What makes a 3-4 DE?

[Benny8444]

I keep reading on 3-4 DEs and what players on our roster fit that role as an every down DE.

I still dont understand what the role is and if the Ravens usually Rotate that position depending on down and distance.

To me McBeam seems like a DE more that a NT in our defense?

Also, If McPhee can bulk up to 295 I believe he can be an everydown player as a DE

But I still dont get what makes up a 3-4 DE and what their main role is.

I have noticed they rotate the whole DL except Ngata and when he is out it is for a rest. I hope that changes with McPhee as he seems like he can get to the QB can handle the edge in run defense.

What do u guys think?

[leachisabeast]

Well obviously a 3-4 DE (5 technique) has as different role to a traditional 4-3 DE. The Ravens system is really complicated compared to most NFL defenses, but basically he has to be pretty big, in between the range of 285 and 310 lbs, and between 6'3 and 6'6. He has to be able to be as good as a run defender as a pass rusher. A perfect example of all of this is JJ Watt, the Texans DE. Perfect size at 6'6 and 288 lbs, and is one of the best 5 techniques I've seen in a while.

I can show you his interception clip against the Bengals, but that's not really showing you the true responsibility of a 3-4 DE, so I found a better video here.


As for who starts there for us in 2012, it's most likely going to be rotational between Pernell McPhee (6'3, 280 lbs) and Arthur Jones (6'3, 313 lbs). McPhee is obviously a really good pass rusher, but he needs to bulk up to be an every down 5 tech. Jones is probably a little too big to be a 5 technique and is built like more of a DT, but because of the system the Ravens run, and the scary athleticism Jones has for a guy his size, he has all the potential to excel as a 3-4 DE, and can defend the run pretty well.

[LC_Ravens_87]

I am not sold on McPhee playing the run ala Cory Redding at this point. McPhee gave about 20 lbs to Redding last year, and Redding's arms are way longer than McPhee's.

Redding's job was to holding the point of attack against an Offensive Tackle in the run game and sometimes they slipped him inside as a Tackle on 3rd down and passing situations. McPhee's game/role was just pure explosion, one move and get upfield to rush often against a single Linemen b/c of Suggs.

Trevor Pryce was another large, long armed 3-4 DE but even better pass-rusher than Redding. He again was also great at holding the point in the run game as well which kept him on the field all 3 downs.

IMO, it's Art Jones who is being groomed to replace Redding. He's got the body type to play the run better than McPhee. I don't know where they go with McPhee this year.

[leachisabeast]

I am not sold on McPhee playing the run ala Cory Redding at this point. McPhee gave about 20 lbs to Redding last year, and Redding's arms are way longer than McPhee's.

Redding's job was to holding the point of attack against an Offensive Tackle in the run game and sometimes they slipped him inside as a Tackle on 3rd down and passing situations. McPhee's game/role was just pure explosion, one move and get upfield to rush often against a single Linemen b/c of Suggs.

Trevor Pryce was another large, long armed 3-4 DE but even better pass-rusher than Redding. He again was also great at holding the point in the run game as well which kept him on the field all 3 downs.

IMO, it's Art Jones who is being groomed to replace Redding. He's got the body type to play the run better than McPhee. I don't know where they go with McPhee this year.

Or McPhee could just bulk up a little? That's not a hard task, like I said Jones has the size to be an every down 5 tech, but it's arguable that McPhee has much bigger upside than both Jones and Redding. McPhee is clearly one of our best pass rushers right now, and was only a 5th round rookie in 2011.

[LC_Ravens_87]

Or McPhee could just bulk up a little? That's not a hard task, like I said Jones has the size to be an every down 5 tech, but it's arguable that McPhee has much bigger upside than both Jones and Redding. McPhee is clearly one of our best pass rushers right now, and was only a 5th round rookie in 2011.

