Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

[52decleetzu]

Projected with cap numbers

Quarterback: (3)

Ben Roethilsberger....16,920,000 UC
Dennis Dixon..............1,000,000 UFA
Charlie Batch..............1,000,000 UFA

Sub Total - 18,920,000

Running Back: (5)

Rashard Mendenhall.....3,427,500 UC
Issac Redman.................540,000 EFA
Mewelde Moore.............1,000,000 UFA
Jonathan Dwyer...............565,948 UC
David Johnson..............1,260,000 RFA

Sub Total - 6,793,448

Offensive Line: (10)

Maurkice Pouncey...........2,166,750 UC
Marcus Gilbert...................733,503 UC
Jonathan Scott...............2,700,000 UC
Ramon Foster.................1,260,000 RFA
Doug Legursky................1,260,000 RFA
Trai Essex.......................1,000,000 UFA
Jamon Meredith..................800,000 UC
Willie Colon.....................5,700,000 UC
Greg Warren.......................925,000 UC
Max Starks?.....................1,000,000 UFA

Sub Total - 17,545,253

Tight End: (3)

Heath Miller.....................7,070,500 UC
Weslye Saunders................466,333 UC
UDFA.................................100,000 N/A

Sub Total - 7,636,833

Wide Receiver: (5)

Mike Wallace....................2,750,000 RFA
Antonio Brown.....................564,359 UC
Emmanuel Sanders..............735,357 UC
Jerricho Cotchery..............1,000,000 UFA
Arnez Battle.....................1,362,500 UC

Sub Total - 6,412,216

Defensive End: (4)

Evander Hood...................1,728,535 UC
Cameron Heyward.............1,523,870 UC
Draft Pick(2)........................700,000 N/A
Draft Pick (5).......................400,000 N/A

Sub Total - 4,352,405

Defensive Tackle: (4)

Steve McLendon...................540,000 EFA
Draft Pick (1).....................1,200,000 N/A
Draft Pick (6)........................300,000 N/A
UDFA....................................100,000 N/A

Sub Total - 2,140,000

Outside Linebacker: (4)

LaMarr Woodley..................11,500,000 UC
James Harrison.....................9,030,000 UC
Jason Worilds..........................895,000 UC
Chris Carter............................505,700 UC

Sub Total - 21,930,700

Inside Linebacker: (3)

Lawrence Timmons................9,125,000 UC
Farrior/Foote.........................3,825,000 UC
Stevenson Sylvester.................578,854 UC

Sub total - 13,528,854

Corner: (6)

Keenan Lewis.......................1,260,000 RFA
William Gay.........................1,250,000 UFA
Curtis Brown...........................595,300 UC
Cortez Allen............................562,875 UC
Draft Pick(4)............................400,000 N/A
Draft Pick (7)...........................100,000 N/A

Sub Total - 4,168,175

Safety: (4)

Troy Polamalu.......................8,887,500 UC
Ryan Clark............................4,250,000 UC
Ryan Mundy..........................1,260,000 RFA
Draft Pick(3)............................600,000 N/A

Sub Total - 14,997,500

Kicker and Punter: (2)

Kicker......................................750,000 N/A
Punter......................................400,000 N/A

Sub Total - 1,150,000

Now all that comes out to around $117 million for the top 51 salaries. I used the bare minimum for every RFA and draft pick, when I think that will be a little higher. I also used the bare minimum for every UFA they bring back, and that could also easily be higher by a couple million.

They already have dead money of 2.4 million from previous years to add to that. So let's just say they are at $120 million when you factor that in. The final question is how much dead money are they going to have from all the cuts they have to make this year, and I don't know the answer to that right now. It is probably going to be around $6-8 million which would then put them slightly over the projected cap of $122. Then they are going to have to restructure some deals to make up for that space.

So the question is Steelfan, how does that team on paper compare to this year?

Also one note on Colon who you thought would get cut....there are virtually no savings by cutting him (900k). Being that you would have to replace him with new salary it doesn't make any sense to cut him. I also just noticed Ike Taylor is not on that list, and I think it is going to come down to either him or Clark being back. Taylor has a whopping 7.4 cap number with about 2.125 savings if he is cut, and Clark is at 4.25 cap number and 1.75 in savings.

