If Gurode isn't retained, Jamaal Jackson may be an option...

**wickedsolo** · 01-09-2012, 07:59 AM

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...he_Eagles.html

Jackson, who lost his starting job in 2011 after working to recover from two injury-marred years, refused to criticize the Eagles, but he and his agent have made it clear that they expect him to be on the market looking for work elsewhere this offseason.

He is 31 years old.

Obviously not my ideal #1 option, but potentially not a bad option.

**JAB1985** · 01-09-2012, 08:08 AM

Gurode still being the number 1 if Birk retires? Im sure hed come a little cheaper than Gurode but probably not much more. You see them going with a stopgap at Center over letting a rookie start?

**Mad Puppy** · 01-09-2012, 08:24 AM

Hey guys lets wait untill the season is over (hopefully after Feb 5

) to discuss roster moves...Bad Karma

**GOTA** · 01-09-2012, 08:24 AM

I doubt Gurode will be here next year. They will probably bring in a bunch of options and open the job up in camp.

**wickedsolo** · 01-09-2012, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by JAB1985

Gurode still being the number 1 if Birk retires? Im sure hed come a little cheaper than Gurode but probably not much more. You see them going with a stopgap at Center over letting a rookie start?

Depends on what shakes out in the draft.

Center/guard is one of those positions where the value is there, but no one really wants to jump on it "too" high. Ya know? For example, both the Steelers and Dolphins used fairly high picks on the Pouncey twins and neither have really been overly impressive, although they've been solid. Then again, the Jets a few years ago used a 1st rounder on Nick Mangold and he's easily the best overall center in the NFL right now, so the value is there and he was able to step in his rookie year and play at a high level.

In the draft there are 3 guys who could make cases for being 1st/2nd round picks: Peter Konz out of Wisconsin, Mike Brewster out of Ohio State, and Ben Jones out of Georgia. There are a couple of 2nd tier guys like William Vlachos out of Alabama, Philip Blake out of Baylor, David Molk out of Michigan, and Quinton Saulsberry out of Mississippi State. A lot of folks like Vlachos, but he's 6'1" and about 290lbs. How would he deal with Casey Hampton? How would Flacco (who is 6'6" and change) deal with taking snaps from a guy who is more than 5 inches shorter than him?

Those are things to think about.

David Molk is another one who is going to have a tough time. He's 285lbs, but he's a good player. Do you take a player like that and bulk them up behind a guy like Gurode or Jackson? I don't have a good answer for that.

Frankly, I think that they should worry about re-signing Grubbs and getting better at LT because with Grubbs and Yanda at guard, they can help out the center if he's a rookie or a so-so free agent.

**GOTA** · 01-09-2012, 08:32 AM

Blake is very interesting. He is a former OT and a lot more athletic than your typical Center. He's also a big wide bodied guy a lot like Jason Brown. He'd be the guy that I would look for in this draft.

**wickedsolo** · 01-09-2012, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Blake is very interesting. He is a former OT and a lot more athletic than your typical Center. He's also a big wide bodied guy a lot like Jason Brown. He'd be the guy that I would look for in this draft.

Me too and with a good performance at the Senior Bowl he could really elevate his stock.

His biggest problem? He'd be a 26 year old rookie.

**GOTA** · 01-09-2012, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Me too and with a good performance at the Senior Bowl he could really elevate his stock.

His biggest problem? He'd be a 26 year old rookie.

I don't think that's a big problem unless you took him in the first round. He's on the other side of 30 for his second contract and you would evaluate at that point. Unless you are investing serious money into a rookie it really doesn't matter what age he starts because you are only looking at 1 contract anyway and crossing your fingers that he's good enough and in a price range where you can get the second contract.

For the 1st round it's different because you are thinking 8 to 10 years for every player you draft. From what I have heard that's not really the case past round 1 and maybe the top of round 2.

