Are we really ready to let JJ go?

**MarkS** · 01-26-2012, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by Boulderraven

Yes, I read that. But those figures don't include the 2011 -6 million carryover, a 2012 1.5 exemption they may use. The obvious release of never used Foxworth and
Overpaid Evans, you get 30 million under the cap.

Cutting Foxworth and his $5.6Mil base salary won't free up $5.6Mil under the cap. We'll have dead cap money from previously paid bonuses to account for - at least $1Mil from his initial signing bonus (maybe more, I don't have specific figures for all the option/roster/performance bonuses he's been paid in the past).

I believe we'd also have about $1.5Mil in dead cap money if we cut Evans.

We'd actually only about break even by cutting Carr - $3.75Mil from his signing bonus last year would accelerate against the cap.

Cutting Cundiff would only net us a savings of about $400K - and we'd still have to sign another kicker.

**JCroUSAF** · 01-26-2012, 09:35 PM

Is there any cap hit for releasing a player that is still under contract? And I think Cundiff is gone, Graham can do the same if not better for about 1mil a year. I remember someone saying that they are still high on Harewood. I agree Carr is gone we gave him that contract before our in-house guys stepped up. Gorrer was lights out this year

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 01-26-2012, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by Boulderraven

I see your point. We have only about 15 million to spend on UFA's. But looking at the roster, I doubt Lawrence, David Reed(injury), a few EFA's make it, Harewood are locks to take spots. In looking at those figures again Gorrer takes Carr's spot and releasing Cundiff after June makes more room. Can't see paying a 4th corner that much.

They may not be locks to make the roster, but they will be under contract and brought into camp...even if they are not, you have to have 53 guys on the roster and upwards of 70ish for camp bodies...you can't just say "hey we just won't re-sign those EFA's because they won't make the squad"...you have to replace the players on the roster, and likely none will be any cheaper than those EFA's. You can't get right up the cap with only 47 guys under contract.

And you are making a big assumption with Carr...no guarantee either way. And Cundiff will be brought into camp to compete with another kicker. And WTF good would releasing him in June or any players around that time or after camp do? Grubbs and all the other good FA's will have signed a long time before.

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 01-26-2012, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by MarkS

Cutting Foxworth and his $5.6Mil base salary won't free up $5.6Mil under the cap. We'll have dead cap money from previously paid bonuses to account for - at least $1Mil from his initial signing bonus (maybe more, I don't have specific figures for all the option/roster/performance bonuses he's been paid in the past).

I believe we'd also have about $1.5Mil in dead cap money if we cut Evans.

We'd actually only about break even by cutting Carr - $3.75Mil from his signing bonus last year would accelerate against the cap.

Cutting Cundiff would only net us a savings of about $400K - and we'd still have to sign another kicker.

Not entirely true.

Fox's base salary is actually $8.6 million and Evans is $5.75 million...so those figures of cap savings already take into account the cap hits.

Same with Carr and Cundiff...we'd actually save around $2.5 million a piece, just would also have dead money in 2013 in addition to the dead money in 2012.

**MarkS** · 01-26-2012, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

Not entirely true.

Fox's base salary is actually $8.6 million and Evans is $5.75 million...so those figures of cap savings already take into account the cap hits.

Same with Carr and Cundiff...we'd actually save around $2.5 million a piece, just would also have dead money in 2013 in addition to the dead money in 2012.

Those are their cap numbers, not their base salaries:
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore...ique-foxworth/
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/lee-evans/

And yes, we could cut both Carr and Evans after June 1st, and push about $5Mil of the dead cap money into the following season, but the net savings (or non-savings, as it were) doesn't change.

**52decleetzu** · 01-26-2012, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by landspeed

Ray got a +7mil/year contract 2 years ago. Dont try and call him out for spewing shit if you are doing the same

Ray Lewis is the greatest linebacker to ever step foot on a football field, Jarret Johnson is not.

Not even close as a matter of fact.

And one other note about the 14.6 million, that is with cutting Evans and Foxworth forget to mention that. But they are getting cut, so might as well not include them.

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 01-27-2012, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by MarkS

Those are their cap numbers, not their base salaries:
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore...ique-foxworth/
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/lee-evans/

And yes, we could cut both Carr and Evans after June 1st, and push about $5Mil of the dead cap money into the following season, but the net savings (or non-savings, as it were) doesn't change.

My bad.

Point remains though that we save the entire base salary, the cap hit is the difference of 8.6 and 5.6, and that would be the dead money.

We'd be saving $5.6 million instead of the entire $8.6. Same with Evans...both guys contracts expire after next year so there is no dead money for 2013 for either.

And June 1st is not a real date anymore...the CBA allows teams to cut guys at the beginning of the league year, but use the "June 1st" option then. They did that to allow those June 1 vets to get out there with the other guys.

