Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

[Irish Raven]

He's been in the league 3 years, so he'll get locked up with the top RFA tender (probably around 2-3 Mil). Doubt anyone will give up a one and a three plus a monster contract for him.
I doubt they'd get any long term deal into a smaller cap number than the RFA number.

Just on this, the new CBA did away with the first and a third
I'm fairly certain the top tender is now a first

[Haloti92]

He must live in the world of unicorns eating rainbows if he thinks Wallace is signing an extension that is 30% less than Santonio "I am 1 strike away from a year long suspension" Holmes.

Looks like he assumes 5 yr - $45M for Wallace which I think was the same as Holmes. Where are you getting 30% less?

[Irish Raven]

I think it was to do with guranteed money

From Post Two

Santonio Holmes just got $24 million guaranteed, and this writer thinks a superior, clean Wallace is only going to get $18 million???

[52decleetzu]

I think it was to do with guaranteed money

From Post Two

Correct.

Total contract values usually aren't worth the paper they are written on.

Fitzgerald got $50 million guaranteed this past summer.

Obviously Wallace isn't in that class, but if Santonio got 24, and Fitz got 50......do the math.

$18 million for Wallace is laughable. Hell he would get $13 million for the franchise tag alone in 2013, why would you lock yourself up for 5-6 years for $5 million more? It makes no sense, and won't happen in this lifetime.

[vinny600]

What are you going to pay all of those players with, Monopoly money?

Might want to go back and actually read those articles -- they were written by your own reporters.

Here are the players I mentioned:

Cortez Allen-under contract thru 2014
Curtis Brown-under contract thru 2014
Marcus Gilbert-under contract thru 2014
Cameron Heyward-under contract thru 2015
Stevenson Sylvester-under contract thru 2012
Willie Colon-under contract thru 2015
Ryan Clark-under contract thru 2013

Hoke will be signed for veteran minimum (925k)

So if by saying "all of those players" you mean the remaining two I mentioned (McClendon and Mundy) then I guess you're right. However we don't need any money for the players above and will cut veterans in those positions (except CB) to free up cap money.

[SteelFaninBMore]

Hoke will be signed for veteran minimum (925k)

Hoke will be 36 by the time training camp comes around, and he just had neck surgery a month ago. Honestly I'd be very surprised if he doesn't retire at the end of this season.

Don't care who is waiting in the wings, losing Ward, Farrior, Smith, maybe Hampton, etc in one off-season is going to hurt. LeBeau won't be around forever either - he might see this is as a prime opportunity to walk away as well. There is no depth at NT, and none at ILB. Pittsburgh has spent a boat-load on cash on Woodley, Timmons, and Troy, and none of them have played up to expectations...although at least Woodley can say he's been hurt the last couple months.

The team is going to need to reload, and while I think they'll still be competitive during that time, they're likely going to take a backseat to Baltimore and Cincy in the division.

If the window is closing on Pittsburgh - and it does appear to be the case - so be it. It was a excellent run for the 7 years it lasted. All good things must come to an end.

[vinny600]

Hey SteelFan I agree it will hurt and we must lower our expectations for a couple of years however I think with our drafting record we will still a contender during this time. Even if our defense drops from #1 to #9 or #10 I think our offense can get better after the 2012 draft providing we take a OLman in the first or second round. This can counter the drop on defense. Who knows maybe I'm too optomistic but I've been a hardcore fan since about 1990 and have seen only 4 losing seasons and one 8-8 season. We have the best FO in football and I have faith they will make the best choices available to them to minimize the bleeding.

[Haloti92]

Correct.

Total contract values usually aren't worth the paper they are written on.

Fitzgerald got $50 million guaranteed this past summer.

Obviously Wallace isn't in that class, but if Santonio got 24, and Fitz got 50......do the math.

$18 million for Wallace is laughable. Hell he would get $13 million for the franchise tag alone in 2013, why would you lock yourself up for 5-6 years for $5 million more? It makes no sense, and won't happen in this lifetime.

