'd get any long term deal into a smaller cap number than the RFA number.

The Falcons just traded two drafts to get an unproven Julio Jones. Wallace is a proven commodity and would be cheaper (draft picks wise). For a team that has a crap load of space under the cap and a late pick, he will be intriguing.

If the Bengals were smart they'd make that move. Add Wallace to AJ Green and they've got the best WR duo for the next 7 or 8 years. They've got the cap space to do it. And they've got an extra first round pick. They'd weaken a division opponent and add to their own attack. Unfortunately, I don't think Mike Brown has the balls to pull such a coup.