Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

[52decleetzu]

There is no chance that they cut Ike Taylor. And frankly, it makes me question the intelligence of the Steelers fan who has been posting in this thread if he even thinks that is a remote possibility.

Ike is the best CB they have, by far. Yeah, he had the worst game of his career against the Donks, but that was an outlier. Anyone who follows the Steelers closely would know that he performed at a pro-bowl level against the opposing teams #1 receivers. He was snubbed, much like Webb of the Ravens.

They won't cut Taylor for the simple fact they just gave him a long term deal and they wouldn't save that much by dumping him, or should I say what they would save would be the going rate for a starting corner so it would be a wash.

I do find it funny that according to all these people who have no clue about the cap, almost every single player is coming back - just at a reduced rate, when they are $30 million over the cap. It can't happen, and heads will roll. We just don't know which ones. Something has to give.

[The Excellector]

It will be difficult for the Steelers to continuously convince players to restructure their deals.

[SteelFaninBMore]

There is no chance that they cut Ike Taylor. And frankly, it makes me question the intelligence of the Steelers fan who has been posting in this thread if he even thinks that is a remote possibility.

Ike is the best CB they have, by far. Yeah, he had the worst game of his career against the Donks, but that was an outlier. Anyone who follows the Steelers closely would know that he performed at a pro-bowl level against the opposing teams #1 receivers. He was snubbed, much like Webb of the Ravens.

Hope you're right, and I agree that Taylor is the by far the best DB, even including the game against Denver.

Still, I think his cap number is an issue, and I don't see Taylor as a guy who'll be very receptive to re-working his deal to stay on the team - he already gave Pittsburgh a little bit of a hometown discount when he re-signed, not sure if he's going to want to give up any more. As 52 said, this defense is going to look a lot different next year, and more than a couple familiar faces will be gone. Just a question of who.

[52decleetzu]

Well Bouchette has written this article, which infers that the cap will be $124 million, NOT the $128 million the Steelers Lounge analysis projected. I still find some of these articles funny that say this...

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12022/1204978-66-0.stm

The Steelers are $25 million over the roughly $124 million salary cap that will go into effect March 13. That, Steelers president Art Rooney said Tuesday, will call for some tough decisions. What makes some particularly difficult are the long and distinguished careers that either will end or reach their Pittsburgh end soon.

Candidates on defense to be released and their scheduled 2012 salaries that would vanish if they are: Aaron Smith ($2.1 million), Bryant McFadden ($2.5 million), James Farrior ($2.82 million), Casey Hampton ($4.89 million), and Larry Foote ($3 million).

Releasing those five would whittle $15.31 million from their salary cap. In addition, William Gay and Chris Hoke will be unrestricted free agents.

That comes to four starters, whether you count McFadden on opening day or Gay, who replaced him; a virtual starter in Foote; and a longtime starter-capable backup in Hoke.

Poof, $15 million erased from the cap!

Are they challenged at math?

That saves $15 million. Great! Now you have another $20 million to go when you add in $3.5 million for draft picks, another $5 million or so from dead money, and another $10 million for your EFA's and RFA's. Because they are not included in that number because they aren't signed right now.

Then they talk about can they afford to lose JUST those guys in one year?

But can the Steelers afford to lose so much on defense, not only in physical talent but in the intangibles that many of those players bring, all at once?

LOL. They then list half the defense as "untouchable", but fail to realize THEY HAVE NO MONEY to pay them. Even with the restructures of the two big contracts they still need to cut another big chunk of change. Where is that coming from?

I love the homerism displayed by Ed though, only in Pittsburgh can you keep your head in the clouds and not deal with reality..

They might, for example, want to keep either Farrior or Foote, perhaps see which one might play for much less in 2012. Gay also has become a valuable cornerback for them. If they believe Keenan Lewis or one of the two rookies, Curtis Brown or Cortez Allen, are not yet ready to start, they may try to re-sign Gay.

Farrior could be brought back for one more season of transition for the defense; or Foote, another recognized leader and 51/2 years younger, might be the one.

Hampton, on the other hand, escaped without needing surgery on his ACL knee injury from the playoff game in Denver. However, his salary and his role as a part-timer who plays only in the 3-4 base defense could prompt a parting of the ways. They could ask him to take a drastically reduced salary but Hampton has never come across as one willing to do that.

Bring em all back!! Maybe they will pay for free.

