Dumped from 24x7 Ravens forum on April 25th

[Tucker: M&T Sec 527]

Like his football fan comments but FDR? No freakin' way

Yeah: Hoover had it all under control
And Wilkie would've stopped Japan and Germany in their tracks....

As long as we're OT, tell me who besides Abe Lincoln even comes close. Certainly no one in the 20th or 21st centuries.

[GOTA]

Yeah: Hoover had it all under control
And Wilkie would've stopped Japan and Germany in their tracks....

As long as we're OT, tell me who besides Abe Lincoln even comes close. Certainly no one in the 20th or 21st centuries.

Since we're talking the best Abe Lincoln is exactly who should be considered the best ever. I would pick Truman if we were just talking about 20th and 21st centuries.

[NCRAVEN]

Since we're talking the best Abe Lincoln is exactly who should be considered the best ever. I would pick Truman if we were just talking about 20th and 21st centuries.

How can Washington not be considered the best if not close to a tie?

[Tucker: M&T Sec 527]

Since we're talking the best Abe Lincoln is exactly who should be considered the best ever. I would pick Truman if we were just talking about 20th and 21st centuries.

Truman did OK as an accidental president. But his Doctrine started us on 4 decades of spent blood and treasure in containment policy, much of that a true cluster f**k (e.g. Vietnam) as bad or worse than the welfare state begun by FDR (which I've found is why most people who dislike FDR dislike him). We'll leave it at Honest Abe and drop the subject. No worries.

[seraph]

Since we're talking the best Abe Lincoln is exactly who should be considered the best ever. I would pick Truman if we were just talking about 20th and 21st centuries.

Um no Lincoln was a tyrant just like Qin Shi Huang.

[Mista T]

Discuss Politics here, not on main Ravens forum.

btw: the greatest US President in history was Ronald Reagan: Prosperity and brought down the Iron Curtain.

Washington did little as a president, Lincoln was a tyrant.

[AirFlacco]

T - How could Reagan be the best president when he raised taxes 13 times. After

giving the biggest tax cuts in history in his first term, a year later he asked for 1/3 it back in tax hikes - 4 altogether and 9 more in his second term. He even
said he had to compromise. The truth is, no peace time pres raised taxes more than Reagan. We crucified Bush for raising taxes but didn't do a damn thing to Reagan.

Worst of all, in true socialist form, he created the most monstrous gov't agency since the IRS - the PPT. That was after the 87 crash which was the worse since
29 til the 08 crash. That's the agency that prints money every day and no one knows exactly how much, no one. They send it to an off shore account in the
Cayman Islands and then it goes to Goldman Sachs to buy up all the indexes. It
also sets prices, particulary gold to keep the dollar from crashing.

It goes to Sachs because it's CEO was Clinton's financial czar that expanded the PPT to include price fixing. Most people in the industry don't even know it exists.
I know you didn't know. Not even my broker knows about it. We had a guy posting in here named Stealth Raven who is an investment banker explaining it and he wanted to know how I knew all about it. I read John Crudele.

After it's creation in 88 it worked every year til the 08 crash when I lost my money but it's back up to 13,000 points. Wall Street can thank Reagan the
Socialist for creating the PPT - all that after promising to streamline the gov't.
In fairness to him, he did try to do away with the Federal Reserve Bank by invoking the executive order that Kennedy signed to disband it. Disbanding it allows the gov't to control
the printing of money, not the Federal REserves which is a private bank with 12 branches
and was put in by Pres Wilson after the Rothchilds of England financed his campaign.
Afterward, he said he betrayed his country. Kennedy brought in $4B after invoking the
order and was killed 5 months after signing it. The first thing LBJ did was recall the $$.

__________________________________
On that day President John F. Kennedy signed Executive Order No. 11110 that returned to the US government the power to issue currency, without going through the Federal Reserve. Kennedy's order gave the Treasury the power “to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars [photo 3rd on left] in the Treasury.” This meant that for every ounce of silver in the US Treasury's vault, the government could introduce new money into circulation. In all, Kennedy brought nearly $4.3 billion in US notes into circulation.
Five short months later, President Kennedy was assassinated, and upon assuming office, newly sworn in President Lyndon Johnson recalled all of the US notes Kennedy had put into circulation and making President Ronald Reagan the next to challenge the power of the Federal Reserve, but which abruptly ended with his near assassination on March 30, 1981 by the hand of the crazed son of former CIA Director, and then Vice President, George Bush’s closest friends and oil business backer John Hinckley Sr.
President Reagan had pitted himself against the Federal Reserve over their refusal to lower the crushing interests rates they had imposed upon the American people during the US recession of 1980-1982 which was their greatest since the Great Depression, but after his near death quietly signed into law on September 13, 1982, H.R.6128 which became Public Law No: 97-258 that was written on the behalf of the Federal Reserve by little known US Congressman Peter Wallace Rodino Jr., with no co-sponsors, and made it illegal for any future American President to print on money for the American people.
_____________________________


