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  1. #37

    Re: Ravens want Rice, Flacco might have to wait



    Quote Originally Posted by Ngata Nother Suggs View Post
    Let me ask you a question. First of all this is all based on if Flacco has another ho-hum Flacco outing in the AFC Championship. It's very likely. If he rolls up a ton of offense on the Patriots it could all change. I think this game is that important for Flacco.

    Suppose the Ravens going into 2012 have Ray Rice locked up for what should be at least three years at the level he's at now. Basically one of the best.

    The question I think that people honestly need to ask themselves is how many more games do you think they could win with one or the other. Rice is an NFL superstar. Flacco is not. A decent veteran free agent QB could play at Flacco's current level if he doesn't like playing out his rookie deal deciding he'll become a FA. The Ravens could survive. There aren't a lot players like Ray Rice. There are a lot of quarterbacks like Flacco.
    First off, what makes you think they won't do both contracts this offseason?

    Second, you're supposition about which player is more important is just wrong. RB's are much easier to replace than QB's. Yes, Rice is special, but it's much easier to replace him than it would be to start over at QB. And who exactly are these veteran QB's that would plug in and play better than Flacco?




  2. #38
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    Re: Ravens want Rice, Flacco might have to wait

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngata Nother Suggs View Post
    Let me ask you a question. First of all this is all based on if Flacco has another ho-hum Flacco outing in the AFC Championship. It's very likely. If he rolls up a ton of offense on the Patriots it could all change. I think this game is that important for Flacco.

    Suppose the Ravens going into 2012 have Ray Rice locked up for what should be at least three years at the level he's at now. Basically one of the best.

    The question I think that people honestly need to ask themselves is how many more games do you think they could win with one or the other. Rice is an NFL superstar. Flacco is not. A decent veteran free agent QB could play at Flacco's current level if he doesn't like playing out his rookie deal deciding he'll become a FA. The Ravens could survive. There aren't a lot players like Ray Rice. There are a lot of quarterbacks like Flacco.
    Just curious, but what FA quarterback do you think would likely be available and be better than Flacco?

    Sure, you could say Manning, but he's still under contract and may stay that way. There is no way that the Saints let Brees walk, so who would be better than?

    There really aren't too many options right now.

    Honestly, I disagree with the entire premise as well. The Texans' D shut down Ray Rice and the OL for much of the game. If it weren't for Flacco, the Ravens may not have been able to score a TD at all.

    It doesn't matter anyway. They're convinced that they can win with him. He doesn't ever need to be a Tom Brady or an Aaron Rodgers, but he does need a better supporting cast (i.e. receivers who don't drop a handful of passes per game) and he needs a better offensive strategist. Let's see what he does without Cam Cameron. My guess is that it would be infinitely better.

    I do agree that this Patriots game is important for Flacco though, but I don't think he'll put up monster numbers. I think that he may throw the ball 18-25 times and the offense will feature Ray Rice and Ricky Williams.
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  3. #39
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    Re: Ravens want Rice, Flacco might have to wait

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngata Nother Suggs View Post
    The question I think that people honestly need to ask themselves is how many more games do you think they could win with one or the other. Rice is an NFL superstar. Flacco is not. A decent veteran free agent QB could play at Flacco's current level if he doesn't like playing out his rookie deal deciding he'll become a FA. The Ravens could survive. There aren't a lot players like Ray Rice. There are a lot of quarterbacks like Flacco.
    I'm sorry, but there are NOT a lot of QB's like Flacco- He's not a superstar, but he's about 10-13 range. And WHO are you going to get? Seriously, who? All Flacco has done is win for 4 straight years. We had great running teams and strong defenses in the past- did that get us to the playoffs EVERY year? NO!

    WTF. Good quarterbacks don't just fall off of trees. How do logical people not see this (probably answering my own question). the only way we get rid of Flacco is if we can get a top 2 quarterback in the draft- and for that, we'd have to TRADE OUR ENTIRE DRAFT. and how often does that work out? Plus you never know what you're going to get- the "manning" or the "leaf". It's ALWAYS a crap shoot- and when you have a team that goes to the playoffs EVERY freakin year with a QB, you just don't do that. the stupidity just makes me scratch my head.

    Who??




  4. #40

    Re: Ravens want Rice, Flacco might have to wait

    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    Joe is not the most important player on the offense so he needs to get in line. He is a game manager who can throw the occasional laser to a speedy WR or dump some balls off to Rice. He is good enough to keep long term, I think. I do think the Ravens management should keep an eye on the draft for a good QB who drops down into the later rounds...
    They did that already and he's currently sitting on our 53 man roster.




