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  1. #61
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    Re: Flacco Deal Update...



    Quote Originally Posted by arnie_uk View Post
    was webb worth 50mil, heck no, you pay for what you think he will become as much as what he is
    Webb's career has been on an upward trajectory since he started. He has a higher ceiling.




  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    When you do the numbers, there is just no way we can keep both Rice and Flacco on this team after 2012 unless the cap goes up as a lot of people have been speculating (and it's purely speculation).

    So if you had to choose between the two it has to be Flacco. If you're talking about RIGHT now Rice probably deserves it, however we need to think of the future and it will break my heart when the day comes that we let Rice go/trade him.
    Both Flacco and Rice will be on the team in 2013. Both will likely be under long term deals, but, at worst, Flacco will have a long term deal and Rice will be tagged a 2nd time.
    “Talk's cheap - let’s go play.” - #19, Johnny Unitas

    Follow me on Twitter @ravenssalarycap




  3. #63
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    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    your backing up my point that you pay for what you think a player will become as much as what they are now. He said flacco isnt a top 5 player so isnt worth that money, webb had one good year so isnt worth his money by the same logic. But fact is they are paying for what they think webb will become, and they will do that for flacco as well. He will be overpaid at the time of the contract, but the FO will be thinking it will be fair or even a bargain by the end of the deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    Webb's career has been on an upward trajectory since he started. He has a higher ceiling.




  4. #64
    This is the part I don't like about NFL contracting. Rice's deal was up, so getting him done is the obvious priority. Flacco is still under contract until 2013. He should not be in position to resign over Rice, he should be next.

    All this posturing and having to get something done now is just offseason distraction.




  5. #65

    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by B-more Ravor View Post
    Both Flacco and Rice will be on the team in 2013. Both will likely be under long term deals, but, at worst, Flacco will have a long term deal and Rice will be tagged a 2nd time.
    Not entirely sure about that. The cap isn't expected to be any higher next year and that second tag will be a monster. If Rice want's more than Fosters deal he'll be in a different uni next year. And honestly it's very fair for both sides. Rice isn't AP and he isn't CJ, some would argue even Foster is more of a complete back.

    Luckily next year we don't have aot of FA's. Pollard and Reed are it(unless Flacco's deal doesn't get done). What'll really be interesting is MJD is a FA next year and maybe they see what he brings in a contract and try again with Rice as those two are more similar. I'm excited to see what Allen brings to the table and maybe look for that shifty back in the draft next year, RB by committee again.

    In the end if it's Flacco or Rice there isn't a person with any intelligence thats going to choose Rice.




  6. #66
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    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    ... Btw I do love Flacco, but he isn't a top 5 QB yet, so why pay him like one?
    Circumstances dictate it. If Joe is allowed to become a UFA, you just watch the QB deficient teams line up and throw money at his feet. The guy wins in Baltimore, and is coming into what is perceived as his best years. I like Ray Rice, but the team can survive without him if necessary. Let Flacco walk, and we may have nightmares of Boller keeping us up nights... Bc




  7. #67

    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by BcRaven View Post
    Circumstances dictate it. If Joe is allowed to become a UFA, you just watch the QB deficient teams line up and throw money at his feet. The guy wins in Baltimore, and is coming into what is perceived as his best years. I like Ray Rice, but the team can survive without him if necessary. Let Flacco walk, and we may have nightmares of Boller keeping us up nights... Bc
    10000% agreement.




  8. #68

    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by BcRaven View Post
    Circumstances dictate it. If Joe is allowed to become a UFA, you just watch the QB deficient teams line up and throw money at his feet. The guy wins in Baltimore, and is coming into what is perceived as his best years. I like Ray Rice, but the team can survive without him if necessary. Let Flacco walk, and we may have nightmares of Boller keeping us up nights... Bc
    I just don't see it. Again, no question Flacco has been the QB for a lot of games won by the Ravens... but that happened as a result of not only him.

