This really erked me this weekend...

**wickedsolo** · 04-08-2012, 06:42 PM

My wife and I traveled over to the Eastern Shore to visit my Mom for Easter and while over there I noticed that the guy who used to live across the street was no longer there and his house was in foreclosure. I asked my Mom what was going on there, because he has a landscaping company and mowed her yard, etc. She told me that this dude just got tired of having a mortgage. He wasn't upside down or anything. He just didn't want to pay his mortgage anymore, so he moved out, stripped the house of the nice crown molding trim, copper, appliances, etc.

Last week he came over to do some work for my Mom and he was driving a brand new $60,000 full size truck and was gloating about the fact that because he didn't have to pay his mortgage anymore he could get a new truck.

He's a typical "local" in some of those towns on the Eastern Shore that are big fish in little ponds. Grew up there, never left, knows everyone, etc.

I think that's absolutely disgusting. Makes me sick that there are honest and hardworking folks who can't get a mortgage to buy a house and there are shit heads like this guy.

**Galen Sevinne** · 04-08-2012, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

My wife and I traveled over to the Eastern Shore to visit my Mom for Easter and while over there I noticed that the guy who used to live across the street was no longer there and his house was in foreclosure. I asked my Mom what was going on there, because he has a landscaping company and mowed her yard, etc. She told me that this dude just got tired of having a mortgage. He wasn't upside down or anything. He just didn't want to pay his mortgage anymore, so he moved out, stripped the house of the nice crown molding trim, copper, appliances, etc.

Last week he came over to do some work for my Mom and he was driving a brand new $60,000 full size truck and was gloating about the fact that because he didn't have to pay his mortgage anymore he could get a new truck.

He's a typical "local" in some of those towns on the Eastern Shore that are big fish in little ponds. Grew up there, never left, knows everyone, etc.

I think that's absolutely disgusting. Makes me sick that there are honest and hardworking folks who can't get a mortgage to buy a house and there are shit heads like this guy.

He is the perfect example why the government needs to be involved in individual activities that affect other people. Now your mom's property will lose value at least temporarily while everyone living nearby this freeloader absorbs his irresponsibility. We had a guy buy in our neighborhood right across the street from us who could afford his mortgage for about 6 months and then he rented the house for several years. Finally someone bought his house and has brought it back to community standards. Fortunately, we weren't looking to sell during those years so it didn't impact us.

There are areas that need strict regulation so the repsonsible folks aren't absorbing the irresponsible folks risk. Health care via mandate is a perfect example as well as how one qualifies to mortgage a home.

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**wickedsolo** · 04-09-2012, 06:01 AM

I always figured that if you were foreclosing on a house, you had to prove you couldn't afford it anymore and essentially declare bankruptcy or close to it.

Seems to me that considering a mortgage is a contract between a lender and yourself, if you DONT pay it because you don't feel like it the lender should be able to file a lawsuit against you for breach of contract.

**AirFlacco** · 04-09-2012, 06:14 AM

I hear copper is a big thing. Thieves are ripping them off of houses
and breaking inside to get them. Junkyards are paying a lot for them.

New truck? I'd hate to see his credit report.

**wickedsolo** · 04-09-2012, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by AirFlacco

I hear copper is a big thing. Thieves are ripping them off of houses
and breaking inside to get them. Junkyards are paying a lot for them.

New truck? I'd hate to see his credit report.

When I was at my remote duty station a few years ago there were a group of guys who'd drive around the area and dig up the copper electrical wire, cut sections out of it out (cutting off electricity to our base and other areas) and then sell it.

Regarding his new truck, his credit report isn't the point...how is it that someone can afford to continue their mortgage...choose to NOT pay it because he just didn't "feel" like it...and then go out a few weeks later and finance a brand new truck?

How the hell does that work?

**NCRAVEN** · 04-09-2012, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne

He is the perfect example why the government needs to be involved in individual activities that affect other people.

Yes the Government needs to make laws and get involved in each individuals life because the actions of a select few idiots.

