Saints Player Suspensions Announced

[blacknpurplepain]

Again, they have evidence and documentation on Vilma specifically advocating and supporting these bounties.

B. Favre and kurt Warner

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...r-all-of-2012/

Kurt Warner too

[NCRAVEN]

Right, turning in a report. Like I said, arguing with a kid.

You take as a premise that "it goes on in every locker room." Your entire argument is based on that premise. Without it, you have nothing.

Now go back it up. And explain how it's like the NO situation, including the cover up, the prior warnings, the outside money, all of it.

I won't hold my breath.

I asked for that proof a few post back and am still holding my breath.

If you call my work number just ask for Mr. Blue.

[blah3]

1. Prove it

?

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/footb...see/53364620/1

[blacknpurplepain]

Does it matter if they succedded in injury players and racking up illegal hits penaltys? NO, fact is it was the intention, whether or not they were successful, and there is clear evidence of said intention, we all heard it... Doesnt matter if they actually done it, they tried, thats the crime...

Your interpretation could be extended to attempted murder... no crime committed here because the person isnt dead....

Or hiring an undercover cop to kill your spouse. I think it's fair bc missing 1 year of football is less than a whole career due to an illegal hit

[NCRAVEN]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/footb...see/53364620/1

It would seem this follows Gregg Williams and is not part of every locker room.

If even it is is, do you think that makes it okay?

[blah3]

Right, turning in a report. Like I said, arguing with a kid.

Yes, because there are no places in the working world where you will have to turn in a report.

[NCRAVEN]

Yes, because there are no places in the working world where you will have to turn in a report.

Using "will" here implies "in the future" meaning you're not here yet. Not saying that's the case just an FYI.

[dandrews]

Vilma should be lucky he only got a year, considering he committed a federal felony.

[blacknpurplepain]

Again, if they did not do illegal hits, what are they punishing? I could just as easily say that YOUR interpration of their intentions to do illegal hits is skewed.
Every team is looking to 'take a player out'. Do you always interpret that as doing it illegally?

They are being punished for lying, putting untaxed money in a pool trying to purposely hurt a player especially during a time when player safety is a big issue and conduct issues. They lucky they didn't get a life time ban. I don't understand how anyone can defend these actions and I love hard hitting

[blah3]

It would seem this follows Gregg Williams and is not part of every locker room.

If even it is is, do you think that makes it okay?

I really don't care if the players have a pot of money or not. This has been going on a long time now. Seems the players were not really offended by it. Seems the players understand that it's not about ending someone's career.

I think what is happening here, is that many people are having an emotional reaction to the situation. Because of this emotional reaction, they are making out the Saints to be evil. I think that this situation of bounties is not different, or malicious in intent, as what goes on in other locker rooms in the NFL.
Heck you've got stickers for college players for stuff like this as well.

[blah3]

They are being punished for lying, putting untaxed money in a pool trying to purposely hurt a player especially during a time when player safety is a big issue and conduct issues. They lucky they didn't get a life time ban. I don't understand how anyone can defend these actions and I love hard hitting

Every team is trying to purposefully 'hurt' a player. You don't think Suggs is trying to 'hurt' Big Ben or Brady?

[NCRAVEN]

I really don't care if the players have a pot of money or not. This has been going on a long time now. Seems the players were not really offended by it. Seems the players understand that it's not about ending someone's career.

I think what is happening here, is that many people are having an emotional reaction to the situation. Because of this emotional reaction, they are making out the Saints to be evil. I think that this situation of bounties is not different, or malicious in intent, as what goes on in other locker rooms in the NFL.
Heck you've got stickers for college players for stuff like this as well.

I don't want to jump to conclusions, but based on that response I'll take the answer to my question of have you heard the tape of Williams in the team meeting before the San Fran game as "no".

[blah3]

I don't want to jump to conclusions, but based on that response I'll take the answer to my question of have you heard the tape of Williams in the team meeting before the San Fran game as "no".

