Does anyone think Ray Rice could hold out?

**Terpsfan82** · 04-04-2012, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by Corey

Your serious? You do realize that Ray Rice has been the team's starter for 3 years and for all 3 years his backup made significantly more money then him. Last season the Ravens were paying his freaking FB MORE than him. Think about that for a second. This is the guy giving you nearly 2000 yards per season and you've got a guy that rarely if ever touches the football(FB) and the guy who comes in for clean up duty (back up RB) making more than the most productive player on offense.

Rice has every right in the world to scrap for every last penny. He's already given the Ravens a discount, why do fans expect him to give another one?

This. Although I would be pissed if he held out, he's still one of my favorite players.

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 04-04-2012, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

I totally agree with most of what you said here, but none of that was my argument. I'm not saying players should ever come before the team from a fans prospective, however there is no shame for a player to become attached to another player and hope to hell he remains with the team even if it means harming the teams cap situation. Obviously the player needs to be an elite player in the NFL to be considered that kind of commitment. I know that Ray Lewis will be gone soon, but remember that he has been with the Ravens since they began back in 1996, and I very much doubt the Ravens would have been what they are today or what they are known for if we hadn't drafted him, and I also doubt that we would have won the superbowl without him either.

I didn't say there was any shame in it...however in this day and age of UFA and Salary Cap, you are setting yourself up for disappointment when the players leave. These players are out for themselves. I don't blame them, and I don't blame the teams for cutting guys that can't do for their salaries. It's a business for the teams and the players...not the utopia of family.

I love both Ray's and what they've done for the team, but I am not big on harming the team longterm for any player. The train moves on...but it won't if you keep holding onto guys over sentimental reasons.

**srobert96** · 04-04-2012, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Corey

Your serious? You do realize that Ray Rice has been the team's starter for 3 years and for all 3 years his backup made significantly more money then him. Last season the Ravens were paying his freaking FB MORE than him. Think about that for a second. This is the guy giving you nearly 2000 yards per season and you've got a guy that rarely if ever touches the football(FB) and the guy who comes in for clean up duty (back up RB) making more than the most productive player on offense.

Rice has every right in the world to scrap for every last penny. He's already given the Ravens a discount, why do fans expect him to give another one?

I don't expect him to give the Ravens a discount. I even said that I understood it was a business. I do sour on players who want significantly more than market value. Market value of a RB of his caliber is in the Arian Foster range. I know nothing is considered fact but what has been rumored is that he wants in the AP neighborhood and not in the Foster neighborhood. What he has played for under his rookie contract has no bearings on what he should be paid moving forward. He did not take a discount to play in Bmore. He signed a rookie contract like every other player.

I would not blame him for not attending OTAs. I would sour if he wants to significantly more than market value and held out of TC. I would also sour a bit with the front office if they were low balling him.

**wickedsolo** · 04-04-2012, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by srobert96

I don't expect him to give the Ravens a discount. I even said that I understood it was a business. I do sour on players who want significantly more than market value. Market value of a RB of his caliber is in the Arian Foster range. I know nothing is considered fact but what has been rumored is that he wants in the AP neighborhood and not in the Foster neighborhood. What he has played for under his rookie contract has no bearings on what he should be paid moving forward. He did not take a discount to play in Bmore. He signed a rookie contract like every other player.

I would not blame him for not attending OTAs. I would sour if he wants to significantly more than market value and held out of TC. I would also sour a bit with the front office if they were low balling him.

Which, supposedly, they've offered him a contract similar to what Arian Foster got. Potentially even slightly more.

**Teavo** · 04-04-2012, 11:47 AM

I don't know why people here think Ray Rice was giving the Ravens a discount when he was playing under a rookie contract, and comparing that to the veteran contracts that his backup and FB were playing under. If you have a problem with rookies and vets being paid on different scales, then that's a beef you have with the CBA, the NFL, and the NFLPA for the labor agreement they hammered out.

Ray Rice deserves to be paid something similar to what Arian Foster got.

So if - and I stress if - the Ravens have offered him that, and if Rice has spurned the offer, an offer I think is fair, then count me in with the fans who will begin to sour on Ray.

I want to see Rice be paid fairly. Foster money is fair. More than that is greedy and bad for the team.

**bmorebirds_24** · 04-04-2012, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

I didn't say there was any shame in it...however in this day and age of UFA and Salary Cap, you are setting yourself up for disappointment when the players leave. These players are out for themselves. I don't blame them, and I don't blame the teams for cutting guys that can't do for their salaries. It's a business for the teams and the players...not the utopia of family.

I love both Ray's and what they've done for the team, but I am not big on harming the team longterm for any player. The train moves on...but it won't if you keep holding onto guys over sentimental reasons.

The front office should give you a look. Your post in this thread are how it should be.

Rice is the big team guy, I'm sure the Ravens gave him a more then fair offer and he won't take it. So therefore he is holding the team in a salary cap bind until he realizes that he is getting what he's worth and not any more.