Due to the cap situation it would make sense to keep Clark, he makes less and plays a position you can survive longer. And if you put Taylor on there and cut Clark, you have to add another $3 million to the numbers I posted. Problem is of you cut Taylor that cap hit is gonna be big since he just signed recently. I think that is going to be one of the toughest decisions to make. You really could afford "on the field" to lose Clark more, but cap wise you need to get rid of Taylor's huge salary. Also without Taylor the CB group is probably one of the worst in the NFL, you need him. But without Clark you can get by with a younger safety and Polamalu on the back end much easier.

But I think this is the team you are likely to see, only change might be substituting Taylor for Clark. And maybe an Oline draft pick substituting for one of those guys listed on the 53 man.

One thing about restructuring all the big contracts again, if that happens you are likely to have about $70-75 million in salary tied up in your top 6 players in 2013. Right now they make up about $58 million for 2012 with no restructuring.

[SteelFaninBMore]

Thanks for crunching the numbers. I thought they might save a little more than that from dumping Colon - that said, I agree with you now that they'll hold onto him.

The Clark vs Taylor decision is going to be tough. The reason I went the way I did, my gut tells me that Clark would be willing to take a paycut to stay on the team, whereas Taylor probably wouldn't budge, and that would force the front office to let him walk. Either way it's going to hurt the secondary, although the loss of Taylor will be a bigger blow than Clark.

That secondary will be pretty awful. LeBeau can go a long way towards covering that up with a great pass rush - this year they were only 17th in sacks. Hell, that's how LeBeau has been covering up the weaknesses in the secondary for years. I would think having a healthy Harrison and Woodley together all season could make a difference there. But the defense will be a shell of itself, and will give up a lot more yards and points.

If I were the front office, I would turn my focus to the offense then. If they address the line early in the draft, and Pouncey and Colon can stay healthy, there's a lot of potential there between Ben, Wallace, Brown, Sanders, Cotchery, and Miller. Not saying they could be Green Bay or New Orleans, but they could certainly be a top 5 scoring team, like Carolina, San Diego, and Atlanta this season (all around 25 ppg). That can help cancel out the defensive drop off, and a top unit won't be necessary. That seems to be the way Goodell wants it anyway, might as well change with the times. They could still win enough games to be in contention for a wildcard.

The silver lining is that this rebuilding/reloading period comes at a time where the AFC is not as strong as it was the last few years. The Colts are down, the Jets are imploding (unless they somehow land Manning). The powerhouses for the forseeable future look to be New England and Baltimore, and then a considerable drop-off to a log-jam of second-tier teams, that should include Pittsburgh. 9 wins next year could still get a #6 seed, as it did this year.

EDIT: The second silver lining is that this will probably shake off a lot of the bandwagoners that have been clinging to Pittsburgh since 2004-2005. They can go be Packers fans now...or hey, maybe even Ravens fans.

[52decleetzu]

Thanks for crunching the numbers. I thought they might save a little more than that from dumping Colon - that said, I agree with you know that they'll hold onto him.

The Clark vs Taylor decision is going to be tough. The reason I went the way I did, my gut tells me that Clark would be willing to take a paycut to stay on the team, whereas Taylor probably wouldn't budge, and that would force the front office to let him walk. Either way it's going to hurt the secondary, although the loss of Taylor will be a bigger blow than Clark.

That secondary will be pretty awful. LeBeau can go a long way towards covering that up with a great pass rush - this year they were only 17th in sacks. Hell, that's how LeBeau has been covering up the weaknesses in the secondary for years. I would think having a healthy Harrison and Woodley together all season could make a difference there. But the defense will be a shell of itself, and will give up a lot more yards and points.

