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  1. #85
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    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...



    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    I cetainly think Timmons is better than Poz and Bishop...a LOT better. He allows Pitt to do a lot of things with thier D as not only is he physical and a good tackler, he is a very good coverage LB. And he is very versatile as he can play OLB in the 3-4 as well.

    I don't think Poz or Bishop are in his class at all.

    I certainly can understand Harris being up there and even better to a degree, but Timmons is a hell of a player. Just the fact that Pitt, who hardly ever overpay for their own guys and don't hesitate to let them walk, re-signed him to that huge deal should tell you how good he is.
    I'm not arguing that he is a good player.

    The question was more along the lines of why the value of MLB has dropped in the last couple of years. Timmons was picked 15th overall...10 spots above Jon Beason and several spots/rounds above Poz, Harris, and Bishop. If a team who needs multiple things is starting at a MLB with a top 20 pick do they take him? Is he really worth a top 20 pick? History has shown that you can get starting quality MLB's from round 2 on and they are A LOT cheaper to sign and carry a fraction of the expectation weight that 1st round picks do.

    If you go to any Steeler board you will find multiple folks who don't think Timmons is worth the 15th overall pick that he was taken at.
    When it comes to quarterbacks, don't pay attention to stats; pay attention to guys who make crucial plays at crucial times. -Gil Brandt


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  2. #86
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    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Absolutely a valid point dude.

    In the Navy if one were to have that type of insubordination they wouldn't be long for the uniform, so to speak.

    This is why I think it's going to be imperative for this guy to be straightforward in his interviews because he's going to be grilled about those things. If Jeff Ireland can grill Dez Bryant on whether or not his mother is a prostitute, you damn well better believe that they are going to press Burfict's buttons and put him in really uncomfortable situations to see how he reacts.

    He's not my first choice for the Ravens at MLB, obviously Hightower or Kuechly are, but Burfict might actually be the only MLB there in the bottom of round 1.

    Now, frankly if I'm picking between Burfict and someone like Whitney Mercilus, Nick Perry, or Andre Branch I think that I'd be looking at those guys more as their upside is there, character concerns aren't an issue, and the production is there against top tiered competition.

    After the playoffs and the 2nd half of the season I'm not certain why anyone would feel that a pass rusher isn't a priority for the Ravens this off-season. Nothing against Suggs or Ngata, but those two can only do so much when they're facing constant double teams.

    I think you also have to consider DT's now like a Michael Brockers from LSU or a Devon Still from Penn State.
    If Hightower and Kuechly are gone, but Burfict and Mike Adams (OT Ohio State) are still there, I take Mike Adams. However, if Adams is gone, then I take Burfict. I like Nick Perry, but at 6'3" 250 lbs, he would have to be converted to an OLB. Whitney Mercilus on the other hand, would be very tempting.




  3. #87

    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    If Burfict interviews great he;s going to go a lot higher than #29. If he doesn't there are some issues that's going to push him out of the first round and significant guaranteed money. Either way I see him as a real long shot to be a Raven.
    I have a hard time seeing the Ravens passing him up if he is there.

    Sergio Kindle literally mapped out his drunk driving route that ended with his car in the side of a building and him fleeing the scene. And we're gonna pass up the best prospect since Patrick Willis because he got a couple of personal fouls this year?

    I think Ozzie has proved that BPA is going to stick regardless of 'character issues'.




  4. #88
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    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

    Quote Originally Posted by JMUpurkfool View Post
    I have a hard time seeing the Ravens passing him up if he is there.

    Sergio Kindle literally mapped out his drunk driving route that ended with his car in the side of a building and him fleeing the scene. And we're gonna pass up the best prospect since Patrick Willis because he got a couple of personal fouls this year?

    I think Ozzie has proved that BPA is going to stick regardless of 'character issues'.
    Kindle is exactly the reason why they are going to be extra careful.

