Saints Player Suspensions Announced

**blah3** · 05-02-2012, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Not when you consider, they HAD A BOUNTY TO INJURE other players, that could in turn shorten their careers.

Have you heard the tape of Williams in a team meeting telling his guys to go after Kyle Williams' (I believe) head, and it was something to the affect that he has had concussions.

Again does the league have tape of illegal hits?

**NCRAVEN** · 05-02-2012, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by blah3

Again does the league have tape of illegal hits?

Sigh... Yes... Hold please.

**wickedsolo** · 05-02-2012, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by blah3

Again does the league have tape of illegal hits?

Does it matter?

The whole bounty thing transcends the NFL and becomes a potential federal issue for obtaining money not included/authorized/TAXED within their specific contract.

**festivus** · 05-02-2012, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by blah3

Two things here, if that is the case, Goodell should have come out and said it. You are expecting me to place trust in PFT. We see how accurate their portayal of Harbaugh's comments were.

Secondly, is there evidence that the players actually committed illegal hits in response to the bounties? Do the Saints have an above the league average of illegal hits during those years? Every team in the league has a 'money pot'.

1 year is outrageous. Especially considering the career length of players.

I strongly suspect the reason the punishments throughout this case have been so severe is that the people involved lied to NFL investigators to cover up what was happening.

I think the *real* message being sent here, and the real distinction between what NO did and what NE did, is that Goodell will come down on you like God's hammer if you lie to investigators. If you did something wrong, fine, they'll take a 1st and a fine or something, but if you are called down to the office and lie to the principal, heaven have mercy on your soul.

**NCRAVEN** · 05-02-2012, 12:34 PM

I can't find the thread, but if you look for the thread that came out when ESPN first reported it, several people posted videos.

Like this one

or this one

**arnie_uk** · 05-02-2012, 12:36 PM

Does it matter if they succedded in injury players and racking up illegal hits penaltys? NO, fact is it was the intention, whether or not they were successful, and there is clear evidence of said intention, we all heard it... Doesnt matter if they actually done it, they tried, thats the crime...

Your interpretation could be extended to attempted murder... no crime committed here because the person isnt dead....

**NCRAVEN** · 05-02-2012, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by arnie_uk

Does it matter if they succedded in injury players and racking up illegal hits penaltys? NO, fact is it was the intention, whether or not they were successful, and there is clear evidence of said intention, we all heard it... Doesnt matter if they actually done it, they tried, thats the crime...

Your interpretation could be extended to attempted murder... no crime committed here because the person isnt dead....

**OC Bob** · 05-02-2012, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by arnie_uk

Does it matter if they succedded in injury players and racking up illegal hits penaltys? NO, fact is it was the intention, whether or not they were successful, and there is clear evidence of said intention, we all heard it... Doesnt matter if they actually done it, they tried, thats the crime...

Your interpretation could be extended to attempted murder... no crime committed here because the person isnt dead....

Double that

**wickedsolo** · 05-02-2012, 12:53 PM

I remember that when Will Smith put his knee into Flacco's helmet. From that angle it definitely looks purposeful.

**blah3** · 05-02-2012, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by arnie_uk

Does it matter if they succedded in injury players and racking up illegal hits penaltys? NO, fact is it was the intention, whether or not they were successful, and there is clear evidence of said intention, we all heard it... Doesnt matter if they actually done it, they tried, thats the crime...

Your interpretation could be extended to attempted murder... no crime committed here because the person isnt dead....

Again, if they did not do illegal hits, what are they punishing? I could just as easily say that YOUR interpration of their intentions to do illegal hits is skewed.
Every team is looking to 'take a player out'. Do you always interpret that as doing it illegally?

**Corey** · 05-02-2012, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I remember that when Will Smith put his knee into Flacco's helmet. From that angle it definitely looks purposeful.

I was about to make the same comment. Will Smith was still engaged with a blocker when Flacco initially hit the ground. That was beyond a late hit. He went out of his way to land on Flacco, there was plenty of space there for him to take his dive elsewhere.

Boldin was quite ticked after that play to. I wish there was video that showed what happened down field.

**NCRAVEN** · 05-02-2012, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by blah3

Again, if they did not do illegal hits, what are they punishing? I could just as easily say that YOUR interpration of their intentions to do illegal hits is skewed.
Every team is looking to 'take a player out'. Do you always interpret that as doing it illegally?

Did they have a bounty system and then lie and cover it up?

**blah3** · 05-02-2012, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Did they have a bounty system and then lie and cover it up?

This shows your interpretation is being skewed.

**Corey** · 05-02-2012, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Did they have a bounty system and then lie and cover it up?

Do you think the sky is blue today NCRAVEN? It looks kind of orange to me.

**NCRAVEN** · 05-02-2012, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by blah3

This shows your interpretation is being skewed.

Interpretation is skewed? How do you mean?

**pslholder96** · 05-02-2012, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by blah3

This shows your interpretation is being skewed.

Is that you Mrs Vilma??

**blah3** · 05-02-2012, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Interpretation is skewed? How do you mean?

For example, if Suggs says he is going to take out Ben R. You don't automatically assume that he means by doing it with illegal hits. Your interpretation is most likely that Suggs means he is going to hit him as hard as he can, within the rules of the game.
The Saints are not getting that interpretation, they all are getting the opposite. They must mean illegal hits. They bring up the hit on Kurt Warner for example. A hit that was completely legal. But somehow, now that is evidence.

**HoustonRaven** · 05-02-2012, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by blah3

For example, if Suggs says he is going to take out Ben R. You don't automatically assume that he means by doing it with illegal hits. Your interpretation is most likely that Suggs means he is going to hit him as hard as he can, within the rules of the game.
The Saints are not getting that interpretation, they all are getting the opposite. They must mean illegal hits. They bring up the hit on Kurt Warner for example. A hit that was completely legal. But somehow, now that is evidence.

They lied to the Commish about their involvement.

They were also told to stop yet kept going.

Did you even read the report?

**wickedsolo** · 05-02-2012, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by blah3

For example, if Suggs says he is going to take out Ben R. You don't automatically assume that he means by doing it with illegal hits. Your interpretation is most likely that Suggs means he is going to hit him as hard as he can, within the rules of the game.
The Saints are not getting that interpretation, they all are getting the opposite. They must mean illegal hits. They bring up the hit on Kurt Warner for example. A hit that was completely legal. But somehow, now that is evidence.

In my interpretation it has less to do with the hits and more to do with the exchange of non-contract money.

**NCRAVEN** · 05-02-2012, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by blah3

For example, if Suggs says he is going to take out Ben R. You don't automatically assume that he means by doing it with illegal hits. Your interpretation is most likely that Suggs means he is going to hit him as hard as he can, within the rules of the game.
The Saints are not getting that interpretation, they all are getting the opposite. They must mean illegal hits. They bring up the hit on Kurt Warner for example. A hit that was completely legal. But somehow, now that is evidence.

Your assumption about what my interpretation of a hypothetical scenario is, is incorrect.

If Suggs, or another player in the league said that, I would assume that's a figure of speech. if Suggs or any other player i.e the Saints players were saying these things and had a bounty system + had audio of meetings targeting players head (with illegal or legal hits) because the recently had concussions + lying about the bounty system and covering it up, then I would say fine and suspend the player.

I think the suspensions are justified, given all the evidence, and as others mentioned even if they weren't successful the intent was there.