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  1. #73
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    Re: Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster



    Just wait and see how many Steelers fans switch teams after a bad season. That team has a lot of great fans but the bandwagon is overflowing with casual guys who will jump right off.
    He Who Dares.....Wins





  2. #74

    Re: Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by pickles View Post
    Just wasted 20 minutes of my life reading that thread. Good work, 52, but I don't know why you bother. Everything is fine in Pitt. in regards to the cap, and in Bal. we're in deep shit- depsite the fact that we have signifigantly more free money next year and into the future.

    P.S. And that Ian guy is a real ass. What is he, British? That would explain a lot.

    I have to admit I didn't intend to get into that back and forth, but when that idiot kept it going I wasn't backing down. I was off work and bored and had nothing better to do waiting for Sunday to come. Might as well have some fun with the inbreds.

    Ian has been like that for years on various boards, he is a know it all asshole homer. Even his own fans ridicule him on a regular basis, he is mocked all over the internet. You can see why. It was also funny how he has been championing Ike Taylor as one of the best CB's and so "underrated" by everyone else for like 5 years now, so that gave me some good ammo LOL.




  3. #75
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    Re: Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by 52decleetzu View Post
    I have to admit I didn't intend to get into that back and forth, but when that idiot kept it going I wasn't backing down. I was off work and bored and had nothing better to do waiting for Sunday to come. Might as well have some fun with the inbreds.

    Ian has been like that for years on various boards, he is a know it all asshole homer. Even his own fans ridicule him on a regular basis, he is mocked all over the internet. You can see why. It was also funny how he has been championing Ike Taylor as one of the best CB's and so "underrated" by everyone else for like 5 years now, so that gave me some good ammo LOL.
    Make sure you bookmark that thread. It will be fun to see what new excuses come up after the cuts begin.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  4. #76

    Re: Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

    I must admit, they are going to have some issues. They need some better pieces on the offensive line. Where are those pieces going to come from?
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  5. #77

    Re: Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    I must admit, they are going to have some issues. They need some better pieces on the offensive line. Where are those pieces going to come from?
    They are going to have to be cheap, older vets or guys off the street for the last 10 spots or so. There just isn't any other way around it.

    And make no mistake about it, Ian knows this. He just refuses to admit it to a "Ratbird fan". The others just don't have any clue what they are talking about, because not a damn on read the 20 PAGE summary from steelerslounge. They would just rather jump all over me and say "Yeah!!! Ian said it is going to be fine let me play with the numbers and show you how in 3 minutes."

    They were just circling the wagons and nothing more.

    They think all Steelers are Gods, the front office people are Gods that work magic, they will restructure every single vet who makes any kind of money (which they already did LAST year) and it will all be alright.

    I even said look the Steelers are going to be down a couple years but the will be back. What did I get back? "Are you crazy!! Down for a couple years are you nuts!!! We are the Steelers....we conquer all!! type stuff. They are the biggest bunch of spoiled arrogant brats I have ever encountered. (Except for Steelfan).




  6. #78

    Re: Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by KidSampson View Post
    I also love the trashing of the Ravens draft picks. Doss is a nothing fifth rounder, even though the same could be said about Wallace (or Brown) after his first year. McPhee and Kindle suck, but Ziggy Hood and Jason Worilds are totally ready to become starters LOL. These people have group cognitive dissonance. I guess I am proud not be a part of any "Nation."
    The one guy saying all that was obviously like 15 years old, and I really wasn't trying to get off the topic or waste my time with him. It was comical how little they knew about our depth guys and our cap situation, one they had not spent a second analyzing.

    Quote Originally Posted by KidSampson View Post
    I agree, that was a waste of time. That dude Ian took every opportunity to refute what 52 was saying and instead used it to insult him (pretty poorly). 52 got chippy back, but not on the same level (which would have gotten him banned).
    You see Ian was doing that on purpose because he works for the site, and can't get banned. He knows this and just was trying to bait me into saying something that could get me banned, but he is an idiot if he thought I was going to give him anything. I knew exactly what he was trying to do. Fail.