Also an option...what do you know about the Wade Phillips version of the 3-4 with the Demarcus Ware, Brooks Reed, Shaune Merriman rush OLB. Could McPhee go the other way, cut some weight, and play that position? Obviously he was a DT in college so it's not likely, but he is such a good pass rusher like you say, how do they maximize that ability beyond his role last year as a down-lineman rusher in the nickel?

[leachisabeast]

Also an option...what do you know about the Wade Phillips version of the 3-4 with the Demarcus Ware, Brooks Reed, Shaune Merriman rush OLB. Could McPhee go the other way, cut some weight, and play that position? Obviously he was a DT in college so it's not likely, but he is such a good pass rusher like you say, how do they maximize that ability beyond his role last year as a down-lineman rusher in the nickel?

Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if he could cut it as a 4-3 DE, or "rush" OLB, but right now we are pretty much stacked at OLB/DE (with Suggs healthy of course) so for now I don't see the point in it, but in answer to your question, yes I think that could be a possibility.

[Rxdoxx]

The way it was taught to me is that it is really not technique, it is position.
You do need a skill set, and an ability to accomplish certain things, but when someone is called a 5 technique, what it means is that they have ability(s) to play lining up on the outside shoulder of the OT.
It doesn't tell me if they have a bull rush, or swim move, or spin, or rip.....

You are hoping for run containment (nothing gets outside), height to make screens and dumps harder, and some weight so that the OT can't easily move them in a direction that they don't want to go. If they have all that, then the better the pass rush the more they get paid. (Sound like I've just described Suggs?)
Kruger couldn't do it heavier but he did come out of that "experiment" year with better pass rushing skills and a spin move that has to be accounted for. So we are hoping he can shine as an OLB who can give some DE functions, which is where the Ravens have mined gold finding tweeners.

I can seethe possibility od McPhee becoming a very effective 5 tech DE as a hybrid DE/NT but never as DE/OLB.

[Boulderraven]

I keep reading on 3-4 DEs and what players on our roster fit that role as an every down DE.

I still dont understand what the role is and if the Ravens usually Rotate that position depending on down and distance.

To me McBeam seems like a DE more that a NT in our defense?

Also, If McPhee can bulk up to 295 I believe he can be an everydown player as a DE

But I still dont get what makes up a 3-4 DE and what their main role is.

I have noticed they rotate the whole DL except Ngata and when he is out it is for a rest. I hope that changes with McPhee as he seems like he can get to the QB can handle the edge in run defense.

What do u guys think?

To answer your question very simply. A 3/4 DE job is very simple but difficult. His job is to hold the line basically and eat of blockers to enable other players to make tackles. If you have a good pair of 3/4 DE's you need good OLB's to make plays in the run game or in the pass rush. If you get any sacks or pressures or tackles from a 3/4 DE that is just gravy. McBean is here to be
A) depth
B) versatility
C) experience
D) competition to push the younger players who are now expected to do more. You want younger players to feel as though their job is in jeopardy so not to get lazy and become
Complacent. You never know how young players who were backups now given a starters role are going to respond. They need to be constantly pushed. BA commented last year and this offseason he felt some of the younger guys werent putting their work in. Competition brings out the best.

[LC_Ravens_87]

Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if he could cut it as a 4-3 DE, or "rush" OLB, but right now we are pretty much stacked at OLB/DE (with Suggs healthy of course) so for now I don't see the point in it, but in answer to your question, yes I think that could be a possibility.

Yeah that is true, but Suggs is going to be missing at least 6 weeks by being PUP'd. And, you have to figure they intend Upshaw to replace JJ on the strong-side, and at this point Kindle and McAdoo don't really count for anything.

Either way, they have three guys who were one-dimensional last year in Kruger, McPhee, and Jones so it will be a while before we figure out how they will be used.

