Round 4 - Reaches?

[RavenScallywag]

Ok, this was a weird draft for me...I didn't do a ton of research before hand and I wasn't around for...ANY of the draft really (just got the family back from Disney last week).

Let me start by saying I liked our draft as a Solid, Not Spectacular one. Upshaw was the only "exciting" pick. Everything else was just good value to plug holes. Most sites seem to say KO should be able to start at OG and Pierce was a good RB choice. Streeter was a good sleeper pick, our 7th round DT was kind've a throwaway as most 7th rounders are, and the Cal Poly CB should be a good returner...

But Thompson and Gradkowski, our Round 4 picks, are being labeled among the big reaches by DraftCountdown.com. I knew Gradkowski was a bit of a reach...heck, GRADKOWSKI HIMSELF was taken back by the early pick, he wasn't even paying attention to the draft yet (http://www.delawareonline.com/articl...ext%7CHome%7Cs). Didn't think Thompson was a big reach, but he was taken before Iloka, who was widely considered the 2nd best FS in the draft.

So, what do people think of these two? I've seen good scouting reports on both which say that Gradkowski just needs seasoning at C but could be a starter in time, while Thompson is listed as a good rangy ST who could become a serviceable starter in time. But I've also seen that Gradkowski was graded as a 6th or 7th rounder, while Thompson was graded around 6th round.

Do you think we reached for these two need picks?

[TheJoeFlaccoShow]

Ok, this was a weird draft for me...I didn't do a ton of research before hand and I wasn't around for...ANY of the draft really (just got the family back from Disney last week).

Let me start by saying I liked our draft as a Solid, Not Spectacular one. Upshaw was the only "exciting" pick. Everything else was just good value to plug holes. Most sites seem to say KO should be able to start at OG and Pierce was a good RB choice. Streeter was a good sleeper pick, our 7th round DT was kind've a throwaway as most 7th rounders are, and the Cal Poly CB should be a good returner...

But Thompson and Gradkowski, our Round 4 picks, are being labeled among the big reaches by DraftCountdown.com. I knew Gradkowski was a bit of a reach...heck, GRADKOWSKI HIMSELF was taken back by the early pick, he wasn't even paying attention to the draft yet (http://www.delawareonline.com/articl...ext%7CHome%7Cs). Didn't think Thompson was a big reach, but he was taken before Iloka, who was widely considered the 2nd best FS in the draft.

So, what do people think of these two? I've seen good scouting reports on both which say that Gradkowski just needs seasoning at C but could be a starter in time, while Thompson is listed as a good rangy ST who could become a serviceable starter in time. But I've also seen that Gradkowski was graded as a 6th or 7th rounder, while Thompson was graded around 6th round.

Do you think we reached for these two need picks?

You know what they say about opinions....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...30/mmqb/1.html

Trade-down of the weekend: Baltimore trading 29 overall for 35 and 98 overall. In this business, you have to know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. Ozzie Newsome does. The Ravens had crushes on two players late in the first round -- Dont'a Hightower and Kevin Zeitler. The cost to trade up from 29 was too steep, the Ravens thought, and so they dealt back six spots with Minnesota and got the guy who even the dumbest mock- and real-drafters had in the first round, Alabama's Courtney Upshaw, at 35. At 98 comes Delaware guard Gino Gradkowski, who could transition to a long-term center (and successor to Matt Birk). When I called around over the weekend asking for players GMs and coaches liked, the brother of Bruce Gradkowski came up a few times, and he'll have the chance to solve a long-term problem for a gritty offensive team.

[Ravenswintitle]

Yeah they were praising it on SiriusNFL today. Time will tell

[BcRaven]

Ok, this was a weird draft for me...I didn't do a ton of research before hand and I wasn't around for...ANY of the draft really (just got the family back from Disney last week).

Let me start by saying I liked our draft as a Solid, Not Spectacular one. Upshaw was the only "exciting" pick. Everything else was just good value to plug holes. Most sites seem to say KO should be able to start at OG and Pierce was a good RB choice. Streeter was a good sleeper pick, our 7th round DT was kind've a throwaway as most 7th rounders are, and the Cal Poly CB should be a good returner...

But Thompson and Gradkowski, our Round 4 picks, are being labeled among the big reaches by DraftCountdown.com. I knew Gradkowski was a bit of a reach...heck, GRADKOWSKI HIMSELF was taken back by the early pick, he wasn't even paying attention to the draft yet (http://www.delawareonline.com/articl...ext%7CHome%7Cs). Didn't think Thompson was a big reach, but he was taken before Iloka, who was widely considered the 2nd best FS in the draft.