**wickedsolo** · 01-09-2012, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

I don't think that's a big problem unless you took him in the first round. He's on the other side of 30 for his second contract and you would evaluate at that point. Unless you are investing serious money into a rookie it really doesn't matter what age he starts because you are only looking at 1 contract anyway and crossing your fingers that he's good enough and in a price range where you can get the second contract.

For the 1st round it's different because you are thinking 8 to 10 years for every player you draft. From what I have heard that's not really the case past round 1 and maybe the top of round 2.

Well, the Eagles drafted Danny Watkins this past April and he was a 27 year old rookie guard.

I doubt the Ravens would use anything higher than a 2nd or move up in the 3rd to take Blake IF he is their target at center.

**GOTA** · 01-09-2012, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Well, the Eagles drafted Danny Watkins this past April and he was a 27 year old rookie guard.

I doubt the Ravens would use anything higher than a 2nd or move up in the 3rd to take Blake IF he is their target at center.

Pat Kirwin is the one who talked about how teams look at older draft picks. He spent a lot of time on it before last years draft because of Watkins. Kirwin was the GM of the Jets and is still very close to a ton of coaches and GMs in the league which it why I tend to believe him on this.

I'm thinking 3rd round too. If he there then they look somewhere else. 2nd round just seems too high at least at this point. It's so early though that we'll see.

**wickedsolo** · 01-09-2012, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Pat Kirwin is the one who talked about how teams look at older draft picks. He spent a lot of time on it before last years draft because of Watkins. Kirwin was the GM of the Jets and is still very close to a ton of coaches and GMs in the league which it why I tend to believe him on this.

I'm thinking 3rd round too. If he there then they look somewhere else. 2nd round just seems too high at least at this point. It's so early though that we'll see.

If they use a 2nd on a center I hope it's to move around to take Brewster or Ben Jones. Or maybe one of those two guys drop.

**blah3** · 01-09-2012, 10:06 AM

The thread title seems to imply that Gurode is the better choice. I would prefer Jackson over Gurode.

**wickedsolo** · 01-09-2012, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by blah3

The thread title seems to imply that Gurode is the better choice. I would prefer Jackson over Gurode.

Nothing is implied other than there is a general thought process that Gurode is the likely candidate for the Ravens plans in 2012 as the starting center.

**Ravskins** · 01-09-2012, 10:38 AM

I thought Gurode signed a two year contract which to me implies he'll be stepping in for Birk who I think is in his last year.

**wickedsolo** · 01-09-2012, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Ravskins

I thought Gurode signed a two year contract which to me implies he'll be stepping in for Birk who I think is in his last year.

I don't believe so.

McKinnie signed a 2-year deal.

**GOTA** · 01-09-2012, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I don't believe so.

McKinnie signed a 2-year deal.

That's correct. For Gurode it was a 1 year deal that could be worth double the money with incentives.

**SC_Raven_Fan** · 01-10-2012, 06:50 AM

You guys multi-task much too well. I'm focused on winning NOW, not next year! I'll deal with this after the Superbowl hangover wears off... like Feb. 10th or 11th

**Iscull** · 01-10-2012, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

If they use a 2nd on a center I hope it's to move around to take Brewster or Ben Jones. Or maybe one of those two guys drop.

Agreed. I would love to get Brewster in the mid-late 2nd and I think it can happen.

**bmorecareful** · 01-10-2012, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Depends on what shakes out in the draft.

Center/guard is one of those positions where the value is there, but no one really wants to jump on it "too" high. Ya know? For example, both the Steelers and Dolphins used fairly high picks on the Pouncey twins and neither have really been overly impressive, although they've been solid. Then again, the Jets a few years ago used a 1st rounder on Nick Mangold and he's easily the best overall center in the NFL right now, so the value is there and he was able to step in his rookie year and play at a high level.

