Washington trades for 2nd overall pick

**pslholder96** · 03-10-2012, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Benny8444

I dont think the skins have the cap space to make a splash at Vincent Jackson

Ummm..yes they do.....around 30M+.

**pslholder96** · 03-10-2012, 01:10 PM

I read on PFT.com of the possibility on the two players the rams covet the most (Blackmon, Morris Clairborne) might not be available when their card comes up. Just thinking out loud but would if they either trade out or move back in the first round and milk even more quality picks from another team. It's an intriguing thought.

**mfdoom42** · 03-10-2012, 01:14 PM

Honestly, as much as they gave up, this trade will look pretty fair if RGIII turns out to be as good as advertised. If they can bring in a #1 receiver like Vincent Jackson to pair with Jabar Gaffney and Fred Davis, they can add that a good RB rotation of Hightower & Helu and a solid defense built around an already good pass-rush with Orakpo (9 sacks) and Kerrigan (7.5 sacks), not to mention Adam Carriker and Stephen Bowen as 3-4 DE's (5.5 & 6 sacks, respectively). Obviously, it all hinges on RGIII and his ability to transition to the NFL, but if he's the real deal, they could be dangerous.

**The Excellector** · 03-10-2012, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by GOTA

RGIII is the poster child for the Shanahan offense. You'll never find a better fit for what Shanahan wants to do. Expensive? Absolutely, but I can understand why they did it.

I agree with you.

Let's think about this for a minute. I know it is Washington and Dan Snyder, but let's think about this for a minute.

THEY'VE ALREADY BEEN SETTING THEMSELVES BACK FOR THE PAST TEN YEARS.

They can't go back any farther. I mean really, is this supposed to suddenly be the obnoxious Washington trade to end all Washington trades and leave them at 0-16 for the next ten years?

Robert Griffin is the ideal fit for Mike Shanahan's system. Washington fans are so used to Dan Snyder giving up draft picks that they should be numb. That's not even counting the trades that didn't go through (When he offered two first round picks and some to Cincinnati for Chad Johnson). Mike Shanahan is known for rubbing his palm on RBs and turning them into 1,000 yard rushers. They actually have some cap space.

If it were any other team, I might say that words could not describe how absurd this is. However, I'm so numb to Washington making moves like this that I just don't see how this could hurt them worse than they've already been hurt.

**The Excellector** · 03-10-2012, 01:53 PM

Adam Schefter said that Washington gave up their 2012, 2013 and 2014 first round picks, along with a second. Can anyone confirm this information please?

**leachisabeast** · 03-10-2012, 01:54 PM

Well I guess that means we wont have to account for three good AFCN QB's now.

**houstonravensfan** · 03-10-2012, 02:28 PM

This move could hurt us. It's reasonable to assume that the Skins will want to protect this enormous investment with a solid O line (built around their stalwart O line keystone, Chris Chester [yuck-yuck]). That might mean they make a really big offer to Grubbs.

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 03-10-2012, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by houstonravensfan

This move could hurt us. It's reasonable to assume that the Skins will want to protect this enormous investment with a solid O line (built around their stalwart O line keystone, Chris Chester [yuck-yuck]). That might mean they make a really big offer to Grubbs.

Guys...Grubbs is as good as gone. We simply don't have the cap room.

**HoustonRaven** · 03-10-2012, 03:04 PM

A deal this big keeps setting them back, that's the point.

And agree with RiW. May as well get used to Grubbs being gone now.

**srobert96** · 03-10-2012, 03:04 PM

The skins do have a ton of cap space but they also have a ton of holes to fill. The challenge is going to be managing the roster. Whenever you build through free agency your team has a lot of turnover.

**OriAl** · 03-10-2012, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

I agree with you.

Let's think about this for a minute. I know it is Washington and Dan Snyder, but let's think about this for a minute.

THEY'VE ALREADY BEEN SETTING THEMSELVES BACK FOR THE PAST TEN YEARS.