  7. #79

    Re: Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by KidSampson View Post
    I also love the trashing of the Ravens draft picks. Doss is a nothing fifth rounder, even though the same could be said about Wallace (or Brown) after his first year. McPhee and Kindle suck, but Ziggy Hood and Jason Worilds are totally ready to become starters LOL. These people have group cognitive dissonance. I guess I am proud not be a part of any "Nation."
    If anyone tries to tell us that McPhee sucks I'm going to laugh in their face. Asbolute beast of a situational pass rusher who came up with one of the best two plays in a row I've seen all year to end the Bengals game in Baltimore.
    UKRavenGordon's Gametrips

    2009 v Cleveland W
    2010 @ New York Jets W
    2011 (January 2012) @ New England AFCCG L







  8. #80

    Re: Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

    After reading all that i think i am officially dumber.

    I will say i know nothing about cap numbers or how contracts affect those numbers.




  9. #81

    Re: Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

    Projected with cap numbers

    Quarterback: (3)

    Ben Roethilsberger....16,920,000 UC
    Dennis Dixon..............1,000,000 UFA
    Charlie Batch..............1,000,000 UFA

    Sub Total - 18,920,000

    Running Back: (5)

    Rashard Mendenhall.....3,427,500 UC
    Issac Redman.................540,000 EFA
    Mewelde Moore.............1,000,000 UFA
    Jonathan Dwyer...............565,948 UC
    David Johnson..............1,260,000 RFA

    Sub Total - 6,793,448

    Offensive Line: (10)

    Maurkice Pouncey...........2,166,750 UC
    Marcus Gilbert...................733,503 UC
    Jonathan Scott...............2,700,000 UC
    Ramon Foster.................1,260,000 RFA
    Doug Legursky................1,260,000 RFA
    Trai Essex.......................1,000,000 UFA
    Jamon Meredith..................800,000 UC
    Willie Colon.....................5,700,000 UC
    Greg Warren.......................925,000 UC
    Max Starks?.....................1,000,000 UFA

    Sub Total - 17,545,253

    Tight End: (3)

    Heath Miller.....................7,070,500 UC
    Weslye Saunders................466,333 UC
    UDFA.................................100,000 N/A

    Sub Total - 7,636,833

    Wide Receiver: (5)

    Mike Wallace....................2,750,000 RFA
    Antonio Brown.....................564,359 UC
    Emmanuel Sanders..............735,357 UC
    Jerricho Cotchery..............1,000,000 UFA
    Arnez Battle.....................1,362,500 UC

    Sub Total - 6,412,216

    Defensive End: (4)

    Evander Hood...................1,728,535 UC
    Cameron Heyward.............1,523,870 UC
    Draft Pick(2)........................700,000 N/A
    Draft Pick (5).......................400,000 N/A

    Sub Total - 4,352,405

    Defensive Tackle: (4)

    Steve McLendon...................540,000 EFA
    Draft Pick (1).....................1,200,000 N/A
    Draft Pick (6)........................300,000 N/A
    UDFA....................................100,000 N/A

    Sub Total - 2,140,000

    Outside Linebacker: (4)

    LaMarr Woodley..................11,500,000 UC
    James Harrison.....................9,030,000 UC
    Jason Worilds..........................895,000 UC
    Chris Carter............................505,700 UC

    Sub Total - 21,930,700

    Inside Linebacker: (3)

    Lawrence Timmons................9,125,000 UC
    Farrior/Foote.........................3,825,000 UC
    Stevenson Sylvester.................578,854 UC

    Sub total - 13,528,854

    Corner: (6)

    Keenan Lewis.......................1,260,000 RFA
    William Gay.........................1,250,000 UFA
    Curtis Brown...........................595,300 UC
    Cortez Allen............................562,875 UC
    Draft Pick(4)............................400,000 N/A
    Draft Pick (7)...........................100,000 N/A

    Sub Total - 4,168,175

    Safety: (4)