The chart is in the link I showed...sure, there will be some dead money for 2012 only for Fox and Evans due to bonus money, but that prorated portion is still significantly smaller than their base salaries. When you cut a guy, you are no longer responsible for ANY portion of his base salary, just the prorated portion of his bonus, so yes, if we cut Fox, instead of wiping off all of his cap numbe of 8.6, we just wipe off his base salary of 5.6 and have about a 3 million cap him. Same with Evans. Carr is a different story because he still has 3 years of the prorated portion of his bonus from last year, so yes there would be a cap hit in 2013 and the savings may not be worth releasing him.

**wickedsolo** · 01-27-2012, 06:55 AM

As the Eagles proved last year and the Jets prove almost every year, there are ways to work the cap.

**Filmstudy** · 01-27-2012, 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by UKRavenGordon

My want of JJ to stay has nothing to do with Kruger, although I do feel Kruger's best position is as a situational pass rusher, I want us to resign JJ because he's one of the very best run defenders in the NFL.

That's where I am exactly. Have Kruger play run snaps and his pass rushing effectiveness will go down. JJ also needs to play fewer total snaps to maximize effectiveness, as he did in 2011.

**JAB1985** · 01-27-2012, 07:04 AM

JJ is a Raven in every sense of the word. its going to be a hard decision, but hes going to be sought after. even at 30, hes stiill one of the most underrated LBs in the league. hes tough and sets the edge as good as anybody. I think Ozzie makes him an offer over Redding but it might not be enough to keep him.

**Shas** · 01-27-2012, 08:54 AM

My gut says that Johnson is back. Grubbs goes before Johnson does. And Grubbs will command a lot more money on the open market.

**Terpsfan82** · 01-27-2012, 09:05 AM

Yes. He made very few impact plays this past season. A 3-4 defense has to have bookends at OLB who can rush the passer, especially in this era. I liked him, he was a solid player. But watching the Texans with their linebackers made me envious.

**B-more Ravor** · 01-27-2012, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by MarkS

Those are their cap numbers, not their base salaries:
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore...ique-foxworth/
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/lee-evans/

And yes, we could cut both Carr and Evans after June 1st, and push about $5Mil of the dead cap money into the following season, but the net savings (or non-savings, as it were) doesn't change.

Mark - that site is crap. Some of the numbers are accurate, but most are not.

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

My bad.

You just confused "base salary" and "Cap number", but your calculations are correct.

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

Point remains though that we save the entire base salary, the cap hit is the difference of 8.6 and 5.6, and that would be the dead money.

We'd be saving $5.6 million instead of the entire $8.6. Same with Evans...both guys contracts expire after next year so there is no dead money for 2013 for either.

This is correct. Releasing Foxworth and Evans, because they are in the last years of their contracts, basically credits their entire base salary back against the Cap, create that much additional cap space. Only the this year's proration of bonus money remains counting toward the Cap in 2012. There is no carryover into 2013 for them, since the 2012 bonus proration is the final one for each.

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

And June 1st is not a real date anymore...the CBA allows teams to cut guys at the beginning of the league year, but use the "June 1st" option then. They did that to allow those June 1 vets to get out there with the other guys.

Correct also. The CBA allows teams to release 2 players as of the beginning of the new league year with a "June 1 release" designation. The team still has to carry them on the Cap until June 1, but they receive June 1 cap treatment thereafter. It is really of no benefit to the team, but does allow the player to hit the FA market when all the money is still out there.

Carr is certainly a possibility here. That savings from releasing him then, would go a long way toward creating enough Cap space to sign our draft picks. They'll need a little more, but they could basically spend to the Cap before then, and then plan on having that money available when June 1 arrives, with that money budgeted for the draft picks.

**Ravenswintitle** · 01-27-2012, 10:53 AM

Great info in this thread; much appreciated.

**B-more Ravor** · 01-27-2012, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Shas

My gut says that Johnson is back.

Maybe. The fact that he was apparently at the Harbaugh press conference would seem like a good sign.

I would guess that he wants to be back, but in the end, it'll come down to how much Ozzie wants to offer (in comparison to others).

**GOTA** · 01-27-2012, 11:03 AM

They are going to make JJ an offer to stay. It will but up to him if he wants to accept it.

**NCRAVEN** · 01-27-2012, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by B-more Ravor

Maybe. The fact that he was apparently at the Harbaugh press conference would seem like a good sign.

I would guess that he wants to be back, but in the end, it'll come down to how much Ozzie wants to offer (in comparison to others).

HE stated he wants to retire a Raven but understands it's a business. Which tells me he MAY give a home town discount but wonders how much he's still wanted.

**Kevlar** · 01-27-2012, 11:16 AM

JJ is a solid player, but like a lot of Ravens defensive players is probably going to be coveted more by another team. Doesn't mean the Ravens don't want him or can't use him, just that some other team is going to over value him and over pay him. See: bart scott, ed hartwell, adalias thomas, etc.