    For the Ravens to draft him 28 other teams have to not see him as the best prospect at the position since Patrick Willis. If it's just a couple of personal fouls wouldn't he go in the top 10 or at worst in the top 15? For Burfict to fall to the Ravens there has to be some serious doubts about him because he's so talented. If those doubts are there wouldn't the Ravens have them as well?

    Either he's Dez Bryant or he's gone long before the Ravens draft.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  5. #89

    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Kindle is exactly the reason why they are going to be extra careful.

    For the Ravens to draft him 28 other teams have to not see him as the best prospect at the position since Patrick Willis. If it's just a couple of personal fouls wouldn't he go in the top 10 or at worst in the top 15? For Burfict to fall to the Ravens there has to be some serious doubts about him because he's so talented. If those doubts are there wouldn't the Ravens have them as well?

    Either he's Dez Bryant or he's gone long before the Ravens draft.
    His problem is he lets his emotions get the best of him on the field. He takes his aggression after the whistle, and he's had an incredible amount of penalties after the whistle. That's pretty much his problem. He's got some suh in him. Off the field, all you hear is that he's a shy, meek kid. But when the helmet comes on he's a different guy. He cost his team a lot of yards in penalties, and he really honestly didn't play that well this year.... Simple as that, if he played this season like he played last year he would bet a top 10 pick even with the penalties.

    I'd rather have that on the field, than off the field.
    Lardarius "The predator" Webb





  6. #90
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    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

    Quote Originally Posted by BleedPurple92 View Post
    His problem is he lets his emotions get the best of him on the field. He takes his aggression after the whistle, and he's had an incredible amount of penalties after the whistle. That's pretty much his problem. He's got some suh in him. Off the field, all you hear is that he's a shy, meek kid. But when the helmet comes on he's a different guy. He cost his team a lot of yards in penalties, and he really honestly didn't play that well this year.... Simple as that, if he played this season like he played last year he would bet a top 10 pick even with the penalties.

    I'd rather have that on the field, than off the field.
    My point is that if he is a great prospect he's not falling to 29. We all know he has a lot of talent so it's going to have to be other things that cause him to fall. I don't think anyone can assume that issues that matter to other GMs don't matter to Ozzie.

    The issue is risk. How much risk, guaranteed money, are you willing to assume for the player? When you have a high level prospect the less risk the higher he's going to go. That's why Dez Bryant went to the bottom of the draft but Julio Jones who had a broken foot was worth trading half a draft to get.

    Which case does Burifict fall into? If he's Bryant are the Ravens willing to risk 1st round money? If he's Jones there is no way he falls to 29.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  7. #91

    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    My point is that if he is a great prospect he's not falling to 29. We all know he has a lot of talent so it's going to have to be other things that cause him to fall. I don't think anyone can assume that issues that matter to other GMs don't matter to Ozzie.

    The issue is risk. How much risk, guaranteed money, are you willing to assume for the player? When you have a high level prospect the less risk the higher he's going to go. That's why Dez Bryant went to the bottom of the draft but Julio Jones who had a broken foot was worth trading half a draft to get.

    Which case does Burifict fall into? If he's Bryant are the Ravens willing to risk 1st round money? If he's Jones there is no way he falls to 29.
    I think he'll fall just like Jimmy Smith did.




  8. #92

    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    My point is that if he is a great prospect he's not falling to 29. We all know he has a lot of talent so it's going to have to be other things that cause him to fall. I don't think anyone can assume that issues that matter to other GMs don't matter to Ozzie.

    The issue is risk. How much risk, guaranteed money, are you willing to assume for the player? When you have a high level prospect the less risk the higher he's going to go. That's why Dez Bryant went to the bottom of the draft but Julio Jones who had a broken foot was worth trading half a draft to get.

    Which case does Burifict fall into? If he's Bryant are the Ravens willing to risk 1st round money? If he's Jones there is no way he falls to 29.
    With the Ravens, they do their homework, they go the extra mile when it comes to character. That is why they drafted Jimmy Smith, and its proving to be a good decision.