    Flacco had a QB rating of 80.9 last year, which put him 18th in the league. Admittedly, QB rating isn't the be-all-end-all, but it does serve as a measure of efficiency that does have some correlation to winning games. So... the Ravens were capable of winning 12 games last year with a QB rating of 80.9. How many more games do they win if it's 90? What's a QB rating of 80 worth? What's the record of other teams who had a QB rating of ~80? Newton 84.5 rating/6 wins, Hasselbeck: 82.4/9, Dalton 80.4/9, Jackson 79.2/7, Fitzpatrick 79.1/6, Sanchez 78.2/8... That works out to an average of 7.5 wins, and a standard deviation of 1.37. So the Ravens got more than three standard deviations more wins than other teams with similar QB play.... that's a pretty FAR outlier. The big difference is the team with 12 wins also had the 3rd-ranked scoring defense... IMO.

    I don't think Flacco gets any kind of a mega-deal from anyone else based on his body of work so far. That's why I'd be willing, were I the Ravens front office, to see what 2012 brings. If Flacco improves, great--it may cost more money, but it could also be a good problem to have. If he doesn't... well, it's frankly not that hard to find QBs who can average a rating of 80 for the year.




  9. #69
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    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    IMO, smart money says get flacco signed this year. If we were to win a SB this year his value would certainly be much higher. Right now, even though he is saying he is top 5, the facts and stats say differently. Get his deal done ASAP, and then rice next year.




  10. #70
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    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by JustaslowZ06 View Post
    Not entirely sure about that. The cap isn't expected to be any higher next year and that second tag will be a monster. If Rice want's more than Fosters deal he'll be in a different uni next year. And honestly it's very fair for both sides. Rice isn't AP and he isn't CJ, some would argue even Foster is more of a complete back.

    Luckily next year we don't have aot of FA's. Pollard and Reed are it(unless Flacco's deal doesn't get done). What'll really be interesting is MJD is a FA next year and maybe they see what he brings in a contract and try again with Rice as those two are more similar. I'm excited to see what Allen brings to the table and maybe look for that shifty back in the draft next year, RB by committee again.

    In the end if it's Flacco or Rice there isn't a person with any intelligence thats going to choose Rice.
    Well I think Rice is better than CJ lol, CJ was horrible in 2011. I think Rice is a little better than Foster, because Foster has had the leagues best Oline over the past two seasons. I don't think any RB however deserves anythin near AP or CJ money.




  11. #71
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    Northern Ireland, UK
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    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Well I think Rice is better than CJ lol, CJ was horrible in 2011. I think Rice is a little better than Foster, because Foster has had the leagues best Oline over the past two seasons. I don't think any RB however deserves anythin near AP or CJ money.
    not really fair to say that, at the time of CJs contract. CJ was arguably the best RB in the league, if he kept up the production he would have been worth that contract. I think thats what he meant.




  12. #72
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    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by redmike34 View Post
    I just don't see it. Again, no question Flacco has been the QB for a lot of games won by the Ravens... but that happened as a result of not only him.

    Flacco had a QB rating of 80.9 last year, which put him 18th in the league. Admittedly, QB rating isn't the be-all-end-all, but it does serve as a measure of efficiency that does have some correlation to winning games. So... the Ravens were capable of winning 12 games last year with a QB rating of 80.9. How many more games do they win if it's 90? What's a QB rating of 80 worth? What's the record of other teams who had a QB rating of ~80? Newton 84.5 rating/6 wins, Hasselbeck: 82.4/9, Dalton 80.4/9, Jackson 79.2/7, Fitzpatrick 79.1/6, Sanchez 78.2/8... That works out to an average of 7.5 wins, and a standard deviation of 1.37. So the Ravens got more than three standard deviations more wins than other teams with similar QB play.... that's a pretty FAR outlier. The big difference is the team with 12 wins also had the 3rd-ranked scoring defense... IMO.

    I don't think Flacco gets any kind of a mega-deal from anyone else based on his body of work so far. That's why I'd be willing, were I the Ravens front office, to see what 2012 brings. If Flacco improves, great--it may cost more money, but it could also be a good problem to have. If he doesn't... well, it's frankly not that hard to find QBs who can average a rating of 80 for the year.
    This.




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