Concussions in Sports -- From PFT, ESPN, etc (Merged)

**BcRaven** · 05-07-2012, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by TheJoeFlaccoShow

... They ALL want a piece of that lawsuit pie! Free money to replace the money you have blown post retirement!!

You are so right! Turn on TV and see the ads for lawyers today "Have you been injured? You may be entitled to a large settlement!" They goad people into suing because they know there's no negative impact on them if they lose...which they rarely do because companies would rather settle than go to court in a multi-million dollar lawsuit. Every football player knows there is a risk of injury, but they put that aside for (IMO) two reasons : (1) they feel they're young and indestructible (2) the money is so BIG. "RISK / REWARD" is part of life, so why should they be immune to it? ... Bc

**moose10101** · 05-07-2012, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by srobert96

I am cynical about linking concussions to suicide. I think you would have to look at the rate by which other athletes who suffer similar head trauma commit suicide. You rarely hear about hockey players and or boxers committing suicide.

Boxing:

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...de-in-a-year/1

Hockey players get concussions, but they aren't subjected to all of the non-concussive hits that football players absorb. Those repeated hits, in some cases a thousand or more per year, are what appear to be causing a lot of the damage.

**Irish Raven** · 05-07-2012, 02:36 PM

Maybe one day John Grisham will write a book on all this

He's a great man for entertaining stories about lawyers and lawsuits.

**HoustonRaven** · 05-07-2012, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by moose10101

Boxing:

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...de-in-a-year/1

Hockey players get concussions, but they aren't subjected to all of the non-concussive hits that football players absorb. Those repeated hits, in some cases a thousand or more per year, are what appear to be causing a lot of the damage.

The NHL also went with an anti-concussion lining to all helmets, something the NFLPA has been fighting for a few years.

Eli Manning and DeSean Jackson are the only two players I am aware of that are wearing them on their own.

**TheJoeFlaccoShow** · 05-07-2012, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

The NHL also went with an anti-concussion lining to all helmets, something the NFLPA has been fighting for a few years.

Eli Manning and DeSean Jackson are the only two players I am aware of that are wearing them on their own.

I heard a doctor talking about this very subject, and he explained that it doesn't matter what you do to the helmet it won't help with concussions. He said the modern helmet(and every one before it) is designed to prevent skull fractures and the like, and there is nothing you can do to stop the brain from oscillating inside the skull which is what happens with a concussion.

You can have all the padding, all the technology you want inside the helmet but the impact from a hit and the brain jarring itself inside the skull just can't be prevented. Obviously a better helmet couldn't hurt but it does very little to help it just isn't possible with the nature of the injury.

He explained it much better than I could if that doesn't make sense.

**wickedsolo** · 05-07-2012, 02:50 PM

I posted some stuff about the newer equipment that is becoming more and more available to players and there are a fair amount of programs that are making these types of helmets mandatory uniform items for their programs because of the improved safety features.

Here is an article from Virginia Tech on it...
http://www.vtnews.vt.edu/articles/20...etratings.html

The information is based on a new evaluation methodology that incorporated eight years of data and analysis, quantifying head impact exposure and risk of concussion. The testing data showed that the overall best helmet currently available to the public is the Riddell Revolution Speed, which earned the only "5-star" rating. The next category includes five very good performing helmets that were all given a "4-star" rating: Schutt ION 4D, Schutt DNA Pro+, Xenith X1, Riddell Revolution, and Riddell Revolution IQ, according to Stefan Duma who directed the project.

Here is the current best rated football helmet available:

Seems to me that if the NFL is serious about concussions then they will make these helmets mandatory uniform items for every player.

**HoustonRaven** · 05-07-2012, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by TheJoeFlaccoShow

I heard a doctor talking about this very subject, and he explained that it doesn't matter what you do to the helmet it won't help with concussions. He said the modern helmet(and every one before it) is designed to prevent skull fractures and the like, and there is nothing you can do to stop the brain from oscillating inside the skull which is what happens with a concussion.

You can have all the padding, all the technology you want inside the helmet but the impact from a hit and the brain jarring itself inside the skull just can't be prevented. Obviously a better helmet couldn't hurt but it does very little to help it just isn't possible with the nature of the injury.

He explained it much better than I could if that doesn't make sense.

It makes sense. I've read the same thing too.

What I have read is that it wont eliminate concussions completely. Rather, it limits certain kinds of concussions because of its energy absorption properties. For example, that type of helmet may have helped Colt McCoy last year since his was a helmet-to-helmet hit, with not as much sudden lateral movement to the rear like we saw with Carson Palmer and his head bouncing off the turf a few years ago.

**wickedsolo** · 05-07-2012, 02:52 PM

Inside look of the Revo speed:

**Shas** · 05-07-2012, 02:52 PM

I hear what the doctor is saying, but I guess I find the claim to be a little surprising.

If you think of the inner shell of your cranium as a wall, then a blunt hit that causes a sudden stop to your momentum is going to cause the brain to bounce off of that wall hard. If you can provide cushion, so that there is room for the head to continue its momentum forward and slow to a stop more gradually, then it would seem the brain would be hitting a wall that is moving with it, rather than smacking into a literal wall.

There is probably more to the physics I don't understand, but I always assumed that the airbag concept would apply.

**wickedsolo** · 05-07-2012, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by TheJoeFlaccoShow

I heard a doctor talking about this very subject, and he explained that it doesn't matter what you do to the helmet it won't help with concussions. He said the modern helmet(and every one before it) is designed to prevent skull fractures and the like, and there is nothing you can do to stop the brain from oscillating inside the skull which is what happens with a concussion.