So, what do people think of these two? I've seen good scouting reports on both which say that Gradkowski just needs seasoning at C but could be a starter in time, while Thompson is listed as a good rangy ST who could become a serviceable starter in time. But I've also seen that Gradkowski was graded as a 6th or 7th rounder, while Thompson was graded around 6th round.
Do you think we reached for these two need picks?

Here's why I'll say NO. The Ravens chose Gradkowski @ #98 (3rd pick in 4th round) knowing Ben Jones and Philip Blake (who were both drafted soon thereafter) were still available. Chris Thompson was chosen 37 picks prior to George Iloka. So I must believe that the Ravens picked their guys with a purpose. They didn't make a mistake, they just rated GG and CT higher than the other well known names... Bc

[HoustonRaven]

Florio said it best.

"Reaches" is a media term, used by people who can't wrap their head around the fact their mock draft board got blowed the eff up.

[Paintballguy]

If Gradkowski ends up starting at center, it won't be a reach.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Ok, this was a weird draft for me...I didn't do a ton of research before hand and I wasn't around for...ANY of the draft really (just got the family back from Disney last week).

Let me start by saying I liked our draft as a Solid, Not Spectacular one. Upshaw was the only "exciting" pick. Everything else was just good value to plug holes. Most sites seem to say KO should be able to start at OG and Pierce was a good RB choice. Streeter was a good sleeper pick, our 7th round DT was kind've a throwaway as most 7th rounders are, and the Cal Poly CB should be a good returner...

But Thompson and Gradkowski, our Round 4 picks, are being labeled among the big reaches by DraftCountdown.com. I knew Gradkowski was a bit of a reach...heck, GRADKOWSKI HIMSELF was taken back by the early pick, he wasn't even paying attention to the draft yet (http://www.delawareonline.com/articl...ext%7CHome%7Cs). Didn't think Thompson was a big reach, but he was taken before Iloka, who was widely considered the 2nd best FS in the draft.

So, what do people think of these two? I've seen good scouting reports on both which say that Gradkowski just needs seasoning at C but could be a starter in time, while Thompson is listed as a good rangy ST who could become a serviceable starter in time. But I've also seen that Gradkowski was graded as a 6th or 7th rounder, while Thompson was graded around 6th round.

Do you think we reached for these two need picks?

I would have done quite a few things differently in this past draft...although I can say that after every draft as the Ravens rarely do what I want them to on the 3rd day every year.

But who's grades? The media's?

That same guy on that same site...despite enjoying the site myself...thought Flacco was a reach in 08.

[Carey]

Here's why I'll say NO. The Ravens chose Gradkowski @ #98 (3rd pick in 4th round) knowing Ben Jones and Philip Blake (who were both drafted soon thereafter) were still available. Chris Thompson was chosen 37 picks prior to George Iloka. So I must believe that the Ravens picked their guys with a purpose. They didn't make a mistake, they just rated GG and CT higher than the other well known names... Bc

Well put, i'll also say they took two guys that seem to have alot more upside then the popular picks at their respective positions...Gradkowski is said to be very athletic on top of being a smart and physical player....Thompson has nice size and measurables and has physical mentality, he certaintly seem to have FS ability but also SS toughness

[Boulderraven]

Reaches cause they went to smaller schools?
Ravens have a few starters from smaller schools
Flacco, Webb, Williams, Birk and in the past Scott and Chester Taylor.
Tons of great players went to small schools vJax, TO, Phil
Simms the list can go on forever. Locally Megget,Bushrod, Raymond Chester, Bruce Laird.

[B-more Ravor]

Florio said it best.

"Reaches" is a media term, used by people who can't wrap their head around the fact their mock draft board got blowed the eff up.

[alien bird]

Didn't think Thompson was a big reach, but he was taken before Iloka, who was widely considered the 2nd best FS in the draft.

George Iloka may have been widely considered the 2nd best FS in the draft, but not by the Ravens. They liked Thompson a lot. According to DeCosta, "Christian was a player that we identified early. I think he was probably one of our favorite defensive players, and certainly one of the favorite defensive players on the coaches' board this year . . ."

Iloka is 6'4", 225; Thompson is 6'0", 210, so both are pretty good sized guys for the position. Both are big hitters, but Thompson is the faster and more mobile player, which was probably a key factor for the Ravens. Actually, the Ravens were surprised he was still on the board at that point. I was hoping the Ravens would get him in the 6th round, but there was a lot more interest than I thought.

