Flacco Deal Update...

**wickedsolo** · 04-09-2012, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by Terpsfan82

In one game he led a pedestrian offensive performance, being the beneficiary of two gift wrapped TD's and in the second game he had a decent game against one of the worse defenses in the league. And lost.

Wow.

Gift wrapped TD's?

**The Excellector** · 04-09-2012, 06:52 AM

Without question, I am with BcRaven on this one.

The fault in this discussion is that we are comparing Flacco to other established top quality QBs, not what they were at the same stage in their career as Flacco.

Flacco is only entering his prime. That is worth a lot, especially on the FA market.

At this same point in their careers:

Brady- Spygate (Although he still became a great QB), but did have three SB victories.
Rodgers- 1 starting season after sitting behind a future hall of famer for three years, along with a one and done in the playoffs. He played a great game, so the loss wasn't completely his fault, but he missed a wide open Greg Jennings for the game winner in OT.
Brees- Practically run out of San Diego with what everyone thought was a bum shoulder. The only team willing to take a chance on him was the lowly Saints, who were still the 'Aints' at the time.
Manning (Peyton)- Two losing seasons and two winning seasons. 0-2 in the playoffs, despite some serious offensive weaponry.
Rivers- Right around what Flacco has done, with a one less playoff victory or so.
Ben- 1 SB ring
Eli- Had just won the SB his fourth year, but was heavily criticized up to that point.

Now, take a look at where they were and tell me why you don't think Flacco can get to where they are now?

The reality is that if Lee Evans catches that pass, the perception of Flacco is much different. That's not Flacco's fault and front office executives aren't just going to skim over that reality if he hits FA. He has already proven that he can make the throw.

Get him some better WRs and open up the offense a little more, and he'll need less of the rush offense, although they should never abandon it the way that NE and GB have.

It hasn't worked here, because for three of his four years, they've been sending possession WRs deep down the field. Torrey Smith is the first legitimate WR to fit the system. Add Stephen Hill to that and you will see Flacco do some things, even with Cam there.

**The Excellector** · 04-09-2012, 06:57 AM

As for Ray Rice, his playoff performances haven't been any better than Flacco's playoff performances. The only game where Rice really broke out was against New England in 2009. Otherwise, his playoff games haven't been anywhere near great. So, why does Rice deserve a contract more? They leaned on Rice, because they had a better rush offense than WRs and now everyone can see that. That's not Flacco's fault and when teams shut Rice down in the playoffs, he's stepped up. His WRs have let him down three years straight. The only reason we don't talk about the Indianapolis game is, because Joe did throw two Ints. He was clearly pressing and frustrated. He even got into it with Cam on the sideline. WRs were dropping passes all over the place in that game too, and on 3rd-4th down no less.

**wickedsolo** · 04-09-2012, 07:22 AM

Let Flacco be Flacco.

He's a damn good QB and is a major reason why this team is headed in the direction that it's headed. Give him more weapons and get Cam to open up the offense and then just sit back and watch it roll.

**ActualSpamBot** · 04-09-2012, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by Terpsfan82

In one game he led a pedestrian offensive performance, being the beneficiary of two gift wrapped TD's and in the second game he had a decent game against one of the worse defenses in the league. And lost.

http://legacy-cdn.smosh.com/smosh-pi...ters-skate.gif

**wickedsolo** · 04-09-2012, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot

http://legacy-cdn.smosh.com/smosh-pi...ters-skate.gif

Haha, that's kind of cool.

**leachisabeast** · 04-09-2012, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

If you draft Stephen Hill and put him on the opposite side of Torrey Smith, he certainly can. Besides, the Ravens will have a solid rush offense, whether Rice is there or not.

That is so far from the truth. People just think running backs grow on trees. I honestly don't think Anthony Allen is ready to be an every down back like Rice is. You would have to draft a RB in the first 3 rounds to have a solid rushing offense, and the Oline would have to improve. What I do think is Bernard Pierce or Turbin could be drafted and either could be our new starting RB in 2013, while we acquire possibly a first round pick from trading Rice if we tag him again.

**JAB1985** · 04-09-2012, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

That is so far from the truth. People just think running backs grow on trees. I honestly don't think Anthony Allen is ready to be an every down back like Rice is. You would have to draft a RB in the first 3 rounds to have a solid rushing offense, and the Oline would have to improve. What I do think is Bernard Pierce or Turbin could be drafted and either could be our new starting RB in 2013, while we acquire possibly a first round pick from trading Rice if we tag him again.

WR OL RB LB i think will be some form of our first 4 picks and in that order, imo. unless rice signs before the draft theres no reason not to draft a RB.