You can have all the padding, all the technology you want inside the helmet but the impact from a hit and the brain jarring itself inside the skull just can't be prevented. Obviously a better helmet couldn't hurt but it does very little to help it just isn't possible with the nature of the injury.

He explained it much better than I could if that doesn't make sense.

This is 100% true, but there are helmets out there (Revolution & Revo Speed) that distribute single points of impact over a much larger surface area better than helmets of the past. This isn't going to guarantee players 100% safety, but it can greatly reduce the risk of concussions. It's kind of similar to bullet proof vests work. It takes a single point of impact and distributes that force/energy over a larger surface area to reduce to overall impact.

Currently, these helmets are mandatory at schools like Notre Dame, Navy, Va Tech, UVA, etc.

**HoustonRaven** · 05-07-2012, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Seems to me that if the NFL is serious about concussions then they will make these helmets mandatory uniform items for every player.

Players are allowed to choose from three different helmets, one of which is the one to which you linked.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...wrated-helmets

**Thyrl** · 05-07-2012, 02:56 PM

What I find most interesting is that if we concede that concussions have wrought havoc on the lives of former players, we still can't know when that damage happened. While the NFL features the biggest and strongest and fastest, therefore resulting in the most violent collisions, they're happening to grown ups with fully formed bones and brains. Is that more dangerous than hits that kids suffer at the youth levels while brains are still forming and bones are still soft? All of these NFL players began playing football and taking hits long before their NFL careers began.

While it's easy to poo-poo on the millionaires who weighed out the risk reward equation, most football players never make it to the NFL. How many "regular guys" are walking around with similar conditions due to injuries from their high school or college playing days?

In my opinion this isn't an NFL problem, it's a football problem. Are we ready to address that? Are we ready to acknowledge that we could be damaging our kids for later in life by allowing them to play at the youth levels?

At least the pros we're talking about did get some reward for their services. There are many more who were likely damaged without ever seeing that kind of benefit.

Without youth football, there is no NFL. Without youth boxing, there is no professional boxing. For every pro football player or boxing champion we see, there are tens of thousands of others that took punishment without ever realizing those dreams.

Are we ready yet to start debating whether tackle football (and boxing) should be legal for kids under a certain age? It sounds kind of silly now...but it's trending that way.

**wickedsolo** · 05-07-2012, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Players are allowed to choose from three different helmets, one of which is the one to which you linked.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...wrated-helmets

If they're serious about concussions then it shouldn't even be a choice or debate.

The best rated helmet for every player & a mouth piece in for every play. I see several players out on the field not wearing a mouth piece and that has been proven to be an effective measure to reduce the risk of concussions.

**HoustonRaven** · 05-07-2012, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

If they're serious about concussions then it shouldn't even be a choice or debate.

The best rated helmet for every player & a mouth piece in for every play. I see several players out on the field not wearing a mouth piece and that has been proven to be an effective measure to reduce the risk of concussions.

Agreed. Welcome to the world of union negotiations and the CBA.

**HoustonRaven** · 05-07-2012, 03:34 PM

Chris Carter seems skeptical of the lawsuit and it doesnt seem like he's willing to join on the cases agaoinst the league.

Carter said, on Outside the Lines, "I can't blame the NFL for every issue every former player has".

**RavingMad** · 05-07-2012, 03:59 PM

Call me bias but my profession makes me numb to all this "talk". My battle buddies and I know the risk involve when we raise our hands just like these players know the risk when they sign that contract. The difference is they are playing a game and are compensated in a way different level. Go to Bethesda and see the 20 year olds with missing limbs. They are not crying about poor intel/ info or armor. This is life. Risk/reward. Decisions/ consequences.

**Ravenswintitle** · 05-07-2012, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by Thyrl

What I find most interesting is that if we concede that concussions have wrought havoc on the lives of former players, we still can't know when that damage happened. While the NFL features the biggest and strongest and fastest, therefore resulting in the most violent collisions, they're happening to grown ups with fully formed bones and brains. Is that more dangerous than hits that kids suffer at the youth levels while brains are still forming and bones are still soft? All of these NFL players began playing football and taking hits long before their NFL careers began.

While it's easy to poo-poo on the millionaires who weighed out the risk reward equation, most football players never make it to the NFL. How many "regular guys" are walking around with similar conditions due to injuries from their high school or college playing days?

In my opinion this isn't an NFL problem, it's a football problem. Are we ready to address that? Are we ready to acknowledge that we could be damaging our kids for later in life by allowing them to play at the youth levels?

At least the pros we're talking about did get some reward for their services. There are many more who were likely damaged without ever seeing that kind of benefit.

Without youth football, there is no NFL. Without youth boxing, there is no professional boxing. For every pro football player or boxing champion we see, there are tens of thousands of others that took punishment without ever realizing those dreams.

Are we ready yet to start debating whether tackle football (and boxing) should be legal for kids under a certain age? It sounds kind of silly now...but it's trending that way.

It's simply because the NFL is a single entity that generates billions of dollars a year. Much better target than trying to sue each university and/or high school, etc.

As simple as what Willie Sutton said when asked why he robbed banks "because that's where the money is'

**NCRAVEN** · 05-07-2012, 04:20 PM

Another thing they could do if they were serious about limiting concussions is make mouth pieces mandatory. It wouldn't stop them but with the addition of better helmets it can help reduce them.

**BcRaven** · 05-07-2012, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by RavingMad

Call me bias but my profession makes me numb to all this "talk". My battle buddies and I know the risk involve when we raise our hands just like these players know the risk when they sign that contract. The difference is they are playing a game and are compensated in a way different level. Go to Bethesda and see the 20 year olds with missing limbs. They are not crying about poor intel/ info or armor. This is life. Risk/reward. Decisions/ consequences.

R M, I would not change a word of your post... Bc