BTW - I think Ed Reed should take a pay cut. He's not worth his cap number he has now, anymore.

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**wickedsolo** · 04-04-2012, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by bmorebirds_24

The front office should give you a look. Your post in this thread are how it should be.

Rice is the big team guy, I'm sure the Ravens gave him a more then fair offer and he won't take it. So therefore he is holding the team in a salary cap bind until he realizes that he is getting what he's worth and not any more.

BTW - I think Ed Reed should take a pay cut. He's not worth his cap number he has now, anymore.

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Other than Ray Lewis, that's how it has been. Ray Lewis is the only player the Ravens have ever really "held onto".

Unless Ed Reed comes back for a reasonable price tag next year, I doubt the Ravens push real hard to re-sign him.

**lovefootball** · 04-04-2012, 04:20 PM

If Rice holds out, next, man up!Rice did well against most teams, but had problems against the teams we needed to beat.Can't claim to be all that when he couldn't make a big difference in the pats game. Pick up those first downs when it mattered the most and the Ravens go to the SB the last several years.

**Benny8444** · 04-05-2012, 10:06 AM

I do not think whatsoever he skips games. The ravens hold all the cards here and he said if he had to he would play under the tag. When he holds out (notice I said when) I believe it will be until the end of camp. But there is no need to get a deal done now as they have till july 15. Look at Suggs when was his deal done, around july 15 of that year. My gut says they agree to a deal around the july 15 deadline. I also belive Flacco gets done before then. Webb Should be done most likely during the season or right before.

**vinny600** · 04-06-2012, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by arnie_uk

i think it was aaron wilson said we offered similar to foster deal, but a wee bit more than it, and then his agent said something in the media that they are looking more in the lines of AP money

Everyone keeps saying the Ravens offered Rice a deal similar to Foster's. Arnie_uk suggested it may have been this guy (thanks Arnie) but I can't find any reference to that. I've seen him say that the Foster deal "could be a good comparison for Rice negotiations", but not that the Ravens actually offered him that.

Ray Rice deserves at least what Foster got, and he cannot risk getting hurt while playing under the tag. He may play this year under it but I would be shocked if he played next year under it.

If the Ravens did offer him Foster money that's one thing, but if they didn't than they are low balling him and he has every right to do what's best for himself and his family. I think he knows that the Ravens are a billion dollar enterprise, and he has already played for way less than he's worth. Hell he could have pulled a Chris Johnson and demanded more money last year but he played out his contract and now he deserves to get paid.

**pslholder96** · 04-06-2012, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by lovefootball

If Rice holds out, next, man up!Rice did well against most teams, but had problems against the teams we needed to beat.Can't claim to be all that when he couldn't make a big difference in the pats game. Pick up those first downs when it mattered the most and the Ravens go to the SB the last several years.

Way to devalue Ray Rice. Next man up? Easier said than done. Looked at who's listed on the depth chart after Rice and all you'll find is a bunch of boys (Allen, Berry).

**wickedsolo** · 04-06-2012, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by pslholder96

Way to devalue Ray Rice. Next man up? Easier said than done. Looked at who's listed on the depth chart after Rice and all you'll find is a bunch of boys (Allen, Berry).

Many have noted on here that replicating Rice's production in this offense will not be as difficult as some think it will.

I'm not advocating that replacing Rice is the best thing to do as he is a massive portion of this offense and the team (nearly 1/3rd of the offensive production went through Rice the past two seasons), but ultimately the success of this offense hinges on Joe Flacco.

It is reasonable to think that with a better offensive line and better receivers, Double-A or even a rookie RB could provide enough of a running game to make the offense as productive.

**wickedsolo** · 04-06-2012, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by vinny600

Everyone keeps saying the Ravens offered Rice a deal similar to Foster's. Arnie_uk suggested it may have been this guy (thanks Arnie) but I can't find any reference to that. I've seen him say that the Foster deal "could be a good comparison for Rice negotiations", but not that the Ravens actually offered him that.

Ray Rice deserves at least what Foster got, and he cannot risk getting hurt while playing under the tag. He may play this year under it but I would be shocked if he played next year under it.

If the Ravens did offer him Foster money that's one thing, but if they didn't than they are low balling him and he has every right to do what's best for himself and his family. I think he knows that the Ravens are a billion dollar enterprise, and he has already played for way less than he's worth. Hell he could have pulled a Chris Johnson and demanded more money last year but he played out his contract and now he deserves to get paid.

Actually, Tony is the one who alluded to the Ravens offering Rice a contract similar to what Foster got. He doesn't have any substantial proof on that, just what he's been told by his sources and I've no reason to doubt him.

