If these are the best five players available at 29, who do you take?

**Lime in the Coconut** · 04-03-2012, 04:22 PM

I went with Upshaw immediately. I get the concern around him, but if there's one way to describe his game it is physical. He's just a guy that likes contact and it's evident in his play. He's not a finesse player. He holds his own on the edge against the run and I think he's a better rusher than people give him credit for. He's got strong hands to move off blockers and I do believe he's a 3-4 OLB.

Hill is a possible option and I LOVE his upside but he's risky IMO because there isn't much tape on him due to the scheme at GT, but he's tempting for sure. He might be the pick if he's there, Joe Horitz really seems to like him.

I don't really see where Hightower fits now with Jameel back and I agree that we could have a value player later in the draft at ILB.

**Lime in the Coconut** · 04-03-2012, 04:34 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szYjj1uzib4

Here is Upshaw vs Florida, really displays what he's all about. I agree that he's quite pedestrian in space and he doesn't change direction real well, but he sets the edge well and uses his hands and power as a pass rusher very well.

**BleedPurple92** · 04-03-2012, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Lime in the Coconut

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szYjj1uzib4

Here is Upshaw vs Florida, really displays what he's all about. I agree that he's quite pedestrian in space and he doesn't change direction real well, but he sets the edge well and uses his hands and power as a pass rusher very well.

He's such an average pass Rusher. Why do people keep dubbing him one of the best pass rushers in the draft?

Ask yourself this question. Would you take Jarrett Johnson in the first round? Because he is basically another Jarret Johnson, I love JJ, but that's all he is, a great run defender, that can set the edge with the best of them, but leaves you wanting more as a pass rusher.

**Lime in the Coconut** · 04-03-2012, 04:43 PM

I agree with you, he's not a great pass rusher and he doesn't have the ability of someone like Perry or Mercilus off the edge, but he's pretty good IMO. I think he could offer a little more than JJ as a pass rusher and get better. He's a very physical presence too. I think you can tell why his stock has fallen and there are more gifted guys out there, but to me he fits us with his physical play and I believe he can be a pretty good pass rusher at the next level, but he's just not an elite guy. I can see the concern with him but he fits us IMHO.

**arnie_uk** · 04-03-2012, 04:56 PM

I voted for upshaw but im not really sold on any of the choices/

Upshaw i think is nothing much more than JJ
Hightower i think will be too much like McClain, so we will have two run stoppers when Ray retires and get passed on over the middle all day
Konz i dont think is a first round talent but is placed there because of a lack of talent.
Adams i have pegged as another Oher, RT in this league.
Hill has great measureables, but can you draft him on the first based on that? trade back into the top 10 of the second and take him yes. I know he has huge upside but he has huge risk as well, can we risk missing?

**Ravenswintitle** · 04-03-2012, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by BleedPurple92

To be honest with you that had to be one of the most overrated performances i can remember. He got a free sack, unblocked, and he made another play on a poorly executed option. Those plays were the main reason he won that MVP.

I just see bust written all over this guy we will have to wait and see, but its just a feeling i have. He isn't special in anyway. He doesn't do anything especially great. I just dont see what people see in this guy.

come on bleed, he had 2 sacks, 3 tackles behind the line, a forced fumble.. all in that game. Here are a couple profiles from reliable sources:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/p...ourtney-upshaw

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...012&genpos=OLB

**leachisabeast** · 04-03-2012, 05:07 PM

Courtney Upshaw is a no brainer if he is there at 29. I'm not throwing it out there and saying that he is going to be as good as Suggs, if ever, but he has good upside and is someone who can turn into a great compliment to Suggs in our pass rush which we have been missing for years now. I like Paul Kruger, but Upshaw has more upside and can defend the run, infact I could see Upshaw making a good MLB because he is that good of a run thumper.

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 04-03-2012, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by BleedPurple92

He's such an average pass Rusher. Why do people keep dubbing him one of the best pass rushers in the draft?

Ask yourself this question. Would you take Jarrett Johnson in the first round? Because he is basically another Jarret Johnson, I love JJ, but that's all he is, a great run defender, that can set the edge with the best of them, but leaves you wanting more as a pass rusher.

I agree, I really like Upshaw and wouldn't be upset if we took him, but he's not a good pass rusher. He really is only a bull rush guy and can't get around the edge.

Some people have been comparing him to Suggs, but JJ is the proper comparison. Upshaw could only dream of the pass rushing productivity that Suggs had in college.

He is obviously very good against the run though...he does as good a job of getting his hands on the blocker and then disengaging as I've ever seen from a DE/OLB in college.