    Troy Polamalu.......................8,887,500 UC
    Ryan Clark............................4,250,000 UC
    Ryan Mundy..........................1,260,000 RFA
    Draft Pick(3)............................600,000 N/A

    Sub Total - 14,997,500

    Kicker and Punter: (2)

    Kicker......................................750,000 N/A
    Punter......................................400,000 N/A

    Sub Total - 1,150,000

    Now all that comes out to around $117 million for the top 51 salaries. I used the bare minimum for every RFA and draft pick, when I think that will be a little higher. I also used the bare minimum for every UFA they bring back, and that could also easily be higher by a couple million.

    They already have dead money of 2.4 million from previous years to add to that. So let's just say they are at $120 million when you factor that in. The final question is how much dead money are they going to have from all the cuts they have to make this year, and I don't know the answer to that right now. It is probably going to be around $6-8 million which would then put them slightly over the projected cap of $122. Then they are going to have to restructure some deals to make up for that space.

    So the question is Steelfan, how does that team on paper compare to this year?

    Also one note on Colon who you thought would get cut....there are virtually no savings by cutting him (900k). Being that you would have to replace him with new salary it doesn't make any sense to cut him. I also just noticed Ike Taylor is not on that list, and I think it is going to come down to either him or Clark being back. Taylor has a whopping 7.4 cap number with about 2.125 savings if he is cut, and Clark is at 4.25 cap number and 1.75 in savings.

    Due to the cap situation it would make sense to keep Clark, he makes less and plays a position you can survive longer. And if you put Taylor on there and cut Clark, you have to add another $3 million to the numbers I posted. Problem is of you cut Taylor that cap hit is gonna be big since he just signed recently. I think that is going to be one of the toughest decisions to make. You really could afford "on the field" to lose Clark more, but cap wise you need to get rid of Taylor's huge salary. Also without Taylor the CB group is probably one of the worst in the NFL, you need him. But without Clark you can get by with a younger safety and Polamalu on the back end much easier.

    But I think this is the team you are likely to see, only change might be substituting Taylor for Clark. And maybe an Oline draft pick substituting for one of those guys listed on the 53 man.

    One thing about restructuring all the big contracts again, if that happens you are likely to have about $70-75 million in salary tied up in your top 6 players in 2013. Right now they make up about $58 million for 2012 with no restructuring.
    Last edited by 52decleetzu; 01-12-2012 at 06:43 PM.




  10. #82

    Re: Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

    Thanks for crunching the numbers. I thought they might save a little more than that from dumping Colon - that said, I agree with you now that they'll hold onto him.

    The Clark vs Taylor decision is going to be tough. The reason I went the way I did, my gut tells me that Clark would be willing to take a paycut to stay on the team, whereas Taylor probably wouldn't budge, and that would force the front office to let him walk. Either way it's going to hurt the secondary, although the loss of Taylor will be a bigger blow than Clark.

    That secondary will be pretty awful. LeBeau can go a long way towards covering that up with a great pass rush - this year they were only 17th in sacks. Hell, that's how LeBeau has been covering up the weaknesses in the secondary for years. I would think having a healthy Harrison and Woodley together all season could make a difference there. But the defense will be a shell of itself, and will give up a lot more yards and points.

    If I were the front office, I would turn my focus to the offense then. If they address the line early in the draft, and Pouncey and Colon can stay healthy, there's a lot of potential there between Ben, Wallace, Brown, Sanders, Cotchery, and Miller. Not saying they could be Green Bay or New Orleans, but they could certainly be a top 5 scoring team, like Carolina, San Diego, and Atlanta this season (all around 25 ppg). That can help cancel out the defensive drop off, and a top unit won't be necessary. That seems to be the way Goodell wants it anyway, might as well change with the times. They could still win enough games to be in contention for a wildcard.

