Suicide Discussion -- Dumped from Ravens24x7 Forum

**Random Thoughts** · 05-02-2012, 03:49 PM

I could not help, but wonder why is 'suicide' a bad thing?

Seau made a choice, and he owed no one that choice (not even to his children). We should respect that choice as we respect the man.

His sacrifice, in my opinion, isn't any different to those who make sacrifices in war or such. I am not equivalent this with military, but the point being that the choice has been made.

Rest assured, I said that with a heavy heart. Seau was among my favorite players. I took a great pleasure to say "JUNIOR SEAU" just to give me the adrenaline rush, but anymore...

EDIT: I intend not to upset any of you, and I acknowledge that my rationale does not lie along with the prevailing communitarian philosophy that is shared in our country.

**NCRAVEN** · 05-02-2012, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Random Thoughts

I could not help, but wonder why is 'suicide' a bad thing?

Seau made a choice, and he owed no one that choice (not even to his children). We should respect that choice as we respect the man.

His sacrifice, in my opinion, isn't any different to those who make sacrifices in war or such. I am not equivalent this with military, but the point being that the choice has been made.

Rest assured, I said that with a heavy heart. Seau was among my favorite players. I took a great pleasure to say "JUNIOR SEAU" just to give me the adrenaline rush, but anymore...

EDIT: I intend not to upset any of you, and I acknowledge that my rationale does not lie along with the prevailing communitarian philosophy that is shared in our country.

Long term (and final) solution to a short term problem. Typically made by people mentally unstable.

Had he had an incurable disease I think most here may agree with you. But in this case, your random thought, to me, is way off.

**ballhawk** · 05-02-2012, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Random Thoughts

I could not help, but wonder why is 'suicide' a bad thing?

Seau made a choice, and he owed no one that choice (not even to his children). We should respect that choice as we respect the man.

His sacrifice, in my opinion, isn't any different to those who make sacrifices in war or such. I am not equivalent this with military, but the point being that the choice has been made.

Rest assured, I said that with a heavy heart. Seau was among my favorite players. I took a great pleasure to say "JUNIOR SEAU" just to give me the adrenaline rush, but anymore...

this is the most retarded thing i have ever read on here. Equating suicide with the sacrifice that soldiers make??? You obviously havent seen the tape of his mother at the podium.

**Random Thoughts** · 05-02-2012, 04:05 PM

Ballhawk,

First, I thought I clarified that part by saying "I am not equivalent this with the military". Second, "... those who make sacrifices in war" does not necessary refer to soldiers.

**Random Thoughts** · 05-02-2012, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Long term (and final) solution to a short term problem. Typically made by people mentally unstable.

Had he had an incurable disease I think most here may agree with you. But in this case, your random thought, to me, is way off.

We can have a philosophical discourse on the topic, but I did note that my reasoning may not be in line with contemporary thinking. Basically, I just didn't think we should "judge" the choice(s) that other made. Sure, we can try to sympathize/understand the choices, but ultimately, it isn't our place to judge.

I don't want to go on with this debate as a man's life has expired.

(feel free to PM me if you want to discuss our philosophical differences, I will gladly respond)

**BcRaven** · 05-02-2012, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by ballhawk

this (reply to Random Thoughts) is the most retarded thing i have ever read on here. Equating suicide with the sacrifice that soldiers make??? You obviously havent seen the tape of his mother at the podium.

hawk, add me to your side. His was one of the most asinine posts I've seen in a long time. Suicide is really for cowards. Heard a clergyman say "God may give you 1,000 NOs before the YES you're looking for. You have to remain strong during the NO period to appreciate that YES." ... Bc

**HoustonRaven** · 05-02-2012, 04:20 PM

If y'all wish to discuss the issue of suicide, please do so here .....

**LukeDaniel** · 05-02-2012, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Random Thoughts

I could not help, but wonder why is 'suicide' a bad thing?

Seau made a choice, and he owed no one that choice (not even to his children). We should respect that choice as we respect the man.

This is utter BS for so many reasons. I agree that it is one of the most uneducated things I've ever seen posted here.