**TheFlacco** · 04-09-2012, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by JAB1985

WR OL RB LB i think will be some form of our first 4 picks and in that order, imo. unless rice signs before the draft theres no reason not to draft a RB.

We've gotta draft a safety this year as well, and early IMO

**JAB1985** · 04-09-2012, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by TheFlacco

We've gotta draft a safety this year as well, and early IMO

I think we do, but in the 5th or beyond. i think besides Reed weve only drafted Zibi before the 5th but i may be wrong on that. we have a history of finding workable safeties later or even UDFA.

**wickedsolo** · 04-09-2012, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by TheFlacco

We've gotta draft a safety this year as well, and early IMO

Why early? Pollard is young and probably can be re-signed easily. Keep in mind, this is his 3rd team in 5 years...there isn't a major demand for Pollard. He likes Baltimore, he's not very good in coverage (i.e. he isn't a threat to pick off a bunch of passes) so keeping Pollard, IMO, won't be a problem.

FS could be an issue, but there is reason to think that they can find value for FS later on in the draft and have them sit/watch Ed Reed. Plus, if Ed doesn't retire after this season he could be given the franchise tag next year OR do what they did with Ray Lewis and allow him to test the market, realize he's not going to get a massive pay day at 35/36 years old, and re-sign with Baltimore for a year or two.

Obviously, if Mark Barron is there in round 1 I think he could verywell be the pick. If Harrison Smith is there in the 2nd round I think he could be the pick. However, there is value after those two guys at the safety position.

Markelle Martin, Aaron Henry, Tavon Wilson, Brandon Taylor, Trumaine Johnson, Phillip Thomas, Neiko Thorpe, Blake Gideon, Donnie Fletcher, Jamell Fleming, DeQuan Menzie, D'Anton Lynn, Omar Bolden, & Robert Blanton.

Any of those guys (some are corners who prob should move to FS) will be around.

**Terpsfan82** · 04-09-2012, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Wow.

Gift wrapped TD's?

Yes. You remember? The special teams gaffe that gave the Ravens the ball in the Red Zone, not to mention the multiple interceptions by the defense.

**wickedsolo** · 04-09-2012, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by Terpsfan82

Yes. You remember? The special teams gaffe that gave the Ravens the ball in the Red Zone, not to mention the multiple interceptions by the defense.

Whatever you say.

**The Excellector** · 04-09-2012, 09:26 AM

When you talk about the QBs that Flacco is compared to, Flacco has done better than the vast majority of them, at this stage in his career, compared to them at the same stage. Along with that, the vast majority of them now have better WRs/TEs than Flacco.

When Brady's WRs let him down in the AFC Championship Game against Indianapolis, they traded for Randy Moss. Then, they brought in the two young TEs and have now brought in Brandon Lloyd. San Diego already had Gates in place when Rivers became the starter, but also added Vincent Jackson. Green Bay had Driver and Jennings in place.

The Ravens have started that process with Torrey Smith and Dennis Pitta. Joe could use another outside piece. They have plenty of slot candidates as it is.

**GOTA** · 04-09-2012, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

When you talk about the QBs that Flacco is compared to, Flacco has done better than the vast majority of them, at this stage in his career, compared to them at the same stage. Along with that, the vast majority of them now have better WRs/TEs than Flacco.

When Brady's WRs let him down in the AFC Championship Game against Indianapolis, they traded for Randy Moss. Then, they brought in the two young TEs and have now brought in Brandon Lloyd. San Diego already had Gates in place when Rivers became the starter, but also added Vincent Jackson. Green Bay had Driver and Jennings in place.

The Ravens have started that process with Torrey Smith and Dennis Pitta. Joe could use another outside piece. They have plenty of slot candidates as it is.

They also traded for and spent a lot of money on Boldin.

**The Excellector** · 04-09-2012, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

They also traded for and spent a lot of money on Boldin.

True. So, that's not to say that they have not tried, I will admit. He just didn't represent the best piece, as we saw. Now, if you can get a Kendall Wright or a Stephen Hill to put on the outside, you could get better production from Boldin in the slot where he won't be going so far down field. The AFC Championship Game gave us a glimpse of what the Ravens really want to do with their pass offense and how they want to fit Boldin into that equation.

**bmorecareful** · 04-09-2012, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by Terpsfan82

In one game he led a pedestrian offensive performance, being the beneficiary of two gift wrapped TD's and in the second game he had a decent game against one of the worse defenses in the league. And lost.

This quote needs to be remembered as very telling of where your opinions lie in regards to Flacco. You are one of many posters here who claim to be neutral in his respect and decry other posters for being "pro-Flacco" and ignoring what you call "facts," but you can't keep your own incorrigible bias from sneaking out.