  5. #41
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    Re: Ravens want Rice, Flacco might have to wait

    What I really wonder is how much Matt Flynn will get. I already agree with the upper numbers that have been posted for Flacco.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  6. #42

    Re: Ravens want Rice, Flacco might have to wait

    I have no idea who could possibly be available after 2012 if Flacco decides to become a free agent. I'm not saying that is even what I want to happen, but if it did happen finding a replacement for Flacco's current production wouldn't be as hard as finding someone to replace Ray Rice's current production. Matt Hasselbeck could have come here this season and probably been better than Flacco was. Stop misinterpreting my posts as anti-Flacco. For the future of the Ravens I think it would be better to not negotiate a new contract with Flacco until his rookie contract expires. If Flacco can't wait a year are the Ravens supposed to just let him hold their feet to the fire? He's not good enough to carry weight to throw around.




  7. #43

    Re: Ravens want Rice, Flacco might have to wait

    Quote Originally Posted by 52decleetzu View Post
    This phrase is so laughable and off base it invalidates the entire article, at least the part he wrote...


    Flacco, his agent, and Ravens front office people who could remain anonymous would laugh at a $60 million number as his "ceiling". The Ravens would never offer such an insulting contract for a QB who has accomplished so much in his first 4 years. Ever. His agent would laugh them out of the building and ask them if they were joking.

    But again, it just shows how clueless the national media is and how they perceive Flacco's value. It is just mind blowing.
    You can't be serious? Put Rex Grossman on this team, it'll still go to playoff every year.




  8. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravensinva View Post
    You can't be serious? Put Rex Grossman on this team, it'll still go to playoff every year.
    Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

    Now I have to clean up the coffee I just spit out.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  9. #45
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    Re: Ravens want Rice, Flacco might have to wait

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngata Nother Suggs View Post
    I'm not saying that is even what I want to happen, but if it did happen finding a replacement for Flacco's current production wouldn't be as hard as finding someone to replace Ray Rice's current production. Matt Hasselbeck could have come here this season and probably been better than Flacco was. Stop misinterpreting my posts as anti-Flacco. For the future of the Ravens I think it would be better to not negotiate a new contract with Flacco until his rookie contract expires. If Flacco can't wait a year are the Ravens supposed to just let him hold their feet to the fire? He's not good enough to carry weight to throw around.
    I just don't see how you can say this. The QB *is* the hardest position on a team to replace- Easily. It's what every team is searching for (unitl they have a franchise QB). While in fact running back is one of the easiest positions to replace- obviously not to the caliber of Ray Rice, but you'd be just fine with a moderate dropoff in RB. do you not think we'd still be in the playoffs if Willis Mcghahee was running instead of Rice? And maybe Cam would take the training wheels off of our simple, dump-off oriented offense if we didn't have Ray Rice. But if you don't know that the QB is the hardest position to fill on an NFL roster, you haven't been watching very long.

    I don't know if I can even count on two freakin hands how many quarterbacks we went through after Vinny (Zeier, Redman, Banks, Case, Grbac, Wright, Boller- and throw in the magnificent Troy Smith if you want since everyone who bitches about Flacco wanted him to be the QB- where's he now) . And how many playoff wins did we accomplish all those years with all of those (easily replacable quarterbacks)? Only McNair worked- and that was for 1 season- why? b/c he was OLD. same thing with Hasselbeck- he may give you a couple of good years, but he will start to fall off soon- why give up on a 4th year QB who's above average, and gets to the playoffs every year??

    How is this not clearly obvious- you need a good quarterbacks to get to the playoffs every year- he touches the ball on every snap- and if he has a bad game, you usually lose.




  10. #46

    Re: Ravens want Rice, Flacco might have to wait

    Quote Originally Posted by cbaywolf View Post
    How is this not clearly obvious- you need a good quarterbacks to get to the playoffs every year- he touches the ball on every snap- and if he has a bad game, you usually lose.
    I'm amazed that even some *Ravens Fans* don't realize this. Pre-Joe - the Ravens were an up and down team that would make the playoffs every couple of years. He came to a team that was 5-11 the previous year. Since then, 4 straight playoff appearances, and 5 playoff wins(so far). Now that's not all because of Joe, but the point is, we HAD a great defense, and we HAD great running backs before Joe got here, and we couldn't get it done. Joe is part of that, whether some people will admit to that or not.