Yeah, I knew the back ends of these contracts were pretty much fiction. And therefore the total figures are pretty much worthless. I guess I didn't realize that the signing bonus was pretty much the only thing that matters; I thought you could 'guarantee' more than just the signing bonus (which by definition is guaranteed because it is paid upfront). Trying to look up the details of Holmes' contract it looked like (the way I read it) his first two years salaries were included in the 'guaranteed' money, but it didn't mention when it was paid (which I assumed was the key in determining how it is treated for cap purposes). It listed his 1st year salary as $1M, and 2nd year as $7.75M, but like I said it said the $24M guaranteed 'includes' these amounts. I assumed that meant his upfront money was $24M less the $8.75M; if not, does it mean he got all the $24M up front but then gets no salary (just small roster bonuses) in years 1 and 2?

Either way, you are right that Wallace will draw more than Holmes (and less than Fitz), probably a large chunk more.

[52decleetzu]

Yeah, I knew the back ends of these contracts were pretty much fiction. And therefore the total figures are pretty much worthless. I guess I didn't realize that the signing bonus was pretty much the only thing that matters; I thought you could 'guarantee' more than just the signing bonus (which by definition is guaranteed because it is paid upfront). Trying to look up the details of Holmes' contract it looked like (the way I read it) his first two years salaries were included in the 'guaranteed' money, but it didn't mention when it was paid (which I assumed was the key in determining how it is treated for cap purposes). It listed his 1st year salary as $1M, and 2nd year as $7.75M, but like I said it said the $24M guaranteed 'includes' these amounts. I assumed that meant his upfront money was $24M less the $8.75M; if not, does it mean he got all the $24M up front but then gets no salary (just small roster bonuses) in years 1 and 2?

Either way, you are right that Wallace will draw more than Holmes (and less than Fitz), probably a large chunk more.

Most agents/players are looking at the first 3 years of a deal for the real value these days. The way long term deals are structured it is extremely hard for a team to cut a player they just locked up for a while without killing their cap until after year 3. A large chunk of the signing bonus, plus the yearly salaries are knocked out in that time period with the
"exit strategy" part of the deal if it goes bad after that.

That is why the Jets can't cut Holmes. He is guaranteed like 7.5 million next year regardless, even in 2013 it is going to hurt if they cut him but this year they just can't do it. They are stuck. I guess you could say they are "lucky" it is only a 5 year deal, because if it was longer they would probably have to keep him for 2013 as well. But either way they won't be parting ways.

In Wallace's case, he is going to have even more leverage with because the three most recent deals are going to be what Fitz got, what Holmes got..and what Vincent Jackson is going to get. The Chargers have said they aren't going to franchise him and he is a UFA. I guarantee Wallace and his agent will be following that negotiation and won't sign anything until they know what Jackson is in line for. And I suspect Jackson is going to get a nice deal, setting the market for Wallace. You also have a couple headcases in Desean Jackson and Stevie Williams who are UFA's coming up this year too. It is very rare that you will have that many recent deals at your position when you are coming up for yours to compare too, so Wallace should be in no rush to do anything.

All those deals will just increase his value because they are so fresh and not a year or two old like the deals a lot of agents normally have to use to negotiate. The market will be set higher, and it could be a lot higher.

[SteelFaninBMore]

Hey SteelFan I agree it will hurt and we must lower our expectations for a couple of years however I think with our drafting record we will still a contender during this time. Even if our defense drops from #1 to #9 or #10 I think our offense can get better after the 2012 draft providing we take a OLman in the first or second round. This can counter the drop on defense. Who knows maybe I'm too optomistic but I've been a hardcore fan since about 1990 and have seen only 4 losing seasons and one 8-8 season. We have the best FO in football and I have faith they will make the best choices available to them to minimize the bleeding.

Agreed on most counts. I trust the FO - I usually don't bother getting swept up in cap numbers and doomsday scenarios. Before this year people were gleefully talking about the Steelers being several million over, and waiting anxiously to see who they had to sacrifice to get under...and it was all much ado about nothing. But this time they will have to lose a lot of vets, either cutting to get under, or just via retirement, and it'll have an impact. I agree however that the team will still be competitive - the offense is young, under contract, and filled with a lot of playmakers.

Draft picks will be crucial. Tomlin's done well enough, especially in rounds 1-3...but he could do better. And he'll need to if the Steelers want to avoid any kind of prolonged re-loading period. I refuse to say rebuilding, because as you noted, the team has only had 7 losing seasons in the last 40 years, and never more than 2 in a row...we don't get stuck in rebuilding periods.