**Rxdoxx** · 04-03-2012, 05:29 PM

Given those 5 choices? Only those 5, only way is to rank them.
Adams, only thing putting him there is the fact he is a LT, matches a team need, and LTs usually get overrated, so any that fall that far means non-elite issues, and I'll pass

I can't see drafting a center unless he can be a dominant LG. I read his size and go WOW, that is a beast of a C, then I read digs on his leverage and bending and think/wonder if he can be a great LG. If we needed a C, then maybe but I'll pass in the first round and look for one later.

Hightower, what I'm reading in some sense seems to be Ray Lewis (the now Ray, not the sideline to sideline great downfield drop coverage of Ray when he arrived here). A number 1 pick ? Yeah he could be worth it, I just don't see team improvement.

Hill I really don't know, and I am not real good at evaluating WR for the next level. I've read what others have written about him here but will pass because I do like the potential already on the team

Leaves Upshaw who I can see pretty quickly stepping into JJ's role, with a little quicker pass rush, not that he will be great, and like JJ could come out for Paul on 3rd and long, but I can see him blitzing where I couldn't see JJ.

1.Upshaw
2.Hightower
3.Adams
4.Hill
5.Konz
is my ranking of these 5

**BigPlayReceiver** · 04-03-2012, 05:34 PM

Upshaw. I'm addressing a known deficiency.

Upshaw opposite Suggs + our defensive backfield = a little taste of 2000? Ok...maybe not, but it's an improvement.

Brady, Vick, Romo, Rivers, Schaub, both Mannings, throw in Ben and Dalton two times each = almost no breaks this year.

Of course, we had "breaks" on the schedule last year and look how that turned out.

**bmorecareful** · 04-03-2012, 05:47 PM

You guys are just getting way too cute with Upshaw. It's really not that complicated. He was the best player on the best defense in football in 2011, and if you think teams weren't gameplanning specifically for him--and failing--you weren't watching.

Go back and watch his tape. No, he does NOT have the best first step in this draft. But he can beat you on the outside and he can beat you inside. He already has an NFL-ready rip move, spin move, and bull rush. He has a better pass rushing repertoire than most of the quick-twitch guys you'll find who make their hay in college against guys who will be selling insurance after graduation.

Look guys, what you're not getting is that Vernon Gholston had one of the best first steps I've ever seen and a wonderful 40 time. But he couldn't use his hands, wasn't physical, had awful pad level, and COULD NOT RUSH THE PASSER. Upshaw isn't fast, but he has everything a pass rusher needs. Again, all I can say is comparing him to Jarrett Johnson is just totally off base and shows you haven't watched his game.

Upshaw is easily the best of the 5 players on the list and if he falls beyond the 20th pick, whoever is drafting him is getting a ridiculous deal. He would make our defense lethal.

**BleedPurple92** · 04-03-2012, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

come on bleed, he had 2 sacks, 3 tackles behind the line, a forced fumble.. all in that game. Here are a couple profiles from reliable sources:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/p...ourtney-upshaw

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...012&genpos=OLB

One of his sacks, you and I could have made that, they didn't bother blocking him, the other one was more earned. The 3 tackles behind the line we're plays that any player could have made. I urge you to go back and watch that game, or even his highlights. He leaves you wanting more and it was incredibly impressive to him. I just wouldn't want us drafting this guy. I dont see the upside in taking him.

I think he benefited from playing in one of the best defenses in modern history. He was in a system that made all its players look like first round picks. They might have 4 players taken in the first round on that defense, and a few more drafted after that. I just think he has bust written all over him. He isn't a great pass rusher. Its that simple, he is not a good pass rusher. You dont take a great edge setter with your first.

**BleedPurple92** · 04-03-2012, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

You guys are just getting way too cute with Upshaw. It's really not that complicated. He was the best player on the best defense in football in 2011, and if you think teams weren't gameplanning specifically for him--and failing--you weren't watching.

Go back and watch his tape. No, he does NOT have the best first step in this draft. But he can beat you on the outside and he can beat you inside. He already has an NFL-ready rip move, spin move, and bull rush. He has a better pass rushing repertoire than most of the quick-twitch guys you'll find who make their hay in college against guys who will be selling insurance after graduation.

Look guys, what you're not getting is that Vernon Gholston had one of the best first steps I've ever seen and a wonderful 40 time. But he couldn't use his hands, wasn't physical, had awful pad level, and COULD NOT RUSH THE PASSER. Upshaw isn't fast, but he has everything a pass rusher needs. Again, all I can say is comparing him to Jarrett Johnson is just totally off base and shows you haven't watched his game.

Upshaw is easily the best of the 5 players on the list and if he falls beyond the 20th pick, whoever is drafting him is getting a ridiculous deal. He would make our defense lethal.

I would argue that Hightower was the best player on that defense. He was the captain, and he called the plays on the most complicated defense in college football. He also made plays all season. Upshaw was a GREAT college football player. You cant argue that, but does his skill set translate to the NFL? How many guys with his skill set succeed as great Pass rushers in the NFL? You cant Bull rush NFL offensive lineman, pass rush in the NFL requires you to be more quick that strong. He just doesn't have a quick twitch to him. His game is all power which isn't what translates to sacks in the NFL.

