Flacco Deal Update...

**GOTA** · 04-07-2012, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by chicagoravensfan

Let's say Flacco has a similar year in 2012 to the first 4 years of his career, the Ravens make the playoffs again but not the Super Bowl and then he hits the market as a UFA. I don't think this will happen, but just as a hypothetical. So a guy who's regarded as between the #10-15 QB is on the market. What other teams are bidding for him? If it's a team with a great running game and defense but just looking for a decent QB to get them over the top (say the 49ers), well it's hard to see how that team could value Flacco more than the Ravens. If the Ravens don't make the Super Bowl in 2012 why would this other team think he could take them there? If it's a bad team than they would probably bring in Flacco to compete with a rookie for a starting job. Hard to see how that team values Flacco more than the Ravens.

I think one of the reasons negotiations could take a while is that the Ravens recognize there would not be a ton of competition for Flacco's services if he hit the market (as a 6th year guy who hasn't taken a very talented team to the Super Bowl) while Flacco's team doesn't see it that way.

Good QBs in their prime rarely hit the market. Let's look at this season for example. You had Manning, Flynn and Alex Smith. I would think that a whole bunch of those teams who wanted Manning would also be competing heavily towards getting Flacco. Imagine how many tickets Flacco would sell in Miami with his reputation for winning playoff games? They would pay big money for that.

**ActualSpamBot** · 04-07-2012, 05:14 PM

Before you claim that you don't see a huge demand for Flacco, let's look at the teams who could reasonably be looking at Joe as an upgrade to their QB spot next year.

AFC:
Browns (Depending on how they draft this year)
Dolphins
Jags
Chiefs
Raiders

AFC Possibles depending on some reasonably probable scenarios:

Broncos (If Manning is as beat up as many of us believe, his deal is designed to be very easy to terminate after year 1 if his neck can't hold up.)

Bills (Assuming they can dump Fitzpatrick's ludicrous deal.)

Jets (Sanchez is garbage and Tebow is exciting garbage, if Rex is ousted a new coach would be in the market for a new QB.)

NFC:

9ers
Rams
Cardinals

NFC possibles depending on circumstance:

Saints ( If they can't keep Brees without tagging twice, they may consider kicking the tires on a much cheaper Flacco.)

Eagles (Depending on Mike Vick's performance this year, does he rebound or continue to flounder while missing significant time.)

Cowboys (Romo has numbers but no one in that team has any faith in him.)

Bucs: (Depends on how Freeman rebounds from a bad sophomore season.)

So that's 15 teams who stand varying degrees of chance of viewing Joe as a upgrade. Not to mention the handful of teams with recently drafted rookies or who are expected to draft rookies this year who may start next year with new coaching staffs compared to this year. Also us.

I think it's safe to say there would be a feeding frenzy.

**redmike34** · 04-07-2012, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by chicagoravensfan

Have to disagree a little bit. To be clear, I love Flacco and would be devastated to see him leave. But I don't think the perception around the league is that he's a guy who can take your team over the top. He's never had a Pro Bowl season, he's never had a 4000 yard season and the perception is that he doesn't make the players around him better (and yes, I blame Cam for a lot of that). He's a great fit for the Ravens, and I don't think he will hit the market, but if he did I don't think there would be that feeding frenzy you described.

This, jonboy. Flacco is not going to be worth to anyone else what he's worth to Baltimore, unless next year shows a colossal improvement in performance.

Where in the league would Flacco be a clear and undisputable upgrade at the QB position to the current starter? Off the cuff, I can only think of Arizona, Cleveland, Jacksonville, KC, Miami, Minnesota, Seattle, and St. Louis. You could throw Indy and Washington in there, but since they've got de facto new starters come April 26, I left them off. That represents only 25% of the league, and I don't see any of those teams lining up to pay Flacco substantially more than what the Ravens would.

I'm not anti-Flacco... I'm just not yet convinced that he's worth what he's asking for. You could make a really good argument that, based on last year, Alex Smith's deal could be analogous to what Flacco should get. Both men play on teams that win by great defense more than great offense, and frankly, Smith's stats and win totals from last year compare favorably with Flacco's. You could make an argument that the Ravens faced stiffer competition, but their respective seasons still ended at the same place. I think there would be about as much interest in Flacco the UFA as there was in Alex Smith the UFA here a couple of weeks ago... Smith wound up slinking home from Miami and signing the dotted line.