[Boulderraven]

Steelers are in deep doo doo. Noway they will be able to keep Wallace and Brown. Some team will tender Wallace with a big contract and Steelers won't be able to match it. You lose your first round pick, but you get a PROVEN commodity in return, can't say that with draft picks. Or at least will drive the price way up on the Steelers, crippling them even more. Ravens should target him. Bengals should do it with two number 1's neither that high. Weaken steelers and put him with Green, Simpson and Gresham and give Dalton another year behind that line. They may be the best offense in AFC and still have another number 1 pick. Bengals would be dumb not to. Other teams in the back of the draft could do it too. Never underestimate the Payriots to take him, Brady needs a fast deep threat. Pats also have 2 late first round picks.

[alienrace]

They are gonna blow this thing up. They have little choice. What we saw today was the last gasp of this current crop.

[52decleetzu]

Even Steeler fans know it is over....

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=68&f=1897&t=8544037

[dreamjo]

Even Steeler reporters know it's over...

Look at Baltimore and the decidedly different approach the Ravens took last offseason, shipping out a few veterans, keeping a few and allowing the youngsters to pick up the slack when the Ray Lewises went down.

I thought it would knock the Ravens backward. Instead, it gave them fresh life.

I raised that example with Rooney after this game, and the man with the final say on these things didn't exactly give a ringing endorsement for keeping everyone together again: "That's something for us to sit down and consider in the days and weeks to come. Right now, the loss just hurts."

Sure does. The Steelers of old would have devoured this quarterback and this opponent.

Those Steelers are done.

Read more: Kovacevic: Steelers never found that spark - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

[The Excellector]

I think that they will certainly have a hard time keeping Mike Wallace, unless he really wants to stay there, which is very possible. I mean, we do not know much about how Wallace feels about Pittsburgh.

Otherwise, I think that teams would have little issue, offering him a nice contract, seeing as they would only have to give up a first round pick. There will be plenty of teams that will have to spend this off-season, due to the new rules.

[52decleetzu]

That new rule of only a first rounder does change things in regards to Wallace.

Remember in 2013 the salary "floor" kicks in, and there are a ton of small market teams who don't spend anywhere near it and could afford to have a #1 WR contract and could easily make a big contract offer.....that the Steelers can't match.

[52decleetzu]

Just off the top of my head here is the prognostication for the Steelers roster and their fate.

No chance in hell they are getting cut.....

Ben Roethilsberger at Quarterback 8 yr/$102,000,000 2015 2016
LaMarr Woodley at Linebacker 6 yr/$61,500,000 2016 2017
James Harrison at Linebacker 6 yr/$51,750,000 2014 2015
Lawrence Timmons at Linebacker 6 yr/$50,000,000 2016 2017
Troy Polamalu at Safety 4 yr/$36,500,000 2014 2015
Heath Miller at Tight End 6 yr/$35,300,000 2014 2015
Willie Colon at Tackle 5 yr/$29,000,000 2015 2016
Maurkice Pouncey at Center 5 yr/$17,960,000 2014 2015
Rashard Mendenhall at Running Back 5 yr/$9,855,000 2012 2013
Evander Hood at Defensive End 5 yr/$8,700,000 2013 2014
Cameron Heyward at Defensive End 4 yr/$6,700,000 2014 2015
Jason Worilds at Linebacker 4 yr/$3,700,000 2013 2014
Marcus Gilbert at Tackle 4 yr/$3,227,000 2014 2015
Emmanuel Sanders at Wide Receiver 3 yr/$1,801,000 2012 2013
Ramon Foster at Guard 3 yr/$1,193,000 2011 2012
Issac Redman at Running Back 3 yr/$1,035,000 2011 2012
Antonio Brown at Wide Receiver 3 yr/$1,288,000 2012 2013



More than likely back(due to age/cost)...