**NCRAVEN** · 04-09-2012, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I always figured that if you were foreclosing on a house, you had to prove you couldn't afford it anymore and essentially declare bankruptcy or close to it.

Seems to me that considering a mortgage is a contract between a lender and yourself, if you DONT pay it because you don't feel like it the lender should be able to file a lawsuit against you for breach of contract.

I believe the contract is relatively simple in that as far as if you don't pay the bank owns it. I am almost certain if the bank takes the house back, sells and it and doesn't pay off the loan they come after you for the rest or at least it's listed as a collection.

**wickedsolo** · 04-09-2012, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

I believe the contract is relatively simple in that as far as if you don't pay the bank owns it. I am almost certain if the bank takes the house back, sells and it and doesn't pay off the loan they come after you for the rest or at least it's listed as a collection.

Maybe, but it still seems pretty crappy that this guy has no financial hardships at all and just decides to split because he doesn't want the house anymore. After stripping the house of the trim work, some hardwood from the flooring, copper, appliances, fixtures, etc, the house isn't anywhere near the value that it should or could be.

I don't necessarily feel that the government should have a hand in this, but I do think that if there are guys like this (because I can't honestly think that he is the ONLY one to have done this during the housing crisis) then the banks should go after them because they're fucking the system purposely.

I mean, I've JUST been able to get a new car because of my student loans have weighed me down for so many years.

It's just incredible to me that there are guys like this who are more than willing to add to an already jacked up system and continue to add to the mess for everyone else to clean up.

No offense to a lot of the good people on the Eastern Shore, but there is a significant amount of this kind of mentality over there and I can't stand it. Couldn't wait to leave there and am glad I don't ever have to go back.

**NCRAVEN** · 04-09-2012, 08:16 AM

I don't disagree it's crappy. The guy is a jackass, no doubt.

I think the banks should modify their contracts if they are unhappy with the current outcomes. THat would seem to be the most logical and easiest fix.

Question what part of the Eastern Shore are you from?

**wickedsolo** · 04-09-2012, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

I don't disagree it's crappy. The guy is a jackass, no doubt.

I think the banks should modify their contracts if they are unhappy with the current outcomes. THat would seem to be the most logical and easiest fix.

Question what part of the Eastern Shore are you from?

I'm from Baltimore, but my folks moved down to Ocean City when I was in middle school, so I went to middle school and high school down there, but I still spent most summers up in Baltimore at my grandparents house. I didn't really enjoy summers down in OC until I was old enough to drive. After I left for college my mom moved to Easton and now she's finally had enough of the Eastern Shore and is moving over towards the Baltimore area.

**JStruds** · 04-09-2012, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

When I was at my remote duty station a few years ago there were a group of guys who'd drive around the area and dig up the copper electrical wire, cut sections out of it out (cutting off electricity to our base and other areas) and then sell it.

Regarding his new truck, his credit report isn't the point...how is it that someone can afford to continue their mortgage...choose to NOT pay it because he just didn't "feel" like it...and then go out a few weeks later and finance a brand new truck?

How the hell does that work?

Maybe he got the truck before the bad credit started to kick in. If there's any justice, once it does kick in, it will prevent him from gaining loans for personal use and for his business.

**wickedsolo** · 04-09-2012, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by JStruds

Maybe he got the truck before the bad credit started to kick in. If there's any justice, once it does kick in, it will prevent him from gaining loans for personal use and for his business.

His brother or something works in the finance department of the dealership over there I believe, so that's how he was able to get the truck.

Still, you're probably right. It's unlikely that the foreclosure would show up on his credit report for at least another quarter.

**AirFlacco** · 04-09-2012, 11:50 AM

When I mentioned credit report I ment for abandoning his house not the truck. He might have paid cash for the truck with all that copper he stole plus the other stuff.

My friend gets mortgages for people. The house across the street has been empty for a year now. The guy walked out of there too. I haven't seen the inside so I don't know if he stripped it like the guy mentioned above. I'm thinking about buying it.

My friend told me not too. If he strippled it I will pay over $100,000 to fix it up and even if he didn't it will cost me $20,000. I can rent it for $1800 pr mo but she advised me not to.