In the draft there are 3 guys who could make cases for being 1st/2nd round picks: Peter Konz out of Wisconsin, Mike Brewster out of Ohio State, and Ben Jones out of Georgia. There are a couple of 2nd tier guys like William Vlachos out of Alabama, Philip Blake out of Baylor, David Molk out of Michigan, and Quinton Saulsberry out of Mississippi State. A lot of folks like Vlachos, but he's 6'1" and about 290lbs. How would he deal with Casey Hampton? How would Flacco (who is 6'6" and change) deal with taking snaps from a guy who is more than 5 inches shorter than him?

Those are things to think about.

David Molk is another one who is going to have a tough time. He's 285lbs, but he's a good player. Do you take a player like that and bulk them up behind a guy like Gurode or Jackson? I don't have a good answer for that.

Frankly, I think that they should worry about re-signing Grubbs and getting better at LT because with Grubbs and Yanda at guard, they can help out the center if he's a rookie or a so-so free agent.

I am one of those people who is very high on Vlachos. He may only be 6'1 295 or thereabouts, but size is much less important at the C position than technique and intelligence. A lot of great centers in the league have been sub-300 guys, including Jeff Saturday, Olin Kreutz, etc. In fact, our own Matt Birk is listed at 6'4 309, and that is actually a lower BMI than Vlachos.

In the Ravens' system you are going to see the center try to get to the second level via combo blocks moreso than going head-up against a DT anyway. There are only a few centers in the league that really can overpower big DTs and NTs one-on-one, and Matt Birk already is not (and never was) one of them. I think Vlachos fits the scheme well, particularly if we continue to move to zone-blocking principles.

He's not my favorite center in the class, but he's a good one and he looks like an Ozzie pick. He could probably be had in the 3rd round. I dunno if you ask him to start day 1, but IMO I think the Ravens should consider giving Birk a 1-year deal (if he wants to come back) AND drafting a guy like Vlachos or Mike Brewster (Brewster is probably in the 2nd or even 3rd as well at this point after his bad year) to serve as his understudy. I don't know how cheap Birk will be, but I think he will accept a 1-year deal with a small bonus or no bonus while I think Gurode will want a multi-year deal with guarantees. I think Birk is also still playing at a very high level, higher than Gurode is capable of, and the continuity is extremely valuable from a scheme perspective.

**wickedsolo** · 01-10-2012, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

I am one of those people who is very high on Vlachos. He may only be 6'1 295 or thereabouts, but size is much less important at the C position than technique and intelligence. A lot of great centers in the league have been sub-300 guys, including Jeff Saturday, Olin Kreutz, etc. In fact, our own Matt Birk is listed at 6'4 309, and that is actually a lower BMI than Vlachos.

In the Ravens' system you are going to see the center try to get to the second level via combo blocks moreso than going head-up against a DT anyway. There are only a few centers in the league that really can overpower big DTs and NTs one-on-one, and Matt Birk already is not (and never was) one of them. I think Vlachos fits the scheme well, particularly if we continue to move to zone-blocking principles.

He's not my favorite center in the class, but he's a good one and he looks like an Ozzie pick. He could probably be had in the 3rd round. I dunno if you ask him to start day 1, but IMO I think the Ravens should consider giving Birk a 1-year deal (if he wants to come back) AND drafting a guy like Vlachos or Mike Brewster (Brewster is probably in the 2nd or even 3rd as well at this point after his bad year) to serve as his understudy. I don't know how cheap Birk will be, but I think he will accept a 1-year deal with a small bonus or no bonus while I think Gurode will want a multi-year deal with guarantees. I think Birk is also still playing at a very high level, higher than Gurode is capable of, and the continuity is extremely valuable from a scheme perspective.

I think Vlachos brings a lot of value as a run blocker, but again, you have to consider the fact that Flacco is 5 inches taller than him and taking a direct snap from Vlachos might impede on Flacco's ability to smoothly transition from snap and into his drop steps. It's a legitimate concern. That is one of the reasons why Birk was so desirable as a center prospect at the time. Cam likes taller centers for this very reason.

In the 4th or 5th round I think Vlachos is a steal, but in the 2nd or 3rd I think it's a major reach.