They can't go back any farther. I mean really, is this supposed to suddenly be the obnoxious Washington trade to end all Washington trades and leave them at 0-16 for the next ten years?

Robert Griffin is the ideal fit for Mike Shanahan's system. Washington fans are so used to Dan Snyder giving up draft picks that they should be numb. That's not even counting the trades that didn't go through (When he offered two first round picks and some to Cincinnati for Chad Johnson). Mike Shanahan is known for rubbing his palm on RBs and turning them into 1,000 yard rushers. They actually have some cap space.

If it were any other team, I might say that words could not describe how absurd this is. However, I'm so numb to Washington making moves like this that I just don't see how this could hurt them worse than they've already been hurt.

It doesn't seem that difficult to create a 1,000 yard rusher (average 60.6 yards per game.) 1,000 yards was a much bigger achievement in a 12 game season.

How is Washington's offensive line? Can they run block well? Pass block well? How much defensive pressure will be on RG3? If he's forced to run too much, the risk of injury goes up.

**TheJoeFlaccoShow** · 03-10-2012, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

I see your point, but no, I still don't make the deal.

You've still handcuffed yourself at the sake of the future. Without the draft picks, you have no cohesive plan to build for the future.

You have handcuffed yourself for the next 3 years only, and if RG3 pans out he will be around for 12-15. Plenty of time to build around him, QB's take years to develop anyway so you aren't going to be losing out on a Super Bowl in those 2 years any way you look at it.

You take the short term loss for the possibility to have a dynamic QB for the next 12-15 years. Every single time when you have a prospect like RG3. You can slowly build around him for a couple years and then be right back on track, hopefully with your franchise QB ready to take that leap in year 3 or 4.

**BcRaven** · 03-10-2012, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by TheJoeFlaccoShow

You have handcuffed yourself for the next 3 years only, and if RG3 pans out he will be around for 12-15. Plenty of time to build around him, QB's take years to develop anyway so you aren't going to be losing out on a Super Bowl in those 2 years any way you look at it.
You take the short term loss for the possibility to have a dynamic QB for the next 12-15 years. Every single time when you have a prospect like RG3. You can slowly build around him for a couple years and then be right back on track, hopefully with your franchise QB ready to take that leap in year 3 or 4.

In year 3 or 4 those draft picks traded (in 2012-2014) would have been entering their prime. Plus, how do you know RG3 will be as advertised? A BIG gamble by the Skins if you ask me... Bc

**JMUpurkfool** · 03-10-2012, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by BcRaven

In year 3 or 4 those draft picks traded (in 2012-2014) would have been entering their prime. Plus, how do you know RG3 will be as advertised? A BIG gamble by the Skins if you ask me... Bc

Of course it's a gamble. Everything in the NFL involves risk. Is this riskier than giving a fat lazy dumbass a 100 million dollar contract (Fat Al)? Not IMO. The Skins now have something they haven't had... almost ever. They can look at a player on their team and say he has the potential to be one of the top 5 players in the league one day. Even if he doesn't reach those heights and becomes a top 10 QB it's still worth it because you need a QB to win in this league and they weren't going to get one otherwise.

**BcRaven** · 03-10-2012, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by JMUpurkfool

Of course it's a gamble. Everything in the NFL involves risk. Is this riskier than giving a fat lazy dumbass a 100 million dollar contract (Fat Al)? Not IMO. The Skins now have something they haven't had... almost ever. They can look at a player on their team and say he has the potential to be one of the top 5 players in the league one day. Even if he doesn't reach those heights and becomes a top 10 QB it's still worth it because you need a QB to win in this league and they weren't going to get one otherwise.