I also don't think Gino Gradkowski was a reach from the Ravens' board perspective. Yeah, the mock drafts had him going later, but apparently he was also drawing interest from a lot of teams.

Remember, the 4th round picks were 98 and 130 (an untradable comp ppick) and the next pick was also untradable (5th round comp, #169). If the Ravens didn't take Gradkowski with #98 it was likely they wouldn't get him at all. From that perspective he wasn't a reach.

It isn't as if they weren't thought of highly by big college football programs, either. These guys may have been from small schools, but one was a transfer from Auburn (Thompson) while the other was a transfer from West Virginia (Gradkowski).

[duffybr]

Ok, this was a weird draft for me...I didn't do a ton of research before hand and I wasn't around for...ANY of the draft really (just got the family back from Disney last week).

Let me start by saying I liked our draft as a Solid, Not Spectacular one. Upshaw was the only "exciting" pick. Everything else was just good value to plug holes. Most sites seem to say KO should be able to start at OG and Pierce was a good RB choice. Streeter was a good sleeper pick, our 7th round DT was kind've a throwaway as most 7th rounders are, and the Cal Poly CB should be a good returner...

But Thompson and Gradkowski, our Round 4 picks, are being labeled among the big reaches by DraftCountdown.com. I knew Gradkowski was a bit of a reach...heck, GRADKOWSKI HIMSELF was taken back by the early pick, he wasn't even paying attention to the draft yet (http://www.delawareonline.com/articl...ext%7CHome%7Cs). Didn't think Thompson was a big reach, but he was taken before Iloka, who was widely considered the 2nd best FS in the draft.

So, what do people think of these two? I've seen good scouting reports on both which say that Gradkowski just needs seasoning at C but could be a starter in time, while Thompson is listed as a good rangy ST who could become a serviceable starter in time. But I've also seen that Gradkowski was graded as a 6th or 7th rounder, while Thompson was graded around 6th round.

Do you think we reached for these two need picks?

DeCosta said alot of their guys were coming off the board and they had to improvise some. Maybe these 2 were improvisees

[LukeDaniel]

Florio said it best.

"Reaches" is a media term, used by people who can't wrap their head around the fact their mock draft board got blowed the eff up.

There's definitely some truth to that statement. However, I think there are different degrees of reaches. Just because someones mock draft board got decimated doesn't mean they were wrong either. Sometimes teams do things that defy strategic reasoning. Bruce Irvin to the Seahawks. Brandon Weeden to the Browns. AJ Jenkins to the Niners. Different boards will reflect different grading values, but there are consensuses that can't be overlooked.

[TtlPkg17]

I am more inclined to believe that in the fourth they got EXACTLY who they targeted. And they believed that if they did not choose these players then , neither would be there in the fith. I could be completely off base. But here is my logic.

It has come out that Reed has taken a special interest in Thompson. Apparently he has been working with the kid this off season. Also there are rumors that the Ravens had Gradkowski as the highest rated center on their board. Along with a few other teams. If I am correct, didn't a run on centers start shortly after their pick? Anyway...... With the way that players were flying off their boards I think that taking these guys in the fourth was probably the smart thing to do.

With my logic, I hardly see either pick as a reach. More like a well timed calculated move to get two specific targets.

Now with having to take these two guys in the fourth. I think they may have missed out on higher ranked players on their boards at the returner and WR positions. Clearly they were hoping for a different receiver, however, I think they got great value with Streeter in the sixth. And personally I think that Asa may be a blessing in disguise in the fith.

Another specific target was in the third. They traded up to make sure they got Pierce. And from what I understand that was not even close to a reach. Actually many proclaim that pick as a value pick.
All in all I would say that they got three specific targets. Pierce, Thompson, Gradkowski
First pick they got Upshaw that maybe wasnt higest on their board of possible targets. But I find it hard to believe he wasnt in their top 4 or 5. I would call it a score.
I think they maybe settled a bit with KO. But not much.
That would leave Asa, Streeter, and Tyson.. And most would consider Asa and Streeter as being very good value.

Anyway... that is my take and i see narry a reach in this draft class.

[leachisabeast]

When Pittsburgh, Tennessee, and the Colts all rate him as the best center in the draft it's not a reach to get him in the 4th round. At the end of the day, I'm trusting the Ravens board over media websites who think they are "draft experts". It's like the Bruce Irvin pick, what people fail to realise, is that the Jets even rang the Seahawks after that pick to curse them out. We may watch clips on youtube, or watch them on Sturday nights during the season, but at the end of the day teams have coaches tape of these players and know way more than any of us or any draft expert know about them.