If I were the front office, I would turn my focus to the offense then. If they address the line early in the draft, and Pouncey and Colon can stay healthy, there's a lot of potential there between Ben, Wallace, Brown, Sanders, Cotchery, and Miller. Not saying they could be Green Bay or New Orleans, but they could certainly be a top 5 scoring team, like Carolina, San Diego, and Atlanta this season (all around 25 ppg). That can help cancel out the defensive drop off, and a top unit won't be necessary. That seems to be the way Goodell wants it anyway, might as well change with the times. They could still win enough games to be in contention for a wildcard.

The silver lining is that this rebuilding/reloading period comes at a time where the AFC is not as strong as it was the last few years. The Colts are down, the Jets are imploding (unless they somehow land Manning). The powerhouses for the forseeable future look to be New England and Baltimore, and then a considerable drop-off to a log-jam of second-tier teams, that should include Pittsburgh. 9 wins next year could still get a #6 seed, as it did this year.

EDIT: The second silver lining is that this will probably shake off a lot of the bandwagoners that have been clinging to Pittsburgh since 2004-2005. They can go be Packers fans now...or hey, maybe even Ravens fans.

That is probably a good idea, but like you said the defense is going to suffer big time in that scenario. That is where all the cuts will be coming from, and if you spend the high draft picks on an Oline or two the Dline especially at NT and the secondary is going to be hurting. Either way it looks like it will be a very young inexperienced group, with your 1A pass rusher Harrison declining rapidly at age 34. (was only 9 sacks because of injury or age?)

Now that is assuming that the guy(s) you get for the Oline can step right in and play...well. If not we could see the same protection issues all over again. I would expect them to go Oline early and replace a tackle, but then again I and most Steeler fans have thought that for 2 years now. I don't think they can ignore it anymore though with Ben looking like a very old 30 right now. Take the best OT on the board at 24 and call it a day. Take the best NT on the board in the 2nd, that is another desperate position. Fill in the other defensive holes with the rest of the draft and do the best you can.

Very good offense, suspect defense probably gets you 7-9 to 9-7 record, and then take it from there in 2013.

[SteelFaninBMore]

Very good offense, suspect defense probably gets you 7-9 to 9-7 record, and then take it from there in 2013.

My thoughts exactly. Good discussion. This thread will be exhibit A the next time I get asked why a Steelers fan is posting on a Ravens board. Because you don't get this info on Steeler boards. Most of them don't even acknowledge that a cap problem exists, and the few that do (like scout) believe it's overblown and the front office will magically fix it and keep the whole roster intact.

[Boulderraven]

Informative thread, but do you guys really think they cut Ike Taylor? He just signed a big 4 year deal and had a good season. Keisel too? I could see them cutting or at least restructuring Heath Miller, 7 million is a lot for a aging TE.
I could see another team placing a claim on Wallace, giving up a first for him if he is only scheduled to make about 3 million.

[KidSampson]

My thoughts exactly. Good discussion. This thread will be exhibit A the next time I get asked why a Steelers fan is posting on a Ravens board. Because you don't get this info on Steeler boards. Most of them don't even acknowledge that a cap problem exists, and the few that do (like scout) believe it's overblown and the front office will magically fix it and keep the whole roster intact.

Be careful. You might get deported from the "Nation."

[sailorsam]

[QUOTE=SteelFaninBMore;397842]
That seems to be the way Goodell wants it anyway, might as well change with the times. They could still win enough games to be in contention for a wildcard.

The silver lining is that this rebuilding/reloading period comes at a time where the AFC is not as strong as it was the last few years. The Colts are down, the Jets are imploding (unless they somehow land Manning). The powerhouses for the forseeable future look to be New England and Baltimore, and then a considerable drop-off to a log-jam of second-tier teams, that should include Pittsburgh. 9 wins next year could still get a #6 seed, as it did this year.

QUOTE]

Cinci might be the next power, and maybe the Raiders. one day the Chargers might get their act together (after they fire Norv). doubt Miami, Buff, Cleve, Indi, Jax will do much soon.

[52decleetzu]

Informative thread, but do you guys really think they cut Ike Taylor? He just signed a big 4 year deal and had a good season. Keisel too? I could see them cutting or at least restructuring Heath Miller, 7 million is a lot for a aging TE.
I could see another team placing a claim on Wallace, giving up a first for him if he is only scheduled to make about 3 million.