[Benny8444]

It will all be decided in camp and pre season and the job will probably go to the player who can get to the QB and stop the run. My guess is McPhee bulks up to around 290 and gets the job. The other possibility is Art Jones showing improvement and being able to get to the QB as we know he can stop the run. There will be some interesting camp battles. I believe the job goes to McPhee asuming he bulks up to 290-295.

[BcRaven]

Arthur Jones on 1st/2nd downs replaced by McPhee on 3rd downs. That is my simplistic answer... Bc

[Benny8444]

That would make sense if Art Jones can get to the QB up the middle.

[Cj34]

I am not sold on McPhee playing the run ala Cory Redding at this point. McPhee gave about 20 lbs to Redding last year, and Redding's arms are way longer than McPhee's.

Redding's job was to holding the point of attack against an Offensive Tackle in the run game and sometimes they slipped him inside as a Tackle on 3rd down and passing situations. McPhee's game/role was just pure explosion, one move and get upfield to rush often against a single Linemen b/c of Suggs.

Trevor Pryce was another large, long armed 3-4 DE but even better pass-rusher than Redding. He again was also great at holding the point in the run game as well which kept him on the field all 3 downs.

IMO, it's Art Jones who is being groomed to replace Redding. He's got the body type to play the run better than McPhee. I don't know where they go with McPhee this year.

While I agree that McPhee needs to bulk up to see the field on 1st down, 2nd down, and short yardage his arm length is not a problem. It's an asset. His wingspan is 81 1/4" which is well longer then most tackles he'll face. His arm length is 34 3/8". For comparison - Matt Kalil measures at 34 3/8". Joe Thomas 33 1/4". There aren't many OT's that I found with longer arms. Ryan Clady with 36" and Andrew Whitworth 35" were a couple. FWIW Cory Redding has a 33 1/2" arm length.

[LC_Ravens_87]

While I agree that McPhee needs to bulk up to see the field on 1st down, 2nd down, and short yardage his arm length is not a problem. It's an asset. His wingspan is 81 1/4" which is well longer then most tackles he'll face. His arm length is 34 3/8". For comparison - Matt Kalil measures at 34 3/8". Joe Thomas 33 1/4". There aren't many OT's that I found with longer arms. Ryan Clady with 36" and Andrew Whitworth 35" were a couple. FWIW Cory Redding has a 33 1/2" arm length.

Fair enough. Obviously the ol' eyeball test needs some work...McPhee's a freak then because I mean Joe Thomas is 6'6". 4 inches on McPhee and yet his arms are a full inch shorter.

[TheJoeFlaccoShow]

I keep reading on 3-4 DEs and what players on our roster fit that role as an every down DE.

I still dont understand what the role is and if the Ravens usually Rotate that position depending on down and distance.

To me McBeam seems like a DE more that a NT in our defense?

Also, If McPhee can bulk up to 295 I believe he can be an everydown player as a DE

But I still dont get what makes up a 3-4 DE and what their main role is.

I have noticed they rotate the whole DL except Ngata and when he is out it is for a rest. I hope that changes with McPhee as he seems like he can get to the QB can handle the edge in run defense.

What do u guys think?

Their main role is to stop the run and occupy blockers, anything beyond that is gravy. Sacks and QB pressures are a bonus.

McPhee is a guy who was a 4-3 end in college and would be hard pressed to add weight to his frame, he just isn' that wide body type who could do it easily. Usually small(er) 4-3 DT make the transition from college to a 3-4 end, rarely do 4-3 ends. The reason why McPhee went in the 5th was because he is the classic example of a "tweener".

He measured 6'3 278 at the combine and would need to add at least 20lbs to that frame to cut it as an every down 3-4 end. I think the Ravens like him just where he is, and prefer a bigger body like Redding or Jones out there. McPhee would just get worked in the run game and that is the main responsibility for that position.

His role is perfect and I don't see a change coming anytime soon, that is Jones job to lose.

[leachisabeast]

Either way, we have some very good competition and camp battles to be had here. Competition is always good for a SB contender.