A lot of people make bad choices. We need to respect their choices too? What about child molesters? Should we respect their choices too? What about people who go out to a bar with the sole purpose of getting hammered and driving back home? We need to respect their choices too? Is that how morally compromised we've become? Really?

Suicide for anyone is not victimless. It leaves scars on the people you live behind. To say that it was Junior's choic and his choice alone, that's so short-sighted that I don't even know where to start. It's a selfish, cowardly gesture. I will never respect such a decision.

Even worse, is that you indirectly compared it to a soldier giving his life. You refered to it as a "sacrifice". That's beyond stupid. A sacrifice is Sergeant Joe Blow getting his head shot off in Afghanistan in service of our country. A sacrifice is dying 6000 miles from home laying on enemy sand so that a few thousand people in your hometown can ever know you gave your life for your country. That's a sacrifice. Everything that Joe Blow has and ever will be goes to his fellow citizens....including the gutless Seau.

Junior Seau died in his million dollar mansion probably no more than a few hundred yards from the ocean. He did so by his own volition, not an enemy RPG. There is no comparison between the two.

Great football player. Probably one of the 25 best defensive players in the NFL's history. Let's not get carried away by implying that his cowardice in taking his own life was a sacrifice. The people who are sacrificing are the young kids who will go through so many important events in life without their father in attendance. For that reason alone, I have no respect for his decision.

**NCRAVEN** · 05-02-2012, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Random Thoughts

We can have a philosophical discourse on the topic, but I did note that my reasoning may not be in line with contemporary thinking. Basically, I just didn't think we should "judge" the choice(s) that other made. Sure, we can try to sympathize/understand the choices, but ultimately, it isn't our place to judge.

I don't want to go on with this debate as a man's life has expired.

(feel free to PM me if you want to discuss our philosophical differences, I will gladly respond)

I'm good man, you have your opinion and I have mine.

You show me where a sane person has ended their life and we can start a PM discussion.

**wickedsolo** · 05-02-2012, 05:18 PM

I get where the OP is coming from regarding Seau's choice...

The problem with suicide is that it's entirely a selfish act because of what you leave behind. His family, kids, parents, siblings, friends, etc are the ones who have to deal with this.

**HoustonRaven** · 05-02-2012, 05:34 PM

I normally agree with the "selfless act" meme, but if this turns out to be concussions related, then it's just the opposite, IMO.

This particular form of depression (one that's brought upon by repeated head trauma, if that is indeed the reason Seau took his life) is doing hella damage to soldiers coming home from combat, athletes from many other sports, professional wrestlers, etc.

It's absolutely brutal the way it effects the brain, cognitive skills and reasoning and general well being.

**jaydee414** · 05-03-2012, 05:03 AM

I have known of successful suicides that were done as a means to stop the hurt and suffering that the person was causing their family and friends. Not sure if that can be lumped in with the "always selfish" load.
Whatever the cause, Seau's decision to end his life was, indeed, his alone to make, whether one agrees and approves or not.
The issue, ultimately, is between Seau and his god(s), not us.

**Irish Raven** · 05-03-2012, 06:15 AM

I can see why some call it a selfish act but I can't agree

If you're in dark where you feel as a failure, you've let everyone down and they would be better off without you are you realy doing it for selfish reasons?

It's not always about just checking out and ending your pain, can also be as you believe you will end the pain for others

So I would never ever call it a selfish act

**NCRAVEN** · 05-03-2012, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by Irish Raven

I can see why some call it a selfish act but I can't agree

If you're in dark where you feel as a failure, you've let everyone down and they would be better off without you are you realy doing it for selfish reasons?

It's not always about just checking out and ending your pain, can also be as you believe you will end the pain for others

So I would never ever call it a selfish act

This is a fair point, in general. However, I don't think it applies to this case. You can see and hear the pain Seau's friends and family is going though.