I don't see how you can cut your top corner you just gave a long term deal to either. Problem is as I laid out earlier they are so pressed against the cap something has to give. They will have to restructure him at the least, along with the other top 6 contracts. And all that does is just push money to next year. The cap numbers for their top guys are already huge because they restructured a lot of them last year to get under the cap. If they do it again it is just going to be worse for 2013. Miller isn't going anywhere either he is one of their core players, and at 29 years old I wouldn't call that old or aging.

[52decleetzu]

Steelfan I totally forgot about Brett Keisel, what do you think about him? Another guy just like Ike who is old, locked up for a long time and the best at his respective position by a long shot. Has a big cap number with very little savings if cut (4.5 cap number would only free up 1.15 extra if they cut him).

Those numbers dictate they almost have to keep him, but again they just don't have the money. Plus you have Heyward and Hood right behind him 10 years younger and high draft picks?

[The Excellector]

Where the Steelers could take a hit is with their veteran leadership. When Baltimore released, McGahee, Heap, Mason and Gregg, they still had the type of quality veteran leadership to lend itself to overcoming the hurdles of youth. The question will be whether or not the Steelers will be able to do the same. A great player does not automatically make a leader. Chris McAlister was a great player. Chris McAlister was not a great leader.

[52decleetzu]

Here is an update with some stuff I have been reading....

Projected with cap numbers

Quarterback: (3)

Ben Roethilsberger....16,920,000 UC
Dennis Dixon..............1,000,000 UFA
Charlie Batch..............1,000,000 UFA

Sub Total - 18,920,000

Running Back: (5)

Rashard Mendenhall.....3,427,500 UC
Issac Redman.................540,000 EFA
Mewelde Moore.............1,000,000 UFA
Jonathan Dwyer...............565,948 UC
David Johnson..............1,260,000 RFA

Sub Total - 6,793,448

Offensive Line: (10)

Maurkice Pouncey...........2,166,750 UC
Marcus Gilbert...................733,503 UC
Jonathan Scott...............2,700,000 UC
Ramon Foster.................1,260,000 RFA
Doug Legursky................1,260,000 RFA
Trai Essex.......................1,000,000 UFA
Jamon Meredith..................800,000 UC
Willie Colon.....................5,700,000 UC
Greg Warren.......................925,000 UC
Max Starks?.....................1,000,000 UFA

Sub Total - 17,545,253

Tight End: (3)

Heath Miller.....................7,070,500 UC
Weslye Saunders................466,333 UC
Draft Pick(5)......................400,000 N/A

Sub Total - 7,936,833

Wide Receiver: (5)

Mike Wallace....................2,750,000 RFA
Antonio Brown.....................564,359 UC
Emmanuel Sanders..............735,357 UC
Jerricho Cotchery..............1,000,000 UFA
Arnez Battle.....................1,362,500 UC

Sub Total - 6,412,216

Defensive End: (4)

Brett Keisel...................4,500,000 UC
Evander Hood...................1,728,535 UC
Cameron Heyward.............1,523,870 UC
Draft Pick(2)........................700,000 N/A


Sub Total - 8,452,405

Defensive Tackle: (4)

Steve McLendon...................540,000 EFA
Draft Pick (1).....................1,200,000 N/A
Draft Pick (6)........................300,000 N/A
UDFA....................................100,000 N/A

Sub Total - 2,140,000

Outside Linebacker: (4)

LaMarr Woodley....................7,100,000 UC (restructure)
James Harrison.....................9,030,000 UC
Jason Worilds..........................895,000 UC
Chris Carter............................505,700 UC

Sub Total - 17,530,700

Inside Linebacker: (3)

Lawrence Timmons..............5,125,000 UC (restructure)
Farrior/Foote.........................3,825,000 UC
Stevenson Sylvester.................578,854 UC

Sub total - 9,528,854

Corner: (6)