We are not discussing the punishment of Gregg Williams.

[blah3]

Using "will" here implies "in the future" meaning you're not here yet. Not saying that's the case just an FYI.

I really have no interest in defending my age. Just pointed out that the other poster really had no point on the use of a report to prove my age.
The pointing out of grammatical errors on a message board is IMO just plain foolish.

[NCRAVEN]

We are not discussing the punishment of Gregg Williams.

Well I jumped to a conclusion that was correct.

I am done arguing with someone who is clearly not educated about the subject, other than to think there was just a pool of money to put guys out of a game but not to injure or end their career.

Tell ya what, do some more research and come back when you have the facts.

[blah3]

Well I jumped to a conclusion that was correct.

I am done arguing with someone who is clearly not educated about the subject, other than to think there was just a pool of money to put guys out of a game but not to injure or end their career.

Tell ya what, do some more research and come back when you have the facts.

So Jonathon Vilma is to be responsible for a speech by Gregg Williams?

[blah3]

Well I jumped to a conclusion that was correct.

I am done arguing with someone who is clearly not educated about the subject, other than to think there was just a pool of money to put guys out of a game but not to injure or end their career.

Tell ya what, do some more research and come back when you have the facts.

http://articles.businessinsider.com/...h-school-level

[NCRAVEN]

http://articles.businessinsider.com/...h-school-level

1. You still didn't listen to tape.

2. You just proved my argument. Thank you.

From YOUR link

And while Williams says some of the speech is over the top, he defends most of it as what you would hear in most locker rooms (via ESPN)...

"[this] falls into what happens on a Saturday night heading into a Sunday game. A lot of it was just 'let's be violent, let's play hard.' I've heard 'take the head and the body will fall,' I've heard that a million times, even at the high school level. I think where he gets specific. Where he starts to name names, as far as Michael Crabtree and going after the ACL. Taking Vernon Davis and going after the ankles. And Kyle Williams and going after the head concussion. I think that's when specifically, that's when it goes overboard...But for the most part, what you heard in that speech, the violence that takes place on a Saturday with the speeches that are given, as far as what we call the 'rah-rah speech,' that happens. That is the norm on a Saturday night heading into a Sunday game."

So Darren Woodson says the voilent speech is the norm, but the specifics are not the norm and go overboard. Thus disproving your point that it goes on in every locker room and proves mine that the intent to injure players and potentially end their career was over the top, and worthy of the year suspension.

[festivus]

Yes, because there are no places in the working world where you will have to turn in a report.

Right. When you get there, I hope you will take care to write as well as you are able. It may not make a difference to *you* that you are still turning in reports to teachers, but it makes a difference to me, as a guy who doesn't mind going slowly and patiently with someone who thinks he knows everything even when he's completely wrong.

http://articles.businessinsider.com/...h-school-level

Not sure if you read the article you linked there, but the writer specifically says Williams went "overboard" exhorting the players to attack specific injuries to specific players and that's the part where he's talking about putting money into the bounty pot, too, which is the same bounty scheme that got them all in trouble.

[blah3]

1. You still didn't listen to tape.

2. You just proved my argument. Thank you.

From YOUR link


So Darren Woodson says the voilent speech is the norm, but the specifics are not the norm and go overboard. Thus disproving your point that it goes on in every locker room and proves mine that the intent to injure players and potentially end their career was over the top, and worthy of the year suspension.

I'm pretty sure that I said Gregg Williams is not the topic of discussion. I used that link to show that his speech was not too far away from the norm, and as such, supply credence to my point that Jonathon Vilma is not Gregg Williams and should be judged by his own actions and not Gregg Williams actions. You bringing Gregg Williams into the conversation implies that Vilma heard some sort of unbelievably out there speech and should have become aware of how out of control Williams was.

Now, contrary to the opinions of some, I'm leaving work now. I will gladly take this up tomorrow. n