    The silver lining is that this rebuilding/reloading period comes at a time where the AFC is not as strong as it was the last few years. The Colts are down, the Jets are imploding (unless they somehow land Manning). The powerhouses for the forseeable future look to be New England and Baltimore, and then a considerable drop-off to a log-jam of second-tier teams, that should include Pittsburgh. 9 wins next year could still get a #6 seed, as it did this year.

    EDIT: The second silver lining is that this will probably shake off a lot of the bandwagoners that have been clinging to Pittsburgh since 2004-2005. They can go be Packers fans now...or hey, maybe even Ravens fans.
    Last edited by SteelFaninBMore; 01-12-2012 at 06:54 PM. Reason: typos




  11. #83

    Re: Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelFaninBMore View Post
    Thanks for crunching the numbers. I thought they might save a little more than that from dumping Colon - that said, I agree with you know that they'll hold onto him.

    The Clark vs Taylor decision is going to be tough. The reason I went the way I did, my gut tells me that Clark would be willing to take a paycut to stay on the team, whereas Taylor probably wouldn't budge, and that would force the front office to let him walk. Either way it's going to hurt the secondary, although the loss of Taylor will be a bigger blow than Clark.

    That secondary will be pretty awful. LeBeau can go a long way towards covering that up with a great pass rush - this year they were only 17th in sacks. Hell, that's how LeBeau has been covering up the weaknesses in the secondary for years. I would think having a healthy Harrison and Woodley together all season could make a difference there. But the defense will be a shell of itself, and will give up a lot more yards and points.

    If I were the front office, I would turn my focus to the offense then. If they address the line early in the draft, and Pouncey and Colon can stay healthy, there's a lot of potential there between Ben, Wallace, Brown, Sanders, Cotchery, and Miller. Not saying they could be Green Bay or New Orleans, but they could certainly be a top 5 scoring team, like Carolina, San Diego, and Atlanta this season (all around 25 ppg). That can help cancel out the defensive drop off, and a top unit won't be necessary. That seems to be the way Goodell wants it anyway, might as well change with the times. They could still win enough games to be in contention for a wildcard.

    The silver lining is that this rebuilding/reloading period comes at a time where the AFC is not as strong as it was the last few years. The Colts are down, the Jets are imploding (unless they somehow land Manning). The powerhouses for the forseeable future look to be New England and Baltimore, and then a considerable drop-off to a log-jam of second-tier teams, that should include Pittsburgh. 9 wins next year could still get a #6 seed, as it did this year.

    EDIT: The second silver lining is that this will probably shake off a lot of the bandwagoners that have been clinging to Pittsburgh since 2004-2005. They can go be Packers fans now...or hey, maybe even Ravens fans.
    That is probably a good idea, but like you said the defense is going to suffer big time in that scenario. That is where all the cuts will be coming from, and if you spend the high draft picks on an Oline or two the Dline especially at NT and the secondary is going to be hurting. Either way it looks like it will be a very young inexperienced group, with your 1A pass rusher Harrison declining rapidly at age 34. (was only 9 sacks because of injury or age?)

    Now that is assuming that the guy(s) you get for the Oline can step right in and play...well. If not we could see the same protection issues all over again. I would expect them to go Oline early and replace a tackle, but then again I and most Steeler fans have thought that for 2 years now. I don't think they can ignore it anymore though with Ben looking like a very old 30 right now. Take the best OT on the board at 24 and call it a day. Take the best NT on the board in the 2nd, that is another desperate position. Fill in the other defensive holes with the rest of the draft and do the best you can.

    Very good offense, suspect defense probably gets you 7-9 to 9-7 record, and then take it from there in 2013.




  12. #84

    Re: Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by 52decleetzu View Post
    Very good offense, suspect defense probably gets you 7-9 to 9-7 record, and then take it from there in 2013.
    My thoughts exactly. Good discussion. This thread will be exhibit A the next time I get asked why a Steelers fan is posting on a Ravens board. Because you don't get this info on Steeler boards. Most of them don't even acknowledge that a cap problem exists, and the few that do (like scout) believe it's overblown and the front office will magically fix it and keep the whole roster intact.




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