Keenan Lewis.......................1,260,000 RFA
William Gay.........................1,250,000 UFA
Curtis Brown...........................595,300 UC
Cortez Allen............................562,875 UC
Draft Pick(4)............................400,000 N/A
Draft Pick (7)...........................100,000 N/A

Sub Total - 4,168,175

Safety: (4)

Troy Polamalu.......................8,887,500 UC
Ryan Clark............................4,250,000 UC
Ryan Mundy..........................1,260,000 RFA
Draft Pick(3)............................600,000 N/A

Sub Total - 14,997,500

Kicker and Punter: (2)

Shaun Suisham.......................1,687,500 N/A
Punter......................................400,000 N/A

Sub Total - 2,087,500

Now that all adds up to 116,512,884 with all 53 players. Say 116 million with just the top 51 players. Add in the 2.4 million for dead money and we are up to about 118.4 million. Add in 6 million for dead money for the guys they release and they are at 124.4 million, probably exactly where the cap is going to be at. They got a big time relief of about 8 million with the Woodley and Timmons restructures due to roster bonuses built into the contract that can be converted to signing bonus and spread out over the remaining years.


-Woodley and Timmons can restructure, adding about 1 to 1.5 million to each of their cap numbers for the next 4-5 years or so.

-Suisham is no savings if cut really, and with 3 years on the deal he is likely to be back from what I read.

-Keisel coming back even though he is 34, again minimal savings if cut.

[The Excellector]

Didn't Woodley and Timmons just sign their new extensions?

[52decleetzu]

Didn't Woodley and Timmons just sign their new extensions?

Yes, and that is what makes them prime candidates for restructuring, with money not paid out yet that can be converted to signing bonus...

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/01...ons-contracts/

LOL at the website blocking copying the text. Only in Pittsburgh SMH.

[Reedpixuoff]

Reading all this stuff about the Steelers got me interested in the Ravens cap situation. I'm certainly no cap expert so I did a lot of digging through bmoreravor's columns, rotoworld, and spotrac to come up with these #'s.

QB:
Joe Flacco - 8,000,000 (No idea what his cap # is due to incentives)
Tyrod Taylor - 491,275

RB:
Ricky Williams - 1,575,000 (1.4m in incentives could increase this # if they're LTBE)
Anthony Allen - 477,500
Vonta Leach - 4,333,333

WR:
Anquan Boldin - 8,000,000
Lee Evans - 5,507,500 (The restructure makes this a bit confusing)
Torrey Smith - 765,725
David Reed - 584,667
Tandon Doss - 568,140

TE:
Ed Dickson - 760,833
Dennis Pitta - 663,667

OL:
Bryant McKinnie- 4,000,000
Marshal Yanda - 6,500,000
Michael Oher - 2,040,000
Jah Reid - 605,810
Ramon Harewood - 564,723

DL:
Haloti Ngata - 10,400,000
Terrence Cody - 820,000
Arthur Jones - 584,500
Pernell McPhee - 501,140

LB:
Terrell Suggs - 11,520,000
Ray Lewis - 6,850,000
Paul Kruger - 865,000

CB:
Jimmy Smith - 1,695,500
Chris Carr - 3,750,000
Domonique Foxworth - 8,600,000
Emanuel Cook - 540,000
Chykie Brown - 501,140

S:
Ed Reed - 8,500,000
Bernard Pollard - 2,585,000

S/T:
Billy Cundiff - 2,800,000
Sam Koch - 2,000,000

Dead Money:
Willis McGahee - 3,750,000
Kelly Gregg - 789,000


Total Value: 112,489,453


Restricted Free Agents:
Lardarius Webb
Cary Williams
Dannell Ellerbe
Danny Gorrer

Unrestricted Free Agents:
Ray Rice
Ben Grubbs
Matt Birk
Andre Gurode
Kris Wilson
Cory Redding
Jarret Johnson
Jameel McClain
Brendon Ayanbadejo
Brandon Mckinney
Haruki Nakamura
Tom Zbikowski

Exclusive Rights Free Agents: (I'm assuming all these guys are EFA's)
Morgan Cox
Sergio Kindle
Matt Lawrence
Justin Boren
Albert McClellan
Michael McAdoo
Chavis Williams
LaQuan Williams