JMU, there are RISKS and there are CALCULATED RISKS. IMO the Skins over-paid for the priviledge to move up a couple of draft spots. Three #1's and a #2 is too much. If their pick (you know who) doesn't pan out, it could be 5 - 10 years before they're competitive again. I know teams have to roll the dice now and then, but remind me again of which team gave Fat Al that $100 million? ... Bc

**srobert96** · 03-10-2012, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by JMUpurkfool

Of course it's a gamble. Everything in the NFL involves risk. Is this riskier than giving a fat lazy dumbass a 100 million dollar contract (Fat Al)? Not IMO. The Skins now have something they haven't had... almost ever. They can look at a player on their team and say he has the potential to be one of the top 5 players in the league one day. Even if he doesn't reach those heights and becomes a top 10 QB it's still worth it because you need a QB to win in this league and they weren't going to get one otherwise.

I don't know about saying he has the potential to be Top 5 in the NFL one day. That distinction goes to just about any player drafted in the first round. Every year the NFL goes into hype mode on QBs and rarely if ever do QBs live up to them. McShay said that Jamarcus Russell delivered the best pro day workout he has ever seen. There is no such thing as can't miss. I don't know what RGIII will be and really no one else does either. He could end up being a good but not great QB. He could end up great or he could end up a bust. There are so many first rounders that amount to nothing.

**Boulderraven** · 03-10-2012, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Haloti92

Least hesitant? Or least willing (most hesitant)? I ask because I think this year's 2nd rounder is overkill payment, because it is so early in the 2nd round (isn't far from a late round 1st).

Future picks, from what I have researched (though if anyone has good sources about the topic please post links, I am curious), are valued very nebulously. I have read that some teams value future 1st rounders, in general, as the last pick in the 1st round of this year's draft (i.e. they do not try to 'predict' where the gifting team will finish next year or where the pick will actually fall in terms of valuing it now). I also have read some teams value them even less (into the middle of the 2nd round of this year's draft).

According to the standard draft pick value chart, which obviously isn't gospel. Moving to the #2 slot from #6 should cost this year's #16. But trades to move up in the first have always come with a premium to be paid by the team moving up. Historically I think it has been around 4% but in recent past as much as 10-11%. So, without getting into to how special RG3 is relative to other players that teams have moved up to grab, the move to #2 should cost around the #14 pick of this year (now including the premium). And if you value all future 1st round picks at this year's #32, as some teams do, then the #14 pick of this year equals almost 2 future first rounders (1100 vs 1180, which is 590 (32 pick) times)

In short, I think moving from #6 to #2 basically does cost about 2 future 1st rounders. But the 2nd rounder, this year, so early in the round, is the massive "RG3" premium.

I meant to say the Skins were likely most hesitant to part with the 2nd pick. Not enough coffee before posting.

**TheJoeFlaccoShow** · 03-10-2012, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by BcRaven

In year 3 or 4 those draft picks traded (in 2012-2014) would have been entering their prime. Plus, how do you know RG3 will be as advertised? A BIG gamble by the Skins if you ask me... Bc

How do you know the picks you traded will pan out?

You don't.

Of course it is a gamble, but you have to take it when you have no QB.

**JMUpurkfool** · 03-10-2012, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by BcRaven

JMU, there are RISKS and there are CALCULATED RISKS. IMO the Skins over-paid for the priviledge to move up a couple of draft spots. Three #1's and a #2 is too much. If their pick (you know who) doesn't pan out, it could be 5 - 10 years before they're competitive again. I know teams have to roll the dice now and then, but remind me again of which team gave Fat Al that $100 million? ... Bc

If the Skins didn't make the trade, the Browns were. Reports from La Canfora said that Cleveland submitted a very similar deal to St. Louis after Washington.

**arnie_uk** · 03-11-2012, 08:40 AM

its not really three ones, its really two, because they get a one in return.. the ones are swapped, they "lost" or "gave up" two 1s and a 2

Originally Posted by BcRaven

JMU, there are RISKS and there are CALCULATED RISKS. IMO the Skins over-paid for the priviledge to move up a couple of draft spots. Three #1's and a #2 is too much. If their pick (you know who) doesn't pan out, it could be 5 - 10 years before they're competitive again. I know teams have to roll the dice now and then, but remind me again of which team gave Fat Al that $100 million? ... Bc