Comparing Flacco to the other playoff QBs left (Merged Threads)

**chicagoravensfan** · 01-17-2012, 03:32 PM

One other interesting note while looking at Eli Manning's career numbers. In the NFC Championship game vs. Green Bay in '07 here are his stats:

52.5% Comp %, 6.3 Y/A, 0 TD 0 INT

Compare to Flacco vs. the Texans which the media has decided was dreadful:

51.9 Comp. %, 6.5 Y/A, 2 TD 0 INT

**PeterB58** · 01-17-2012, 03:33 PM

The national perception remains that the Ravens are dominated by the defense and the QB is a "caretaker".

Performances by Flacco in Jacksonville and San Diego this year and his very mediocre numbers in his playoff games on the national stage reinforce the national perception that he is not very good.

Performances like his 92-yard drive in Pittsburgh, or his (should-have been) comebacks in Atlanta in 2010 and Minnesota in 2009, or his very good game at New England last year are overlooked as aberrations.

It is what it is.

**52decleetzu** · 01-17-2012, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by chicagoravensfan

One other interesting note while looking at Eli Manning's career numbers. In the NFC Championship game vs. Green Bay in '07 here are his stats:

52.5% Comp %, 6.3 Y/A, 0 TD 0 INT

Compare to Flacco vs. the Texans which the media has decided was dreadful:

51.9 Comp. %, 6.5 Y/A, 2 TD 0 INT

Anyone want to take a guess what the defense he played was ranked?

11th.

**wickedsolo** · 01-17-2012, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by edtude

You have inside info Gota? This damned team likes to move slow and does not make the big changes. I am not confident that Cam will not be here next year. I think it is that the front office organization has convinced itself that our offense is good enough to win with our defense and Cam just may be back next year.

It was pretty evident that Bisciotti was NOT happy with the offensive ups and downs last season and the only reason Cam's butt was saved was the lockout because it made more sense to keep the devil you know rather than go with the one you know nothing about. They pinned the offensive woes on Jim Zorn and let him go instead, which to this day I think was the biggest mistake they've made in quite some time. Flacco needs a QB's coach because he and Cam don't really get along all that well.

It was also pretty clear that Bisciotti was really unhappy with the offense this year. He paid a lot of money for the best run blocking FB in the league and up until November Cam didn't really use Leach at all for what he was intended to be used for. If you compare the rushing states from the first couple of weeks to the last couple of weeks it's pretty incredible. That's why guys like Suggs have been saying "feed the beast"...meaning get the ball to Ray Rice as much as possible.

Frankly, I can't wait for the day that Cam decides to take a consulting position somewhere else that allows him more time to spend with his family and they bring in an offensive coordinator that is ready to go and willing to work with the players to develop a game plan that makes sense. That's why the Bengals have been so impressive after bringing in Jay Gruden. I've read on their boards that Jay Gruden actually develops the gameplan mostly based on input from Dalton and a couple of the other guys on offense. Cam doesn't do that.

**arnie_uk** · 01-17-2012, 03:42 PM

so why the hell did you start the EXCAT same thread, with The EXCAT same info that was posted 45 mins before yours? dont you read the other threads

**pslholder96** · 01-17-2012, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by arnie_uk

so why the hell did you start the EXCAT same thread, with The EXCAT same info that was posted 45 mins before yours? dont you read the other threads

Because I didn'nt see it earlier. No need to be rude....

**JustaslowZ06** · 01-17-2012, 03:58 PM

It's Cam. Wishing Norv was going to be available but it doesn't look like it. Brad Childress is a name I haven't seen ANYONE bring up, however he was on Philly's staff as QB's coach and OC that brought up a certain guy named McNabb, and that offense went to numerous championships and a super bowl. Than of course there is McDaniels. He had a mediocre term in Denver but he's a Bellicheat disciple(sp?) so that good enough for me.

**mjones73** · 01-17-2012, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by JustaslowZ06

It's Cam. Wishing Norv was going to be available but it doesn't look like it. Brad Childress is a name I haven't seen ANYONE bring up, however he was on Philly's staff as QB's coach and OC that brought up a certain guy named McNabb, and that offense went to numerous championships and a super bowl. Than of course there is McDaniels. He had a mediocre term in Denver but he's a Bellicheat disciple(sp?) so that good enough for me.

McDaniels is already back in New England...

**BleedPurple92** · 01-17-2012, 04:04 PM

Those are pretty legit numbers. I've said it over and over. Joe is gonna be a great one, he just isn't there yet. I still think we need to get him more reliable weapons around him.

Also idk Cam? I still Believe in Cam, but i'm more than curious to see what Joe can do with a better OC.

**Ravenswintitle** · 01-17-2012, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by chicagoravensfan

One other interesting note while looking at Eli Manning's career numbers. In the NFC Championship game vs. Green Bay in '07 here are his stats:

52.5% Comp %, 6.3 Y/A, 0 TD 0 INT

Compare to Flacco vs. the Texans which the media has decided was dreadful:

51.9 Comp. %, 6.5 Y/A, 2 TD 0 INT

But what about this year's game for both QBs = Eli against GB was 21/33 for 330 yds and 3 TDs. It's about getting better each year, and Flacco has struggled this year more than last.

**ActualSpamBot** · 01-17-2012, 04:07 PM

I'm wondering if maybe we look to the college ranks for an OC. Bring in someone who can incorporate more spread opportunities into our power run game.