  11. #47

    Re: Ravens want Rice, Flacco might have to wait

    Quote Originally Posted by cbaywolf View Post
    I just don't see how you can say this. The QB *is* the hardest position on a team to replace- Easily. It's what every team is searching for (unitl they have a franchise QB). While in fact running back is one of the easiest positions to replace- obviously not to the caliber of Ray Rice, but you'd be just fine with a moderate dropoff in RB. do you not think we'd still be in the playoffs if Willis Mcghahee was running instead of Rice? And maybe Cam would take the training wheels off of our simple, dump-off oriented offense if we didn't have Ray Rice. But if you don't know that the QB is the hardest position to fill on an NFL roster, you haven't been watching very long.

    I don't know if I can even count on two freakin hands how many quarterbacks we went through after Vinny (Zeier, Redman, Banks, Case, Grbac, Wright, Boller- and throw in the magnificent Troy Smith if you want since everyone who bitches about Flacco wanted him to be the QB- where's he now) . And how many playoff wins did we accomplish all those years with all of those (easily replacable quarterbacks)? Only McNair worked- and that was for 1 season- why? b/c he was OLD. same thing with Hasselbeck- he may give you a couple of good years, but he will start to fall off soon- why give up on a 4th year QB who's above average, and gets to the playoffs every year??

    How is this not clearly obvious- you need a good quarterbacks to get to the playoffs every year- he touches the ball on every snap- and if he has a bad game, you usually lose.
    I'm not speaking in a general sense about the importance of locking up a good, young QB. I'm looking at just the Ravens, and the situation they're finding themselves in.

    Flacco has thrown for right around 3600 yards for three straight seasons. Rice accounted for 704 of those receiving yards in 2011, and 702 yards in 2009. In 2010 Rice didn't even have 600 receiving yards, but year three also looked like Flacco's best year. The point is that Flacco personally accounted for 3600 yards of passing offense with an arsenal of Rice, receivers, and tight ends. Rice had over 2000 yards from scrimmage on his own. Take away Rice this season and Flacco doesn't even throw for 3000 yards. Who's really the most important player on the Ravens offense?

    Going back to 2010 being Flacco's best year I believe a lot of it was because of Zorn and Bulger's influence. I can't see them being able to justify firing Cameron at this point unless the offense is just a complete disaster on Sunday. I think he'll probably be back, but in order to properly evaluate Flacco I think he needs a veteran backup QB even if he's a third string clipboard holder, and a QB coach.




  12. #48
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    Re: Ravens want Rice, Flacco might have to wait

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngata Nother Suggs View Post
    Flacco has thrown for right around 3600 yards for three straight seasons. Rice accounted for 704 of those receiving yards in 2011, and 702 yards in 2009. In 2010 Rice didn't even have 600 receiving yards, but year three also looked like Flacco's best year. The point is that Flacco personally accounted for 3600 yards of passing offense with an arsenal of Rice, receivers, and tight ends. Rice had over 2000 yards from scrimmage on his own. Take away Rice this season and Flacco doesn't even throw for 3000 yards. Who's really the most important player on the Ravens offense?
    Sorry, but that's just not true- If Rice isn't here, and we have another back, he may not get 600 pass yards, but he'd probably have about 200-300. And if we didn't have Rice here, we'd also probably throw just a little bit more, and the receivers/tight-ends would probably have some more yards as well. Just b/c rice isn't here doesn't mean we can't function.

    And I would agree that Rice is currently our best offensive weapon and "more important" to us this year- but it doesn't mean that I would rather have him over Flacco over the long haul. A QB can be productive until he's 35+ years old. A running back is usually done by around 30/31. their knees and bodies just can't handle the abuse- so the better investment in your team is again, clearly the quarterback. Rice will probably be able to contribute at this level for 4/5 more years while Flacco will be good for 9 or 10 more.

    Joe definitely had a good relationship with Zorn (and I think Cam pushed him out the door), but I don't know that Bulger had much to do with Flacco- but i would definitely prefer to have Bulger here over Tyrod Taylor. The problem is finding a veteran who's OK with being a backup. I'm 100% positive that Flacco will be at leas moderatively more productive next year when all of these new guys have had time together. this was basically the first year of him throwing to Pitta, Dickson, Evans, and Torrey full-time.




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