**Ravenswintitle** · 04-03-2012, 06:15 PM

It won't matter anyway Bleed, Upshaw won't be there when the Ravens pick

**alien bird** · 04-03-2012, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

You guys are just getting way too cute with Upshaw. It's really not that complicated. He was the best player on the best defense in football in 2011, and if you think teams weren't gameplanning specifically for him--and failing--you weren't watching.

Go back and watch his tape. No, he does NOT have the best first step in this draft. But he can beat you on the outside and he can beat you inside. He already has an NFL-ready rip move, spin move, and bull rush. He has a better pass rushing repertoire than most of the quick-twitch guys you'll find who make their hay in college against guys who will be selling insurance after graduation.

Look guys, what you're not getting is that Vernon Gholston had one of the best first steps I've ever seen and a wonderful 40 time. But he couldn't use his hands, wasn't physical, had awful pad level, and COULD NOT RUSH THE PASSER. Upshaw isn't fast, but he has everything a pass rusher needs. Again, all I can say is comparing him to Jarrett Johnson is just totally off base and shows you haven't watched his game.

Upshaw is easily the best of the 5 players on the list and if he falls beyond the 20th pick, whoever is drafting him is getting a ridiculous deal. He would make our defense lethal.

I'm not anti-Upshaw at all. However, given those five guys, I would rather see the Ravens get into the 21st century with their offense - it's a passing league now and the value of multiple quality WRs cannot be understated. I think the defensive needs can be more easily met in later rounds.

If the Ravens select Upshaw I'm okay with that, but that isn't the thread.

**JMUpurkfool** · 04-03-2012, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by BleedPurple92

One of his sacks, you and I could have made that, they didn't bother blocking him, the other one was more earned. The 3 tackles behind the line we're plays that any player could have made. I urge you to go back and watch that game, or even his highlights. He leaves you wanting more and it was incredibly impressive to him. I just wouldn't want us drafting this guy. I dont see the upside in taking him.

I think he benefited from playing in one of the best defenses in modern history. He was in a system that made all its players look like first round picks. They might have 4 players taken in the first round on that defense, and a few more drafted after that. I just think he has bust written all over him. He isn't a great pass rusher. Its that simple, he is not a good pass rusher. You dont take a great edge setter with your first.

I'm sure he had nothing to do with that.

**ballhawk** · 04-03-2012, 08:41 PM

Konz or Upshaw. Ill go konz cuz I don't think upshaw will be there at 29. Look...we just lost a 1st round interior lineman. Let's replace him with the best center in the draft...he can play LG this year and slide over next, when birk hangs it up. They need to start beefing up that line with some young talent...birk and mckinnie are at the end and im not so sure oher gets a longterm deal.

Just say no!...to a 1st round wr. Nobody sitting there at 29 is going to be worth the pick..esp a 2-3 year project player. Flacco is getting ready to hit the sweet spot of his career. Keep him protected and maybe he starts making lesser known wr's as productive as we have seen brady/manning do over the last decade. Those guys are so good cuz they never get touched.

**leachisabeast** · 04-03-2012, 09:20 PM

I actually find it baffling that people think that Upshaw would be a bad draft pick in the first, and how some people think he will be a sure bust in the NFL. He was the star player on that defense, you think that defense would have been the same without him?

**Shas** · 04-04-2012, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

It won't matter anyway Bleed, Upshaw won't be there when the Ravens pick

I debated whether to include him, but a bunch of mock drafts had him going 27, 28, or 29. Not that mock drafts have any real legitimacy, but that was enough to convince me to include him in a list of guys who could be there. Hightower shows up as a Steelers pick at 24 on a bunch o mocks, but then falls to the second round on a few others. Adams is probably more polarizing...there are mocks that have him going in the teens, or falling out of the first completely. He'd be my last choice on this list.

I chose Hightower because I like his intangibles. And I am not really sold on McClain and Ellerbe as long-term answers.

**GOTA** · 04-04-2012, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by Shas

I debated whether to include him, but a bunch of mock drafts had him going 27, 28, or 29. Not that mock drafts have any real legitimacy, but that was enough to convince me to include him in a list of guys who could be there. Hightower shows up as a Steelers pick at 24 on a bunch o mocks, but then falls to the second round on a few others. Adams is probably more polarizing...there are mocks that have him going in the teens, or falling out of the first completely. He'd be my last choice on this list.

I chose Hightower because I like his intangibles. And I am not really sold on McClain and Ellerbe as long-term answers.

I haven't even seen Adams in the 1st round since the Combine in any of the mocks that I follow. I didn't realize that anyone was high on him.