I literally just thought of something. One of the reasons our offense has issues is that while Joe throws best in an uptempo shotgun set, Ray does his best running out of a slowed down grinding power I set. It means that we can only really commit to one or the other. And while I know Joe can be deadly out of the play action boot, Cam seems to have gotten away from that lately for some reason.

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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=39.369112,-76.761232

**JustaslowZ06** · 01-17-2012, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by mjones73

McDaniels is already back in New England...

I didn't see the details of the contract. I was more or less just banking on it being a sneaky sneaky by Bellicheat and he'll be back on the market after the season.

**52decleetzu** · 01-17-2012, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

But what about this year's game for both QBs = Eli against GB was 21/33 for 330 yds and 3 TDs. It's about getting better each year, and Flacco has struggled this year more than last.

Huh?

Eli is on his 8th year, Flacco his 4th. We will cross that bridge in 2015, not now. Eli had a 77 rating in year 3, and a 73 rating in year 4.

Eli never had a QB rating of over 77 his 1st 4 years. 7-7.

Flacco is so far ahead of Eli at this point of his career they almost aren't even comparable.

**Ravenswintitle** · 01-17-2012, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by 52decleetzu

Huh?

Eli is on his 8th year, Flacco his 4th. We will cross that bridge in 2015, not now. Eli had a 77 rating in year 3, and a 73 rating in year 4.

Eli never had a QB rating of over 77 his 1st 4 years. 7-7.

Flacco is so far ahead of Eli at this point of his career they almost aren't even comparable.

I'd rather have the SB win than the stats but I get your point; wouldn't say they're not comporable though.

**JustaslowZ06** · 01-17-2012, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot

I'm wondering if maybe we look to the college ranks for an OC. Bring in someone who can incorporate more spread opportunities into our power run game.

I literally just thought of something. One of the reasons our offense has issues is that while Joe throws best in an uptempo shotgun set, Ray does his best running out of a slowed down grinding power I set. It means that we can only really commit to one or the other. And while I know Joe can be deadly out of the play action boot, Cam seems to have gotten away from that lately for some reason.

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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=39.369112,-76.761232

I don't know about that. Rice seems to do pretty well out of a draw when Flacco is in the gun and were running 3 or 4 wide.

I just think we have the personnel to run that style of offense. We're not that ground and pound any more based on personnel. That isn't Jamal back there it's Rice, and it's Flacco(who does better in the gun) not a washed up McNair or before him the laundry list of QB's. You have a burner on the outside in TSmith, a beast slot guy in Boldin, and another possesion but speedy guy in Evans. Add in rotating out Pitta(hands) or Dickson(matchup) and you have the perfect spread offense in personnel.

**ActualSpamBot** · 01-17-2012, 04:14 PM

Manning's Superbowl was super flukey though. Not taking anything away from what he did because he was monster clutch in that game, but the Giants d-line had a much bigger role in that win than Eli.

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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=39.369168,-76.761229

**Haloti92** · 01-17-2012, 04:15 PM

The Flacco / Eli comparison is valid. And of course Eli got all sorts of criticism until he improved.

The Flacco / Brady comparison fails because Brady won two SBs in those first 4 years. And while victories and titles are the result of teams not individuals, Brady's postseason play was far superior to Flacco's (in the 4 year comparison).

Smith's first 4 years are bad, plus no one is saying Smith is a consistently good QB yet even if they are saying he might have turned the corner with Harbaugh's help.

Joe wasn't helped last week by our O-line or gameplan, imo; and eventhough his rating was very good, and his performance, considering the situation, was better than good, he still didn't put up the production to quiet the average critic. Hopefully he does this weekend.

**52decleetzu** · 01-17-2012, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Haloti92

The Flacco / Eli comparison is valid. And of course Eli got all sorts of criticism until he improved.

From the national media? Don't recall that. At all.

And due to my work I am trapped inside watching and listening to stuff all day long when NFL is playing and being talked about 24/7. Maybe in New York, but he damn sur wasn't getting crushed in the national media like Joe is.

Can anyone imagine what they would be saying about Joe is he had this line his first 4 years...

55games

55% comp

199.7 YPG

77 TD

64 INT

70.6 rating.

Could you even fathom what the rhetoric would be??

**Haloti92** · 01-17-2012, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by 52decleetzu

Huh?

Eli is on his 8th year, Flacco his 4th. We will cross that bridge in 2015, not now. Eli had a 77 rating in year 3, and a 73 rating in year 4.

Eli never had a QB rating of over 77 his 1st 4 years. 7-7.

Flacco is so far ahead of Eli at this point of his career they almost aren't even comparable.

In the postseason of Eli's 4th year he was: 72/119 for 854 yds 6 TDs/1 Int for a rating of 95.7....all games on the road and the SB against an undefeated team.

That was exactly his turning point. The next year his QB rating was 12 points higher than his first 4 year average. And it has been decent to good since.

Not arguing with anything you said, but it is about here where Flacco can step up and remain ahead of Eli's development curve.

**Haloti92** · 01-17-2012, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by 52decleetzu

From the national media? Don't recall that. At all.

And due to my work I am trapped inside watching and listening to stuff all day long when NFL is playing and being talked about 24/7. Maybe in New York, but he damn sur wasn't getting crushed in the national media like Joe is.

Can anyone imagine what they would be saying about Joe is he had this line his first 4 years...

55games

55% comp

199.7 YPG

77 TD

64 INT

70.6 rating.

Could you even fathom what the rhetoric would be??

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/15/sp.../15giants.html

Plenty of examples just like this one. Plus Tiki called him out pre-SB run. I would argue he actually had it a lot worse than Flacco, mainly because he was in NY, but still.