Anyway, Deb said that the bank would have worked with him for a year and let him stay in it rather than leave it empty. The bank probably has $100 houses like that.

She's right. Over 1M homes are foreclosed. In Florida 20% of all homes are empty.

That's a sign to look at to see if the economy is recovering.

I actually agree with Galen about controls or something to penalize these people
that strip houses like that. Hundreds do it so a guy like me buying has to fix it
up.

The guy in the OP just messed up his credit report for the rest of his life. He'll
never get another house or loan again. It's easier declaring bankruptcy. That
only lasts 7 years and if his credit cards take a look at that report as most of them do periodically,
they will cancel all of them. He won't have any credit whatsover. That's how the system works.

I might have a nice truck but when he needs a new one in 5 or 6 years he won't be able to get it
unless he pays cash. He will have no credit. He screwed himself big time.

Abandoning a house stays with you the rest of your life.

**wickedsolo** · 04-09-2012, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by AirFlacco

When I mentioned credit report I ment for abandoning his house not the truck. He might have paid cash for the truck with all that copper he stole plus the other stuff.

My friend gets mortgages for people. The house across the street has been empty for a year now. The guy walked out of there too. I haven't seen the inside so I don't know if he stripped it like the guy mentioned above. I'm thinking about buying it.

My friend told me not too. If he strippled it I will pay over $100,000 to fix it up and even if he didn't it will cost me $20,000. I can rent it for $1800 pr mo but she advised me not to.

Anyway, Deb said that the bank would have worked with him for a year and let him stay in it rather than leave it empty. The bank probably has $100 houses like that.

She's right. Over 1M homes are foreclosed. In Florida 20% of all homes are empty.

That's a sign to look at to see if the economy is recovering.

I actually agree with Galen about controls or something to penalize these people
that strip houses like that. Hundreds do it so a guy like me buying has to fix it
up.

The guy in the OP just messed up his credit report for the rest of his life. He'll
never get another house or loan again. It's easier declaring bankruptcy. That
only lasts 7 years and if his credit cards take a look at that report as most of them do periodically,
they will cancel all of them. He won't have any credit whatsover. That's how the system works.

I might have a nice truck but when he needs a new one in 5 or 6 years he won't be able to get it
unless he pays cash. He will have no credit. He screwed himself big time.

Abandoning a house stays with you the rest of your life.

I definitely think that a lot of the housing crisis is our fault anyway because far too many folks tried to "keep up with the Jones" and built the massive houses that they really couldn't afford. Banks are ultimately to blame for this for giving out these loans to people that they knew couldn't afford them [has anyone read anything on that conspiracy? Interesting stuff.], but I think more Americans should be pointing the finger at themselves for just being dumb. I know in the areas my wife and I are looking in Maryland, most of the foreclosed houses and short sale houses are these massive new construction houses.

**NCRAVEN** · 04-09-2012, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I definitely think that a lot of the housing crisis is our fault anyway because far too many folks tried to "keep up with the Jones" and built the massive houses that they really couldn't afford. Banks are ultimately to blame for this for giving out these loans to people that they knew couldn't afford them [has anyone read anything on that conspiracy? Interesting stuff.], but I think more Americans should be pointing the finger at themselves for just being dumb. I know in the areas my wife and I are looking in Maryland, most of the foreclosed houses and short sale houses are these massive new construction houses.

Here is a book that talks about that.
http://www.amazon.com/Reckless-Endan.../dp/0805091203

I've got to disagree with placing the ultimate blame on the banks. They are part of the problem (as the book lays out) they gave out the loans I think more of the blame goes to the people who took them out. I mean if I took out a loan and couldn't afford to pay it back, I am not blaming anyone but me for that.

**HoustonRaven** · 04-09-2012, 04:11 PM

Can't really blame the banks.

They were being forced to lend to lesser qualified applicants least face the wrath of the federal government, thanks to the Community Reinvestment Act. Up until 2002, the feds were going after banks and fining them under the provisions of the act if they did not pass a certain percentages of loans to lesser qualified applicants. As a result, in 2002, that practice had stopped but by then it was too late.