And guess who wants to disband it now - OBY himself. He wants to print even more $$
so he can give buyouts to college students. Maybe this Sec Service scandal and their
incompetence and unprofessionalism of these agents is no accident? Hmmmmmm


Like JFK who
was killed 5 months after signing the order, Reagan was shot and almost killed after trying to invoke it. Maybe that's why he caved into creating the PPT.


http://www.pinnacledigest.com/blog/r...-reagan-legacy

Wash didn't to anything? He was the first President, a job no one ever had so he was in unchartered waters and did quite well. He kept the country out of war that was raging in Europe by designing the Jay Treaty which was signed by the British. It delayed the War of 1812 by 20 years.

The British also abandoned their forts along the Great Lakes and traded with us which enabled Wash to pay off some of our war debts. Andy Jackson paid off the rest of it selling lands. It was the last time the US was debt free.

He was offered a salary of $25,000 which was a fortune back then and lived on
his own income from his farm. He could have been a dictator by taking over the
gov't. He was a federalist and signed the bill for the first Central bank and
put down the Whisky Rebellion marching on his former troops but nobody is
perfect.

His last act via his will upon death was freeing his slaves. Wash said the country
wouldn't last a hundred years because of slavery. He was off by 10.

He's often listed in the top 3 as best presidents in many polls.

Lincoln was a tyrant but without it there would be two Americas. We wouldn't have defeated the Germans and possibly the Japs.

[NCRAVEN]

Trap, Reagan does have his flaws but he also has his successes. Largest and longest period of economic growth, some 21 million new jobs were created, (as T mentioned) the fall of the iron curtain, which he didn't cause but many would argue definitely assisted with. Some of those tax increase were because he was promised spending cuts in exchange, which never came. The main thing I liked about Reagan is he understood and articulated American exceptionalism and inspired Americans to be great. All that sad, he is towards the top of my list but I still have to put Washington #1

One of my favorite things about Washington is he stepped down from the Office. Actually he did it twice. After the war the Continental Congress offered to make him King. This was before the Constitution was written. He turned them down. He also resigned his commission. The original Washington Monument is a statue of him doing just that.

The second time was after his second term in office. He was tired and done with politics so he didn’t run again. Several of the “Founding Fathers” begged him to run a third time, they worried the country would fall apart without him. He died about a year later.

Which you could possibly count as a third way he saved the country. Think about it, if he ran a third time, he would have won. If he won he would have died in office. If he died in office it would have set the example for presidents to stay in power until they die

[AirFlacco]

Oh yea, Reagan had his successes to be sure and don't forget, he wanted to run
for a 3rd term. Plenty of conservatives wanted him too. There were DEMs that wanted Clinton to run. He would have beaten W like his dad too.

I just wanted to point out his
socialism to Ted. Most conservatives don't even know he raised taxes 13 times.
Eric Cantor didn't on 60 Mins. Lesley Stahl crucified him and showed him the cuts
and Reagan saying he had to compromise.

Like I said, he tried to disband the Federal REserves and was shot for it.

He also brought down the Soviet Union. They were going broke so when Reagan
came in with Mease who financed his campaign and pal Casey who became the
CIA director, they said lets help their bankruptcy along. Our history is their future meaning they steal everything we make.

Lets step up the defense spending and let them steal everything. They can't build it because they can't afford to. It will destroy it and that they did. That's what brought down communism but it cost us and thus the tax hikes.

He built and deployed those Pershing missiles in Germany. Russia was scared to death of them. They could drop directly on top of the Kremlin. They built the
new Abrahms tank with laser weapons. They built the stealth fighter planes and
more B 1 bombers.

But that created a lot of spending but Reagan gets credit for bringing down the Soviet Union and ending the Cold War but it cost us and led to the bad economy
H. Bush got and why he had to raise taxes.

Great points on Wash. Another interesting point was while he was Commanding General he saved the country's money. There were these caves in Kentucky which back then was part of Virginia. They were used by pirates to hide their gold and the Chereokee indians used them to hide in.

Wash hid our gold there during the war so the British wouldn't find and steal
it. There weren't that many banks back then-lol so our national treasure was
hidden in caves.

That's why Ft Knox was created and is located where it is. It's real close to where
all those caves are where Wash hid all the gold. There's an entire army there to protect the gold and it takes an executive order to open the vault.