Jonathan Dwyer at Running Back 3 yr/$1,293,000 2012 2013
Jonathan Scott at Tackle 1 yr/$1,300,000 2011 2012
Jerricho Cotchery at Wide Receiver 1 yr/$810,000 2011 2012
Keenan Lewis at Cornerback 1 yr/$685,000 2011 2012
Jamon Meredith at Tackle 1 yr/$525,000 2011 2012
Ryan Mundy at Safety 1 yr/$525,000 2011 2012
Doug Legursky at Center/Guard 1 yr/$525,000 2011 2012
Steve McLendon at Defensive Tackle 1 yr/$405,000 2011 2012
Mewelde Moore at Running Back 1 yr/$575,000 2011 2012
Greg Warren at Long Snapper 2 yr/$1,620,000 2012 2013
Cortez Allen at Cornerback 4 yr/$2,432,000 2014 2015
Larry Foote at Linebacker 3 yr/$9,300,000 2012 2013
William Gay at Cornerback 1 yr/$685,000 2011 2012
Chris Carter at Linebacker 4 yr/$2,204,000 2014 2015
Stevenson Sylvester at Linebacker 3 yr/$1,332,000 2012 2013
Byron Leftwich at Quarterback 1 yr/$1,750,000 2011 2012


Probably going to get cut/not be back....

Ike Taylor at Cornerback 4 yr/$28,000,000 2014 2015
Hines Ward at Wide Receiver 5 yr/$24,850,000 2013 2014
Aaron Smith at Defensive End 5 yr/$24,500,000 2011 2012
Casey Hampton at Tackle 3 yr/$21,300,000 2012 2013
Chris Kemoeatu at Guard 5 yr/$20,000,000 2013 2014
Brett Keisel at Defensive End 5 yr/$18,885,000 2013 2014
James Farrior at Linebacker 5 yr/$18,250,000 2012 2013
Ryan Clark at Safety 4 yr/$17,000,000 2013 2014
Shaun Suisham at Kicker 4 yr/$6,300,000 2014 2015
Chris Hoke at Tackle 1 yr/$810,000 2011 2012
Daniel Sepulveda at Punter 1 yr/$650,000 2011 2012
Bryant McFadden at Cornerback 3 yr/$7,500,000 2012 2013
Baron Batch at Running Back 4 yr/$2,086,512 2014 2015
Dorian Brooks at Guard 2 yr/$725,000 2011 2012

On the fence....

Will Allen at Cornerback 3 yr/$4,400,000 2012 2013
Arnez Battle at Wide Receiver 3 yr/$3,900,000 2012 2013
Mike Wallace at Wide Receiver 3 yr/$1,700,000 2011 2012
Trai Essex at Tackle 1 yr/$810,000 2011 2012
Max Starks at Tackle 1 yr/$810,000 2011 2012
Charlie Batch at Quarterback 2 yr/$1,720,000 2011 2012


Not enough info to make a call on.....

Curtis Brown at Cornerback 4 yr/$2,560,000 2014 2015
Weslye Saunders at Tight End 3 yr/$1,474,000 2013 2014
David Johnson at Tight End 3 yr/$1,218,200 2011 2012
Dennis Dixon at Quarterback 1 yr/$1,200,000 2011 2012



Steelfan maybe you can give some insight on the back end of the roster, I have never heard of a lot of those guys.

[The Excellector]

Well, they have to keep the young CB that was starting opposite Taylor, don't they? Which Allen was that?

[Irish Raven]

Cortez Allen
I don't know anything realy about him, wikipedia has him 6 ft 1 in, 197 lb and fourth round pick from The Citadel, The Military College of South Carolina

Ike Taylor stands out on that list, seven million a year
He was excellent against us Week One and he's normally a decent CB but got embarressed last night. For that salary, that'll get you cut

On the fence....

Max Starks at Tackle 1 yr/$810,000 2011 2012

I think Starks comes back, they cut him in July but brought him back in October as Jonathan Scott was becoming a liability
He's an adequate tackle, not old at 29 going on thirty. They brought him back for a reason and if his demands are not high, he's a low risk value player

[Corey]

Cortez Allen
I don't know anything realy about him, wikipedia has him 6 ft 1 in, 197 lb and fourth round pick from The Citadel, The Military College of South Carolina

Ike Taylor stands out on that list, seven million a year
He was excellent against us Week One and he's normally a decent CB but got embarressed last night. For that salary, that'll get you cut



I think Starks comes back, they cut him in July but brought him back in October as Jonathan Scott was becoming a liability
He's an adequate tackle, not old at 29 going on thirty. They brought him back for a reason and if his demands are not high, he's a low risk value player

Considering that he was covering Evans for most of that game, I think its hard to determine that. In hindsight, given what Evans has done, I don't think its a stretch to say that he just drew an easy assignment. And Evans poor play made him look good.