Having bought three homes now, I can say with certainty nobody held a gun to my head, forcing me to sign the paperwork and taking on mortgage debt. Totally agree with NC. You have only yourself to blame if you have debt.

**wickedsolo** · 04-09-2012, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Here is a book that talks about that.
http://www.amazon.com/Reckless-Endan.../dp/0805091203

I've got to disagree with placing the ultimate blame on the banks. They are part of the problem (as the book lays out) they gave out the loans I think more of the blame goes to the people who took them out. I mean if I took out a loan and couldn't afford to pay it back, I am not blaming anyone but me for that.

I don't disagree that the people who took these loans out are at fault.

However, I think the banks are just as much to blame for allowing these people to think that they could afford these ridiculous loans. The banks KNEW they couldn't afford it and didn't advise them on reconsidering doing it. If you took the loan out and couldn't afford to pay it back, then yea, you're at fault, but if the bank could have advised you to reconsider because they were able to deduct that you couldn't afford the loan, then who's fault is it really?

If I were to go to a bank and try to get a loan for something and the bank didn't think I could pay it back, they'd send me on my merry way to some other place. The banks are and were partly responsible for the situation that we're in right now. The more I read about it, the more it seems like a total scam. Banks give out billions in loans they know cannot be paid back, government writes a check to banks for amount owed and still gets to sell the houses.

IMO, it's like 60/40 (60% of the blame being on the people/40% on the banks).

**wickedsolo** · 04-09-2012, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Can't really blame the banks.

They were being forced to lend to lesser qualified applicants least face the wrath of the federal government, thanks to the Community Reinvestment Act. Up until 2002, the feds were going after banks and fining them under the provisions of the act if they did not pass a certain percentages of loans to lesser qualified applicants. As a result, in 2002, that practice had stopped but by then it was too late.

Having bought three homes now, I can say with certainty nobody held a gun to my head, forcing me to sign the paperwork and taking on mortgage debt. Totally agree with NC. You have only yourself to blame if you have debt.

Agreed, but if you go to a car dealership and want to buy a BMW and only make $25,000 a year then the dealership is going to tell you that they're sorry, but they can't sell you a BMW because you'd not be able to afford the payments.

All I'm saying is that the banks took advantage of the situation. It's not all their fault, but they're definitely at fault in this whole mess.

**HoustonRaven** · 04-09-2012, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Agreed, but if you go to a car dealership and want to buy a BMW and only make $25,000 a year then the dealership is going to tell you that they're sorry, but they can't sell you a BMW because you'd not be able to afford the payments.

All I'm saying is that the banks took advantage of the situation. It's not all their fault, but they're definitely at fault in this whole mess.

Using your analogy, there isn't an act of congress forcing the BMW dealership to sell that car to the lesser qualified person and if the BMW dealer failed to do so, they'd face very stiff fines.

There was for mortgages. For a long time.

And I fail to see how the banks were taking advantage of this. They make their money when people pay back their mortgages, not when people default. It's in their best interest ensure the folks getting mortgages do so under good terms with an ability to pay them back.

These days, there are very few banks even funding mortgages -- BofA, Wells Fargo, Fanny Mae, Freddy Mac -- they were the ones being forced to lend to people who were not qualified.

**wickedsolo** · 04-09-2012, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Using your analogy, there isn't an act of congress forcing the BMW dealership to sell that car to the lesser qualified person and if the BMW dealer failed to do so, they'd face very stiff fines.

There was for mortgages. For a long time.

And I fail to see how the banks were taking advantage of this. They make their money when people pay back their mortgages, not when people default. It's in their best interest ensure the folks getting mortgages do so under good terms with an ability to pay them back.

These days, there are very few banks even funding mortgages -- BofA, Wells Fargo, Fanny Mae, Freddy Mac -- they were the ones being forced to lend to people who were not qualified.

The banks were going to get their money regardless. Either the people who took the mortgage were going to pay it back or the government would bail them out, which they did.

What was the point of forcing banks to give out mortgages to folks who couldn't afford it? Who's bright idea was that bill?