The vault contains 3 times more gold than Russia, China, India and all of
Europe.

It all started with Wash.

Great post NC.

[wickedsolo]

It's funny when people claim that Lincoln was their favorite President and then they espouse the same rhetoric "He freed the slaves!"


The emancipation proclamation was a strategic design to cripple the south. The intentions were never so pure and just as many would have us believe. In fact, historically speaking, many prominent southern families prior to the civil war were disgusted with slavery and were working to abolish it anyway. You don't ever read or hear about that though.

We can also trace back the massive ineffectiveness of the centralized/federalized government to Lincoln as well. FDR really took it and ran with it, but Lincoln was the one who really made it what it is today. Then when you consider the number of drunk, weenie, pencil pushing Presidents after Lincoln who didn't do anything at all pretty much up until Teddy.

Frankly, the greatest Presidents, IMO, was Teddy, & Jefferson.

[NCRAVEN]

How about worst?

[AirFlacco]

Hell man, Lincoln completely disregarded the constitution so many times like when he surrounded the Maryland state house when they were about to vote on leaving with the
south. Lincoln had to stop it. He would have been surrounded by the southern army. There
were over 100,000 southern sympathizers in Maryland. There are former slave plantations
near here in Harford County and Booth's farm which had slaves is in Bel Air up Churchville Rd.

Then Lincoln arrested many of the legislators and some spent the entire war af Ft Mc Henry
was was used as a POW camp during the war.

LOL - If you go down to Annapolis state house, you will see a big plaque in the hallway,
the same hallway that Washington graced with his appearances that says they were only
gaining information to determine if they would leave. No vote was taking place.

Yea, sure.

Speaking of Booth, Lincoln was also shot and killed when he kept the Central Bank from forming. He said I have two great armies vs me. The southern army in front and the
banks from behind.

Not long after saying that he was assassinated and the strict steps he imposed to prevent a Central Bank were relieved by his successors.

[AirFlacco]

Here's one more interesting point on Reagan. The final straw that broke
Russia's back was when he blew up their oil pipeline. Turns out they stole
our software to start the pipeline.

We heard about it from the French who were told by a Russian defector.
So Casey came up with the brilliant scheme to let them keep stealing the soft ware only it was rigged with explosives.

They had to be careful and did it so the Russians would only put them in remote areas. The explosives could have leveled a village or town. It was
the largest non nuclear explosion in history.

So they got em and put them in and the pipeline exploded. The beauty of it all was they couldn't complain about it. They would have been admitting
espionage.

When Gorbachev ended the cold war he said we have to improve our
computer technology. He referred to the pipeline.

They must have because a new one was recently built and is working and
Russia became the #1 oil producing country in the world. Had that happened in the 80s the cold war would still be going on

http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/it-strat...line-39147917/

[wickedsolo]

How about worst?

Worst?


All of the rest, haha. Pretty much every President between Lincoln and Teddy were all pretty bad. They just literally did nothing.

FDR completely manipulated the system and took advantage of the constitution and his power. The income tax can be traced back to his "New Deal" approach to the economy. Jimmy Carter was a wimp. Lyndon Johnson was owned by the mob and IMO was more behind JFK's assassination than we'll ever know because he was a war monger and wanted to go to war over in Vietnam. JFK didn't. Speaking of which, he was a fraud on many accounts.

[wickedsolo]

Here's one more interesting point on Reagan. The final straw that broke
Russia's back was when he blew up their oil pipeline. Turns out they stole
our software to start the pipeline.

We heard about it from the French who were told by a Russian defector.
So Casey came up with the brilliant scheme to let them keep stealing the soft ware only it was rigged with explosives.

They had to be careful and did it so the Russians would only put them in remote areas. The explosives could have leveled a village or town. It was
the largest non nuclear explosion in history.

So they got em and put them in and the pipeline exploded. The beauty of it all was they couldn't complain about it. They would have been admitting
espionage.

When Gorbachev ended the cold war he said we have to improve our
computer technology. He referred to the pipeline.

They must have because a new one was recently built and is working and
Russia became the #1 oil producing country in the world. Had that happened in the 80s the cold war would still be going on

http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/it-strat...line-39147917/

There are multiple things that are still highly classified that happened between Russian and the US during the Cold War.

In fact we can attribute our quick satellite communication technology to the Cold War and US Efforts to develop photographic technology on satellites to do flyovers of Russia back in the early 60's. That's how they got the idea of going to the moon in the first place. Back in the late 50's we found out that you could actually bounce radio wave signaling off of the moon and redirect it to another location a great distance away.