[GOTA]

DeCosta said alot of their guys were coming off the board and they had to improvise some. Maybe these 2 were improvisees

That's what I think happened. More players from their board were getting taken than had been in the past. DeCosta said it was the most of any draft. Suddenly they get round 4 and players they thought might be taken in round 6 are now at the top of their board. In that case you're not going to abandon all your research and just pick guys who you consider to be lesser players. You stick to the order you created and pick the guys at the top of the list.

[jaydee414]

Remember, the 4th round picks were 98 and 130 (an untradable comp ppick) and the next pick was also untradable (5th round comp, #169). If the Ravens didn't take Gradkowski with #98 it was likely they wouldn't get him at all. From that perspective he wasn't a reach.

I

This.

[wickedsolo]

Ok, this was a weird draft for me...I didn't do a ton of research before hand and I wasn't around for...ANY of the draft really (just got the family back from Disney last week).

Let me start by saying I liked our draft as a Solid, Not Spectacular one. Upshaw was the only "exciting" pick. Everything else was just good value to plug holes. Most sites seem to say KO should be able to start at OG and Pierce was a good RB choice. Streeter was a good sleeper pick, our 7th round DT was kind've a throwaway as most 7th rounders are, and the Cal Poly CB should be a good returner...

But Thompson and Gradkowski, our Round 4 picks, are being labeled among the big reaches by DraftCountdown.com. I knew Gradkowski was a bit of a reach...heck, GRADKOWSKI HIMSELF was taken back by the early pick, he wasn't even paying attention to the draft yet (http://www.delawareonline.com/articl...ext%7CHome%7Cs). Didn't think Thompson was a big reach, but he was taken before Iloka, who was widely considered the 2nd best FS in the draft.

So, what do people think of these two? I've seen good scouting reports on both which say that Gradkowski just needs seasoning at C but could be a starter in time, while Thompson is listed as a good rangy ST who could become a serviceable starter in time. But I've also seen that Gradkowski was graded as a 6th or 7th rounder, while Thompson was graded around 6th round.

Do you think we reached for these two need picks?

No, Seattle taking Bruce Irvin in round 1 was a reach. San Francisco taking arguably the 7th or 8th best receiver in round 1 when only the top 3 were off the board is probably a reach. But, it all comes down to the team, who they like, who they value, and where they're picking. A reach for one team may be a good value pick for another.

I'll say this about George Iloka though. He's not a free safety at all. Not even close. He's big, no doubt, but he doesn't have the coverage skills and quickness to really be an effective free safety. Christian Thompson may be a small school guy, but keep in mind he was a transfer from Auburn and played in the SEC. He's going to contribute on ST's right away and the upside is there for him to replace Ed Reed as the starting FS in a year or two. That's not something Iloka could have done. The only way I see Iloka sticking in this league is if he puts on about 10-15lbs and drops down to OLB in a cover-2 scheme. He might be able to stick as an "in the box" strong safety. He's already 6'3" 225lbs...bump him up to 235lbs and put him at OLB because he doesn't have the fluidness and range to play deep safety. We see this every year with big safeties. As fans we're enamored with them because they just look like men amongst boys out there. It happened with Taylor Mays (6'3" 230lbs), Robert Sands (6'4" 215lbs), and Aaron Rouse (6'3" 225lbs).

[JAB1985]

Florio said it best.

"Reaches" is a media term, used by people who can't wrap their head around the fact their mock draft board got blowed the eff up.

thats funny.

I think alienbird nailed it. We didnt have ammo to move around in the 4th and 5th so we had to take him at 98, rightfully so, as a run on Cs came right after. Some teams, us apparently, had him as one of, if not the best C prospect. In 3 years when we know the true outcome and they regrade this draft, maybe hes valued a first or second rounder... then its not a reach but a steal.

[Ravenswintitle]

When Pittsburgh, Tennessee, and the Colts all rate him as the best center in the draft it's not a reach to get him in the 4th round. At the end of the day, I'm trusting the Ravens board over media websites who think they are "draft experts". It's like the Bruce Irvin pick, what people fail to realise, is that the Jets even rang the Seahawks after that pick to curse them out. We may watch clips on youtube, or watch them on Sturday nights during the season, but at the end of the day teams have coaches tape of these players and know way more than any of us or any draft expert know about them.

I keep seeing reference to this but I haven't seen anyone back it up. All I saw was a tweet that said 'some good teams' liked him. Is there anything more?