**Benny8444** · 04-06-2012, 09:25 AM

I remember reading that he was offered a contract like fosters but at this point like I said before the is no reason to accept it. There is no sense of urgeny on either side as July 15 is 3 months away. I do believe they get a deal done as rice said he does not want to play under the tag but will. No need to get a deal done now. Let's get flacco done then when July 1 comes along we can bring back the rice talks. It won't happen till then because no one will budge until there is a sense of urgency. The only way it happens before July 15 is if he accepts the deal foster got which RIGHT NOW I don't think he will do. That may change in July.

**wickedsolo** · 04-06-2012, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Benny8444

I remember reading that he was offered a contract like fosters but at this point like I said before the is no reason to accept it. There is no sense of urgeny on either side as July 15 is 3 months away. I do believe they get a deal done as rice said he does not want to play under the tag but will. No need to get a deal done now. Let's get flacco done then when July 1 comes along we can bring back the rice talks. It won't happen till then because no one will budge until there is a sense of urgency. The only way it happens before July 15 is if he accepts the deal foster got which RIGHT NOW I don't think he will do. That may change in July.

The thing is even if he signs the Franchise Tag that doesn't stop them from continuing to iron out a long term deal, which would replace the tag and it's implications.

**BcRaven** · 04-06-2012, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

... It is reasonable to think that with a better offensive line and better receivers, Double-A or even a rookie RB could provide enough of a running game to make the offense as productive.

I never liked that argument, because you can always say...WR "A" would have greater stats if he had a better QB throwing to him; CB "B" would have more INTs if his team had a better pass-rush; QB "C" would have improved stats if he had a better Oline; etc. IMO Ray Rice is a STAR quality player that AA or a rookie RB cannot replace IF a team has Super Bowl aspirations like the Ravens do... Bc

**wickedsolo** · 04-06-2012, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by BcRaven

I never liked that argument, because you can always say...WR "A" would have greater stats if he had a better QB throwing to him; CB "B" would have more INTs if his team had a better pass-rush; QB "C" would have improved stats if he had a better Oline; etc. IMO Ray Rice is a STAR quality player that AA or a rookie RB cannot replace IF a team has Super Bowl aspirations like the Ravens do... Bc

That is definitely not an outlandish opinion either and I do agree to a point. The goal, IMO, is to not only win the SB this year...but win multiple SB's over the course of several years and potentially putting future cap in jeopardy for any player is not a great business plan from my perspective.

Overall, my point was that this team's SB aspirations are going to live and die with Flacco, not Ray Rice.

**BcRaven** · 04-06-2012, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

That is definitely not an outlandish opinion either and I do agree to a point. The goal, IMO, is to not only win the SB this year...but win multiple SB's over the course of several years and potentially putting future cap in jeopardy for any player is not a great business plan from my perspective.

Overall, my point was that this team's SB aspirations are going to live and die with Flacco, not Ray Rice.

While I see your point, and agree with most of it, I just don't think any old RB can come in and replace Rice's production (even with better WRs and Oline). I wouldn't "break the bank" for Rice, but let's not down-play what he brings to the Ravens offense either... Bc

**wickedsolo** · 04-06-2012, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by BcRaven

While I see your point, and agree with most of it, I just don't think any old RB can come in and replace Rice's production (even with better WRs and Oline). I wouldn't "break the bank" for Rice, but let's not down-play what he brings to the Ravens offense either... Bc

I don't think that I'm downplaying him at all. If anything, I think it speaks to what he brings to the table when I stated that you could potentially have 2 guys replicate what Rice did (meaning Double-A + Berry or someone else).

I think even towards the first couple pages of this specific thread Shas and I were discussing the actual amount of "value" that Rice brings to the table versus what Foster brings to Houston. When it's all said and done, both guys brought approximately 35% of the offense to their respective teams. That is a ridiculous thing when you think about it and replacing it or coming close to replicating it is not an easy feat at all, but the Ravens wouldn't be the first team to go that route IF they chose to do so.

**BcRaven** · 04-06-2012, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I don't think that I'm downplaying him at all. If anything, I think it speaks to what he brings to the table when I stated that you could potentially have 2 guys replicate what Rice did (meaning Double-A + Berry or someone else).

I think even towards the first couple pages of this specific thread Shas and I were discussing the actual amount of "value" that Rice brings to the table versus what Foster brings to Houston. When it's all said and done, both guys brought approximately 35% of the offense to their respective teams. That is a ridiculous thing when you think about it and replacing it or coming close to replicating it is not an easy feat at all, but the Ravens wouldn't be the first team to go that route IF they chose to do so.

Nobody wants to over-pay for something, be it a used car or a fixer-upper house. I just like resigning players (Webb is a great example) when they are entering their most productive years. I wouldn't resign Ed Reed to a high contract, but IMO Rice (and Flacco when his time comes) deserve it. I'm glad the Ravens used the Franchise Tag on Rice because we know he'll be with us in 2012. Sorry to repeat, but I think you (and others) diminish the RB position a bit due to the rules that aid the passing game. I just don't agree with that belief... Bc