[AirFlacco]

That's right but we actually didn't get into the space race until the Ruskies sent Sputnik up.
Man, that blew everyone's minds. I was a kid and remember what the hell. How did they
do that.

You mentioned Teddy Roosevelt. What a prick. Talk about 3 terms, after completing two terms and getting his pal Taft in as Prez who rubber stamped all his programs including the worse legislation ever passed - income tax. But Teddy was all for it and actually wanted it passed while he was Pres. In fact, federal income taxes goes back to Lincoln who wanted them to pay for the civil war debt. Only the rich would pay taxes but it was the worse thing a prez ever signed.

Then Teddy got pissed at Taft and actually ran a third time vs him splitting the GOP which allowed Woodrow Wilson to win and establish the Federal Reserve Bank. The income tax was
needed for extra revenue of course. All those years of high tarriffs and isolationism the
GOPs imposed created the need for more revenue. When the US restricted imports,
then our exports were cut abroad. They made things more expensive here. That's why
we need free trade.

The GOPs were very progressive in 1913 just as they are now with their liberal establishent
but Teddy tried to get a tax bill before 1913. Of course the DEMs were more than willing to accommodate them and when Wilson was elected he established the IRS to collect the revenue.

Only people making over $3,000 pr yr paid taxes then so the rich were paying their fair
share-lol. My grand fathers did not make $3,000 pr yr in 1913. They paid no income taxes,
same with my dad, until WW2 came along. Nobody complained because we were fighting
to stay alive but people thought things would go back to before. It never did.

Congress passed the 16th Amendment and started a spending spree that has gone out of
control with this president.

OBAMA is the worse creating more debt than all the guys put together-lol.

[AirFlacco]

One last interesting point on Teddy. He started a new party and called it the Bull Moose Party.
It got its name after he was shot. He was giving one of his famous long winded speeches that lasted over an hour.

Then he was shot and someone said
he stood there after getting shot like a bull moose so the name stuck.

Here's an x-ray of the bullet hole in his chest-lol.

http://retina.smithsonianmag.com/pos...roosevelt-shot


BTW, after Taft lost the election, Harding appointed him to the supreme court and he became chief justice. It was the job he always wanted. He did Teddy a favor by running
as his VP and then Pres to rubber stamp his programs.

It was the greatest comeback after a presidential defeat in history.

Taft was so fat he actually got stuck in the White House bath tub. It took 5 guys to pull
him out and they got a bigger tub. Like his father before him and the Bush's, Taft was
a member of the Skulls and Bones at Harvard. His famous relative also got the famous
Taft Hartley act signed.

That's at least 3 known presidents and 1 SC justice and 1 congressman from the Skulls-lol.

[wickedsolo]

I just watched that movie the other week. Haha.

[AirFlacco]

Yea, at the end the movie says there are at least 5 known presidents and several SC justices
and a lot of congressmen are from the Skulls. Cool movie to see if anyone missed it.

Speaking of the Skulls, they have real skulls in their trophy case. They are Geronomo's
remains-lol. Bush's father, Prescott Bush was in the Army during WW1 and was stationed
at Ft Sill, OK where Geronomo was buried. So pops got some pals and dug the remains
up and sent his skull and bones back to their club house at Yale.

There have been many articles interviewing people who swear they saw the bones in
their trophy case-lol.

Geronomo's grand son sued W Bush and Yale to get the bones back. They believe the
bones are needed to find the trail to the next life. If they're dug up, they will never reach
it so his descendants are blowing their mind over the prank.

Prescott Bush worked for Rockerfeller as an aid and Rockerfeller helped him buy his first
company - one that made drills and tools. Most of the oil wells out west use drills owned
by H Bush today. He was sent out there to watch over the business.

Barbara Bush's father was the banker who watched Rockerfeller's money. Her marriage
to H was arranged. When she got engaged she told her friends she would be first
lady.

They also owned Zepata. That company was used to launder the money by the CIA to
finance the Bay of Pigs operation. As a result of that H Bush later became its director.
The company was sold to Malcolm Glazer who owns the Bucs and tried to bring a team
here.


HEY SOLO - I have a lost of useless info stored up there don't I? I always in trivia pursuit-lol.

[wickedsolo]

I think the Geronimo bones thing is an urban legend. I don't know for sure and I guess we'll never know haha.


Part of my reasoning for liking Teddy was because he was the one who really put the Navy on the map and took it from a fledgling couple of ships and turned it into an actual war-capable fleet. Ever heard of The Great White Fleet? He had a bunch of battleships and destroyers painted white and then they sailed around the world porting in multiple countries so the rest of the world could see how advanced the American Navy was.