It is absolutely ludicrous to say Flacco had two "gift wrapped TDs." How in the world can you make a statement like that on one hand and on the other hand claim neutrality? Only someone who was profoundly biased against Flacco could say something like that.

Even if Flacco was the beneficiary of good defensive play against Houston, he was under siege the entire game with an OL who couldn't block anyone and a RB who couldn't get 3 yards if his life depended on it. The TD to Boldin in particular was a thing of beauty made from under pressure. Nothing is "gift wrapped" in this league.

Of course, I suppose it can't be mentioned how, by your logic, 5 of Rice's 12 rushing TDs came as a result of long passing plays that were downed inside the 10 yard line or by DPI in the EZ? Those would be "gift wrapped" by your logic, but that doesn't "fit the narrative," does it?

I thought the TEAM won and lost games? Why, then, are you attributing the loss to Flacco? I know why: because it suits your argument at the moment. Flacco should receive blame for the loss, but not credit for the wins.

Is it too much to ask for these rabid haters to stay consistent within their own arguments?

**GOTA** · 04-09-2012, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

True. So, that's not to say that they have not tried, I will admit. He just didn't represent the best piece, as we saw. Now, if you can get a Kendall Wright or a Stephen Hill to put on the outside, you could get better production from Boldin in the slot where he won't be going so far down field. The AFC Championship Game gave us a glimpse of what the Ravens really want to do with their pass offense and how they want to fit Boldin into that equation.

Wright would help a lot. That guy looks like the second coming of Steve Smith. Hill though is going to take a lot of time. I don't see Hill being productive at the same time that Boldin is still here. I do think that there are some decent options that might be around in round 2 but I'm not sure if there is anyone who will make an immediate impact.

It's tough because I agree with you that they do need another WR and signing vets really hasn't worked. Let's hope they hit on that position 2 years in a row. Joe needs more options in the passing game.

**The Excellector** · 04-09-2012, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Wright would help a lot. That guy looks like the second coming of Steve Smith. Hill though is going to take a lot of time. I don't see Hill being productive at the same time that Boldin is still here. I do think that there are some decent options that might be around in round 2 but I'm not sure if there is anyone who will make an immediate impact.

It's tough because I agree with you that they do need another WR and signing vets really hasn't worked. Let's hope they hit on that position 2 years in a row. Joe needs more options in the passing game.

At least, it is becoming clearer now. The team gave Ed Dickson every opportunity to take hold of a starting position. That took away from the time that Pitta saw the field. I would not expect the same sort of split this year, seeing the way that Joe and Pitta have connected. Torrey just needs to continue to develop. Boldin is more effective in the slot.

I agree with what you said about Hill too. I just figured that, for what he was asked to do at Georgia Tech, a transition to the Ravens offense wouldn't be as challenging as to New England's offense, for example, although there will still be a challenge. The two things he was asked to do at Georgia Tech were to run block and go deep, two of the main things any WR would have to do here to be successful.

Wright would probably be the closest thing to 'Pro-Ready vertical threat' out there. When I think of him and Chris Givens from Wake Forest, to a lesser extent, I think of Steve Smith and Santana Moss.

The good thing about if the Ravens do take Hill is that Torrey will likely draw the double coverage, if not the top CB alone. Hill should see some opportunities. We really didn't think that Torrey would perform well so quickly either. So, as you said, here's to the Ravens hitting on a WR back to back years.

**wickedsolo** · 04-09-2012, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

This quote needs to be remembered as very telling of where your opinions lie in regards to Flacco. You are one of many posters here who claim to be neutral in his respect and decry other posters for being "pro-Flacco" and ignoring what you call "facts," but you can't keep your own incorrigible bias from sneaking out.

It is absolutely ludicrous to say Flacco had two "gift wrapped TDs." How in the world can you make a statement like that on one hand and on the other hand claim neutrality? Only someone who was profoundly biased against Flacco could say something like that.

Even if Flacco was the beneficiary of good defensive play against Houston, he was under siege the entire game with an OL who couldn't block anyone and a RB who couldn't get 3 yards if his life depended on it. The TD to Boldin in particular was a thing of beauty made from under pressure. Nothing is "gift wrapped" in this league.

Of course, I suppose it can't be mentioned how, by your logic, 5 of Rice's 12 rushing TDs came as a result of long passing plays that were downed inside the 10 yard line or by DPI in the EZ? Those would be "gift wrapped" by your logic, but that doesn't "fit the narrative," does it?

I thought the TEAM won and lost games? Why, then, are you attributing the loss to Flacco? I know why: because it suits your argument at the moment. Flacco should receive blame for the loss, but not credit for the wins.

Is it too much to ask for these rabid haters to stay consistent within their own arguments?

Excellent post.