We'll see...

**redmike34** · 04-07-2012, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by goodandfast

Do you think there would be a feeding frenzy for Matt Ryan if he were to touch free agency?

Joe is clearly better than Matty Ice- for teams interested in winning. IMO, there would be greater demand for Flacco than for Ryan.

I disagree. QBs don't win games, football teams do. Ryan and the Falcons produced 10 wins this year, despite being saddled with a defense in the bottom half of the league. Flacco and the Ravens produced 12 wins with the 3rd best defense. If you traded defenses between the two teams, which team winds up with more wins? There's no way to know, but my opinion would be the Falcons offense/Ravens defense team. And I don't think it would be close.

**The Excellector** · 04-07-2012, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by chicagoravensfan

Have to disagree a little bit. To be clear, I love Flacco and would be devastated to see him leave. But I don't think the perception around the league is that he's a guy who can take your team over the top. He's never had a Pro Bowl season, he's never had a 4000 yard season and the perception is that he doesn't make the players around him better (and yes, I blame Cam for a lot of that). He's a great fit for the Ravens, and I don't think he will hit the market, but if he did I don't think there would be that feeding frenzy you described.

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There is a difference between media perception and what front office executives think about him.

**The Excellector** · 04-07-2012, 05:37 PM

Besides, there doesn't have to be a frenzy. All it takes is one desperate team to drive the price up.

**Benny8444** · 04-07-2012, 05:57 PM

Back to my original question, lets say they get a deal done this year. Will it affect his cap number this year or will he still be playing under his rookie deal and his new contract take affect in 2013? Also, I believe he gets signed over the summer sometime. There will be cuts next year just like 2 years ago to free up space and most likely the cap will be higher also, Reed's cap number will be less if we re sign him as will rice's if we re sign him. Look we just signed webb, lets give oz some time before we panic over the Flacco deal. It will get done, teams do not let franchise QBs go. I would not be surprised though if the Ravens have him play out his contract. Look Matt Ryan has not been signed yet and if he gets signed first that would be the deal Flacco would most likely get depending on if the Falcons over pay him.

**chicagoravensfan** · 04-07-2012, 05:59 PM

Flacco would be an upgrade to a lot of teams. Say he is the #13 starter, he would be an upgrade for 19 teams. But the important thing is he wouldn't be a fit for most of those teams. Lots of teams will want to draft and develop a guy or roll the dice on a hot backup like Hoyer. Teams are only going to pay top dollar if they see Flacco as the missing piece for a playoff/Super Bowl run. I think Alex Smith is a good comparable (though Flacco is clearly better than Smith). Teams would rather have someone unproven with potential than someone's who's demonstrated to be above average but not absolute tops.

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**Corey** · 04-07-2012, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Tbh Rice deserves a long term deal more than Flacco right now. I am obviously a big fan of Flacco, but let him play his year out, and let him show us that he is really "the best QB in the NFL". You know I never hear Rice going around saying he's the best RB in the league, and yet he has probably statistically had a better career so far than Flacco, yes I know Rice said he played out his contract and so he has.

That's only pushing the problem off to a later date. And to be honest knowing the franchise tag number for a QB is 15 million plus, possibly more whenever Brees signs a long term deal with the Saints, it will be a MUCH bigger headache next offseason than it is right now. There is absolutely nothing the Ravens can do if Flacco has 15 million+ cap number to open next season. That will eat whatever cap space we do have right up, IF we can even afford to tag him at all.

**leachisabeast** · 04-07-2012, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by Corey

That's only pushing the problem off to a later date. And to be honest knowing the franchise tag number for a QB is 15 million plus, possibly more whenever Brees signs a long term deal with the Saints, it will be a MUCH bigger headache next offseason than it is right now. There is absolutely nothing the Ravens can do if Flacco has 15 million+ cap number to open next season. That will eat whatever cap space we do have right up, IF we can even afford to tag him at all.

When you do the numbers, there is just no way we can keep both Rice and Flacco on this team after 2012 unless the cap goes up as a lot of people have been speculating (and it's purely speculation).

So if you had to choose between the two it has to be Flacco. If you're talking about RIGHT now Rice probably deserves it, however we need to think of the future and it will break my heart when the day comes that we let Rice go/trade him.