**Captain Silver** · 05-05-2012, 12:07 PM

I found it hard to listen too. I just wanted to hug that poor girl. Sorry, but Seau was a fucking dick for doing that. Yeah, yeah, he wasn't in his right mind and all that bullshit, but what he did traumatized her for a lifetime. One of my idiot friends did the same to himself, I understand his dimensia, but what he did to his fiancee and his family were beyond bad.

Thing with suicides, their problems are over, its the whole set of new ones they spawn on to others.

**bmorebirds_24** · 05-05-2012, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Captain Silver

I found it hard to listen too. I just wanted to hug that poor girl. Sorry, but Seau was a fucking dick for doing that. Yeah, yeah, he wasn't in his right mind and all that bullshit, but what he did traumatized her for a lifetime. One of my idiot friends did the same to himself, I understand his dimensia, but what he did to his fiancee and his family were beyond bad.

Thing with suicides, their problems are over, its the whole set of new ones they spawn on to others.

You have a good point and I agree its a terrible thing to leave others behind. But I also feel like we shouldn't judge so harshly not ever being in his mind set.

I'm no Dr but I am sure your mind has to go completely wack to make the decision. I am sure he didn't say well life sucks, I'm done, fuck everyone else. He had to be at a horribly low point to go through with it.

It's sad what happened to her. But what's to say she didn't set him to the final breaking point to actually pull the trigger?

I'm gonna take heat for this post but people judge so quickly and have no idea the entire situation. Kinda think its harsh to call him a fucking dick.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

**arnie_uk** · 05-05-2012, 12:18 PM

i think it is a bit harsh, but its a shelfish thing suicide, i think we can all agree on that

Originally Posted by bmorebirds_24

You have a good point and I agree its a terrible thing to leave others behind. But I also feel like we shouldn't judge so harshly not ever being in his mind set.

I'm no Dr but I am sure your mind has to go completely wack to make the decision. I am sure he didn't say well life sucks, I'm done, fuck everyone else. He had to be at a horribly low point to go through with it.

It's sad what happened to her. But what's to say she didn't set him to the final breaking point to actually pull the trigger?

I'm gonna take heat for this post but people judge so quickly and have no idea the entire situation. Kinda think its harsh to call him a fucking dick.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

**BcRaven** · 05-05-2012, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by arnie_uk

i think it is a bit harsh, but its a shelfish thing suicide, i think we can all agree on that

arnie, I got a PM from another poster (who shall go nameless), a couple of days ago, chastising me for my stance on the subject of suicide. I'll post my reply below :

"While some cultures (Japan for instance, although I don't know if it applies today)
see suicide as an honorable act, I do not.
I see it as a person who is willing to leave his/her parents, spouse, children, and friends
to "clean up" their act without thought of the burden they are leaving behind. It is IMO a coward's way out. While I respect your opinion, I do disagree with it wholeheartedly."
... Bc

**arnie_uk** · 05-05-2012, 12:30 PM

so he agrees with me then if im reading that correct, and you dont think its shelfish?

Originally Posted by BcRaven

arnie, I got a PM from another poster (who shall go nameless), a couple of days ago, chastising me for my stance on the subject of suicide. I'll post my reply below :

"While some cultures (Japan for instance, although I don't know if it applies today)
see suicide as an honorable act, I do not.
I see it as a person who is willing to leave his/her parents, spouse, children, and friends
to "clean up" their act without thought of the burden they are leaving behind. It is IMO a coward's way out. While I respect your opinion, I do disagree with it wholeheartedly."
... Bc

**Lee Van Cleef** · 05-05-2012, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

This is a fair point, in general. However, I don't think it applies to this case. You can see and hear the pain Seau's friends and family is going though.

I think both viewpoints are all equally valid in the minds of those that possess them. For those left behind it is a selfish act in that they've been left with the pain of losing a loved one, often without knowing why that person was hurting so much. But from the perspective of the person who commits suicide, as was mentioned, in their mind everything they do is worthless and so are they, they're more likely to perceive themselves as a drain and burden on those around them and want to relieve them of that.

The tragedy lies in that if both 'sides' could see the other's point of view before someone took their own life then maybe more suicides would be avoided.