* Cutting Foxworth and Evans should save us close to 10m against the cap
* If Ed Reed decides to Retire or gets released we would save another 7.2m.
* The projected 120m salary cap for 2012 could be closer to 130m for the Ravens if they used the loophole illustrated below by bmoreravor

If the Ravens choose not to, or fail to, sign anyone to a contract extension by late November, they still have options with the surplus Cap space. As they (and many other teams) have done in the past, they can renegotiate some contracts by inserting "phony” incentives into those deals allowing them to carry any excess 2011 Salary Cap space over into 2012, thereby increasing their 2012 Cap space.

This loophole, which existed in the prior CBA, was not closed by the new CBA, so teams still have the ability to carry excess Salary Cap room from year to year. This is accomplished by renegotiating a contract (or contracts) during the season and writing in Not Likely To Be Earned (NLTBE) incentives.

Normally, NLTBE incentives do not count against the 2011 Cap, but – for some reason – the CBA says that they do if they are added during the season. As such, the full amount of those incentives immediately counts against the 2011 Cap, essentially eating up the excess Cap space. If unearned – and they would be written so that they would go unearned – the team receives a credit the following year for those unearned incentives. As such, that amount would be carried over into 2012 and would increase the team’s Cap space.

http://ravens24x7.com/columns/The-Mo...ound-cap-space

[steelerhater]

My thoughts exactly. Good discussion. This thread will be exhibit A the next time I get asked why a Steelers fan is posting on a Ravens board. Because you don't get this info on Steeler boards. Most of them don't even acknowledge that a cap problem exists, and the few that do (like scout) believe it's overblown and the front office will magically fix it and keep the whole roster intact.

As long as they have Big Ben and the trio of young receivers they will remain competitive. They will probably cut some guys and then resign them for more cap-friendly deals. Nothing to see here.

[KidSampson]

As long as they have Big Ben and the trio of young receivers they will remain competitive. They will probably cut some guys and then resign them for more cap-friendly deals. Nothing to see here.

They may not keep Wallace, though. I could see a team giving up a first for him.

[Boulderraven]

I have seen 2 figures, the Ravens have either about 7-8 million or 5-6 million to drag from the cap of 2011 into 2012? Wonder which is more accurate? Also Foxworth will be cut, Evans likely restructured or cut? If so that leaves the Ravens about anywhere between 25 million to 30 million under the cap to ink Rice, Grubbs and center. The rough call will be JJ, he will be 31 in August, doubt he will cost that much, based on age and he isn't really a pass rusher which earns $. Ravens are in good shape. Especially compared to the Steelers, about a 50+ million difference.

[Boulderraven]

They may not keep Wallace, though. I could see a team giving up a first for him.

Another team could offer a bigger contract to Wallace, though forcing them to match it, hurting their cap situation worse. I bet the Patriots go for it, they have no deep threat and 2 late number 1 picks. Typical Patriot move, or maybe the Bengals, they are losing Simpson and have lots of cap space and 2 number 1 picks also. Good way to strengthen your team and hurt rival.

[Dball41]

There is no chance that they cut Ike Taylor. And frankly, it makes me question the intelligence of the Steelers fan who has been posting in this thread if he even thinks that is a remote possibility.

Ike is the best CB they have, by far. Yeah, he had the worst game of his career against the Donks, but that was an outlier. Anyone who follows the Steelers closely would know that he performed at a pro-bowl level against the opposing teams #1 receivers. He was snubbed, much like Webb of the Ravens.

[PeterB58]

Ike is the best CB they have, by far. Yeah, he had the worst game of his career against the Donks, but that was an outlier. Anyone who follows the Steelers closely would know that he performed at a pro-bowl level against the opposing teams #1 receivers. He was snubbed, much like Webb of the Ravens.

I agree. Taylor was (a) put in a real vulnerable spot by LeBeua against the Broncos and (b) got zero help from Palomalu deep over the middle. Taylor had a bad game, but it wasn't all his fault, imo.