**alienrace** · 04-07-2012, 11:13 PM

Flacco is going to get paid. And paid big. Sanchize got 14.5 mill per year. Flacco isn't getting less.

**BcRaven** · 04-07-2012, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

When you do the numbers, there is just no way we can keep both Rice and Flacco on this team after 2012 unless the cap goes up as a lot of people have been speculating (and it's purely speculation).

So if you had to choose between the two it has to be Flacco. If you're talking about RIGHT now Rice probably deserves it, however we need to think of the future and it will break my heart when the day comes that we let Rice go/trade him.

You may not be taking released veterans into consideration, like in 2011. What if Ed Reed, and his $7 million, are not renewed? IMO the Ravens will do all in their power to keep Flacco and Rice in 2013... Bc

**srobert96** · 04-08-2012, 05:19 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Tbh Rice deserves a long term deal more than Flacco right now. I am obviously a big fan of Flacco, but let him play his year out, and let him show us that he is really "the best QB in the NFL". You know I never hear Rice going around saying he's the best RB in the league, and yet he has probably statistically had a better career so far than Flacco, yes I know Rice said he played out his contract and so he has.

Joe was asked if he thought he was a top 5 qb. He said that as a player you have to consider yourself the best. If someone asked Rice the same question you would get the same answer.

Rice shriveled in the playoffs and Flacco out played Brady.

**pickles** · 04-08-2012, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

When you do the numbers, there is just no way we can keep both Rice and Flacco on this team after 2012 unless the cap goes up as a lot of people have been speculating (and it's purely speculation).

So if you had to choose between the two it has to be Flacco. If you're talking about RIGHT now Rice probably deserves it, however we need to think of the future and it will break my heart when the day comes that we let Rice go/trade him.

I don't think it's quite as dire as all that. I think the cap will go up some next year, and you're not factoring in things like Lewis and Reed's possible retirement. Honestly, I don't see either of them going anywhere for the next half decade.

**JAB1985** · 04-08-2012, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by redmike34

I disagree. QBs don't win games, football teams do. Ryan and the Falcons produced 10 wins this year, despite being saddled with a defense in the bottom half of the league. Flacco and the Ravens produced 12 wins with the 3rd best defense. If you traded defenses between the two teams, which team winds up with more wins? There's no way to know, but my opinion would be the Falcons offense/Ravens defense team. And I don't think it would be close.

Its hard to argue that Flacco hasnt done more with less than Matt Ryan. take defenses away. Offense only theyve put up almost identical numbers offensively and thats saying a lot. He doesnt have near the offensive weapons Ryan has, certainly not since theyve been in the league. that "bottom half of the league" defense also means they're throwing the ball more and getting more situations to pass. Flacco is greater than Matt Ryan and thats not even taking into consideration their playoff or regular season records.

**HoustonRaven** · 04-08-2012, 07:12 AM

Flacco and his agent have not had discussions with the team since the combine .....

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...uting-combine/

Could just be posturing on the part of the team. If the reports are true that he's asking for top 5 QB type money, I wouldn't call him either if I were Ozzie. He just isn't worth that kind of coin (yet).

**Terpsfan82** · 04-08-2012, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Flacco and his agent have not had discussions with the team since the combine .....

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...uting-combine/

Could just be posturing on the part of the team. If the reports are true that he's asking for top 5 QB type money, I wouldn't call him either if I were Ozzie. He just isn't worth that kind of coin (yet).

The thing is, we don't know if he's asking for that kind of money or not. The club is saying Ray Rice is asking for AP type money. If these reports are true there is no way the Ravens can afford both. I'm inclined to believe that Ozzie is posturing.

**leachisabeast** · 04-08-2012, 07:26 AM

I never read into rumors or reports until it's confirmed, too much speculation here.

Btw I do love Flacco, but he isn't a top 5 QB yet, so why pay him like one?

**HoustonRaven** · 04-08-2012, 07:42 AM

And now Aaron Wilson refutes PFT's claims.

Flacco and agent have met with the team twice since the combine.

http://www.carrollcountytimes.com/bl...tml?mode=story

**arnie_uk** · 04-08-2012, 07:48 AM

was webb worth 50mil, heck no, you pay for what you think he will become as much as what he is

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

I never read into rumors or reports until it's confirmed, too much speculation here.

Btw I do love Flacco, but he isn't a top 5 QB yet, so why pay him like one?