The outlook for next year according to Ed..

When the smoke clears, what kind of defense might they have? Perhaps not one much different than what they had in 2011.

Keep hope alive Ed, keep hope alive brother.

[madmikey]

It will be difficult for the Steelers to continuously convince players to restructure their deals.

No it won't. Restructures are always in the player's favor. They make the same amount of money. They just get more as a bonus which means they see more money sooner.

Paying more as a bonus instead of as salary allows the team to spread the money over the long-term course of the contract, which reduces the cap hit in the current year, but adds to the cap pain down the road.

The Steelers will have to cut a large number of aging vets. Frankly from a pure play perspective I don't think it will hurt them a ton. Guys like Hampton, Farrior, Smith, Hoke and McFadden aren't what they used to be.

Smith and Hoke will likely retire. McFadden finished as the 4th CB and barely played so he'll be gone. Hampton was a part-time player and will be gone. Farrior was a part-time player and will be cut (possibly re-signed at a much lower salary). Foote could very well be gone too. Sylvester should be starting at ILB.

They aren't going to cut Taylor. I don't know why anyone would even suggest that. They could allow Gay to walk. Lewis played well and they have a couple of young corners they like. Gay played decently though, so he may stick - all depends on money.

Starks will be cut. Gilbert will be the new LT, Colon will be the RT.

With Wallace it all depends on money. Until his second-half slump I thought there was no way they'd let him walk. Now I could see it happening. By the end of the season Brown was the better receiver and it's not like Wallace was getting constant double coverage. They also really like Sanders and I could see them going with Brown and Sanders at WR and running the ball more - especially with Arians gone. Ward is pretty much a guaranteed cut.

[52decleetzu]

Seems as Hines doesn't quite "get it" about his contract and how he could possible be back. Restructuring and pushing money off into next year just isn't going to be an option.

Some quotes in here also show how bad the cap situation really is. Despite reports of "$20-25 million over" Hines (who I think would know a lot better than anyone else) says it is $30 million....closer to my number.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12034/1207805-66.stm

INDIANAPOLIS -- Hines Ward talked to Mike Tomlin on Monday at the Steelers facility on the South Side and to team president Art Rooney II earlier, letting them know he wants to play in 2012 in Pittsburgh.

"I just wanted to let them know I want to be here, I want to play," said Ward, who on Sunday will be part of NBC's five-hour Super Bowl pregame show. "I have two years on my contact. I know I have to restructure, but, under the circumstances, I think I can still play football."

"We have so many issues, we're $30 million over the cap," Ward said. "We have to figure a way to get that down. My cap number is not huge if I restructure [$4 million in salary]. There's like 10 other guys they have to get. "They really didn't say [definitively]. It wasn't good, it wasn't bad. We were just talking."

Hines let me explain this to you, a restructure is not a "pay cut". The only way for you to be back is to release you and then sign you to a vet minimum deal. There won't be any restructures of your contract bud.

Oh and I like how he mentions the TEN other guys that are going to have to redo their deals. If the Steelers are smart they will just purge now, because if they restructure all these deals AGAIN, the cap numbers for 2013 are going to be astronomical and the roster will end up being top heavy with no depth.

Sometimes you have to just bite the bullet.

[Ravenblue]

What Hines 'doesn't get' could fill a library.

[lovefootball]

Don't laugh at Hines, one day he will be a mayor for some town in S Korea.Might be sooner then expected if he isn't retained by the steelers.

[madmikey]

The only way Ward will be a Steeler is if they cut him and he comes back at a much lower salary. The Steelers have no incentive to push next year's salary off for him, since it's not guaranteed. Why push it off when they can save the whole thing now?

Hampton's ACL surgery also pretty much guarantees he will be cut. Hoke has already retired. Smith will likely be next once the Steelers opt not to bring him back.

[Complex]

What? The boards I am active on acknowledge it plainly. How many threads does there need to be for an "acknowldgement." One or two threads should suffice for a single topic. Yes, some guys will be gone. What do you want to see? A thousand threads lamenting the situation? No matter what happens with the roster, I will say the Steelers will be competitive. And the Ravens and Steelers games will be as competitive as ever. Especially if the players we do have remain healthy, I am looking forward to seeing Roethlisberger not get maimed for once.