    They wont draft a guy unless they feel comfortable with him. That we know for sure.

    Fact is, the only team's that need a MLB are Philly, and the Jets. If he gets past either of those teams, he will most likely fall to us. NY was another team that need a LB but they are in the Superbowl.


    Again i keep saying for Hightower, and Burfict. The combine will either make, or Lose money for them. They could go anywhere from 15, to the 2nd round. Guys like that the combine is where they make their mark. If Burfict has a good combine, trust me, no way he makes it to us. I cant say the same for Hightower, but i promise you this, if Hightower runs a 4.6 or less, he wont make it into the 2nd round.
    Lardarius "The predator" Webb





  9. #93

    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I'm not arguing that he is a good player.

    The question was more along the lines of why the value of MLB has dropped in the last couple of years. Timmons was picked 15th overall...10 spots above Jon Beason and several spots/rounds above Poz, Harris, and Bishop. If a team who needs multiple things is starting at a MLB with a top 20 pick do they take him? Is he really worth a top 20 pick? History has shown that you can get starting quality MLB's from round 2 on and they are A LOT cheaper to sign and carry a fraction of the expectation weight that 1st round picks do.

    If you go to any Steeler board you will find multiple folks who don't think Timmons is worth the 15th overall pick that he was taken at.
    I'll just say I disagree...I think he was worth that spot and is by far the most underrated player on that Steeler defense. I don't think Boz or Bishop are in his league as a player.

    As far as what you're saying about value, well, I agree. I'd also say though that you could probably do the same study about most positions that aren't OL or DT. So really, it's just a matter of what the scouts see...and we have some of the best there are. If they don't want to roll the dice on a first round ILB, I'm ok with that, but I really think getting one early this year is important...especially if McClain leaves as a UFA.




  10. #94

    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

    Quote Originally Posted by BleedPurple92 View Post
    .

    Fact is, the only team's that need a MLB are Philly, and the Jets. If he gets past either of those teams, he will most likely fall to us. NY was another team that need a LB but they are in the Superbowl.


    Again i keep saying for Hightower, and Burfict. The combine will either make, or Lose money for them. They could go anywhere from 15, to the 2nd round. Guys like that the combine is where they make their mark. If Burfict has a good combine, trust me, no way he makes it to us. I cant say the same for Hightower, but i promise you this, if Hightower runs a 4.6 or less, he wont make it into the 2nd round.
    True and I think you can take Philly off as they never have and never will value the LB position. Look for them to take another offensive lineman.

    As for Hightower, no way he runs a 4.6 or lower.

    He likely will run around a 4.8 or high 4.7.




  11. #95

    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    My point is that if he is a great prospect he's not falling to 29. We all know he has a lot of talent so it's going to have to be other things that cause him to fall. I don't think anyone can assume that issues that matter to other GMs don't matter to Ozzie.

    The issue is risk. How much risk, guaranteed money, are you willing to assume for the player? When you have a high level prospect the less risk the higher he's going to go. That's why Dez Bryant went to the bottom of the draft but Julio Jones who had a broken foot was worth trading half a draft to get.

    Which case does Burifict fall into? If he's Bryant are the Ravens willing to risk 1st round money? If he's Jones there is no way he falls to 29.
    Could you, or could you not, say the exact same thing heading into their respective drafts about Jimmy Smith, and to a lesser extend (and different reasons) Michael Oher?

    It's very possible he's there at 29 and Ozzie feels comfortable taking him there. I would not dismiss it at all.




  12. #96

    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

    I think Ozzie looks to trade down this year. I could see him moving back into the mid 30s , and targeting one of the ILBs or Cs who slips a bit, and taking the extra pick. Fact is, our biggest needs are ILB, S, C imo. Those are three positions that are often underrated in the draft because they aren't "sexy."

    It's still BPA of course but I think he looks to move down ala 2010.




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