The cap will work itself out, it has to. And yes, you are right, this Ravens board has better information than a Steelers board. No question. Because Ravens fans know the Steelers better than the Steelers fans. Typical fan-base sensationalism and fantastic statements with no basis in reality. I don't get why some fans think they are always better than other fans. The best is term is "class act." Whenever I hear that I just roll my eyes. And yes, some Steelers fans are guilty of that stuff too.

My thoughts exactly. Good discussion. This thread will be exhibit A the next time I get asked why a Steelers fan is posting on a Ravens board. Because you don't get this info on Steeler boards. Most of them don't even acknowledge that a cap problem exists, and the few that do (like scout) believe it's overblown and the front office will magically fix it and keep the whole roster intact.

[Complex]

The word is he stated he would be willing to accept a diminished role with a pay cut. He does want to come back, that much is known for sure. I hope he does, he still has the ability to make key plays. But as we know, with the advent of some youth on the team, he has not had as much opportunity. Cotchery wants to come back too - which provides even more competition for playing time.

The only way Ward will be a Steeler is if they cut him and he comes back at a much lower salary. The Steelers have no incentive to push next year's salary off for him, since it's not guaranteed. Why push it off when they can save the whole thing now?

Hampton's ACL surgery also pretty much guarantees he will be cut. Hoke has already retired. Smith will likely be next once the Steelers opt not to bring him back.

[madmikey]

The word is he stated he would be willing to accept a diminished role with a pay cut. He does want to come back, that much is known for sure. I hope he does, he still has the ability to make key plays. But as we know, with the advent of some youth on the team, he has not had as much opportunity. Cotchery wants to come back too - which provides even more competition for playing time.

I don't believe the CBA allows him to agree to take less money outright, but I could be wrong. I would think the Players' Association would flip over that.

He could reach an agreement to be cut and then come back at whatever salary is agreed to - but I think technically he would still need to be cut - even if his intention all along is to come back to the Steelers. I guess it's really just semantics. He can just agree to be cut and come back at the vet minimum - I don't really see any other way it would work.

At the end of the day the cap issues won't have a major impact on the Steelers' starters - but it will mean they have to go with a young bench and lose some veteran leadership. They also won't be major players in FA - although that's really not a change from the norm.

[Complex]

You are correct. Nothing has been said yet though. Every team has their legacy players. As much as I like the guy, and respect what he has done and would love to see him come back, it might be best for him to leave on his terms. Meaning just retire with his record fresh in his memory and not leave it up to the Steelers organization. Sometimes players stick around too long.

I don't believe the CBA allows him to agree to take less money outright, but I could be wrong. I would think the Players' Association would flip over that.

He could reach an agreement to be cut and then come back at whatever salary is agreed to - but I think technically he would still need to be cut - even if his intention all along is to come back to the Steelers. I guess it's really just semantics. He can just agree to be cut and come back at the vet minimum - I don't really see any other way it would work.

At the end of the day the cap issues won't have a major impact on the Steelers' starters - but it will mean they have to go with a young bench and lose some veteran leadership. They also won't be major players in FA - although that's really not a change from the norm.

[madmikey]

Woodley just re-structured, saving $6.5 mill. this year. Likely the first of several restructures. And then come the cuts.

[Complex]

I hope this is not a double post - something went wonky when I replied - anyway . . .

McFadden an Battle were cut, saving about 3.5 more. It seems they have shaved about 10 million so far. More to come. . .

Woodley just re-structured, saving $6.5 mill. this year. Likely the first of several restructures. And then come the cuts.

[52decleetzu]

Only 20 more million to go.

And now Woodley is carrying massive cap numbers for the next 4 years. Starting Qb type cap numbers around 13 million.

[NCRAVEN]

Only 20 more million to go.

And now Woodley is carrying massive cap numbers for the next 4 years. Starting Qb type cap numbers around 13 million.

I don't know the details of it, are you saying they're just kicking the can down the road?

[madmikey]

I don't know the details of it, are you saying they're just kicking the can down the road?

Yes - that's the only way salary cap restructures work. The money still gets billed against the cap eventually. The goal is to kick it into one year where the team isn't really contending - then eat a bunch of it then.

[The Excellector]

Embrace the inevitable.

[pslholder96]

Now the word on the street says the rams have asked permission to speak to the Steelers "capologist" Omar Khan about their GM job. Interesting indeed. Don't have a link but read it on Profootballtalk.com