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  1. #73

    Re: Obama about to announce support of marriage rights for all?



    So folks who disagree with ExtraPoint are old in either mind or body?

    Just like a thief to insult anybody who disagrees with them.
    This is a novel I was asked to proofread. The author is giving 10% of the profits to kidney research, which is a big deal in the Darb household. Fair warning; it's a fantasy novel, and the main characters are lesbians. It's three bucks on kindle from Amazon.http://www.amazon.com/WINDOWS-BROKEN...ken+fairy+tale




  2. #74
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    Re: Obama about to announce support of marriage rights for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Yawn.

    Marriage shouldn't even be something the government sanctions. Gay, straight or otherwise. If two consenting adults want to marry, then they should be allowed without government intrusion or approval.

    It's a cheap political trick and the timing of it couldn't be more suspect.



    Nothing but trying to fuel political agenda here.
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  3. #75

    Re: Obama about to announce support of marriage rights for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by darb72 View Post
    So folks who disagree with ExtraPoint are old in either mind or body?
    It has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with me personally. I'm one person, as entitled to my point of view as you are yours. But my view is that anyone who believes that the law should apply differently to different segments of the law-abiding populace is however exercising a dated ideology and displays an obvious lack of humanity or empathy for his fellow man. I find it inexcusable, though like I said, it's your right to say or feel whatever you want. America is weird like that.

    Just like a thief to insult anybody who disagrees with them.
    Why don't you point out your disagreement with my fundamental argument rather than accuse me of something you yourself just did.




  4. #76
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    Re: Obama about to announce support of marriage rights for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirdowski View Post
    Cogent and agreeable till you were instinctively forced to bee-line toward ridiculousness like a honeybee toward a daylily. Damn Liberal impulses.



    Senior Citizens account for roughly 12% of the population. Even assuming every one of them was conservative, pretty sure they weren't the only ones holding things back.


    Being what would be considered as a "young person" I'm embarrassed by the general way politics is not only viewed, but handled by the majority of young people. See OWS. A fundamental understanding of government and its role is receding further with each generation. The majority of young people from my experience prefer to receive their political updates via Stephen Colbert and John Stewart.

    It's always comical seeing a liberal attempt to encapsulate everything that embodies conservativism by using anything Palin. Her daughter could not be more irrelevant in the mind of conservatives, especially young conservatives.
    A lot of that has to do with news outlets like Fox being extremely biased. Guys like Bill O'Reilly and those twits operate under the "I am loud therefor I am right" mantra and frankly most people of my generation and younger are sick of it all.

    I'd rather watch Bill Maher, Jon Stewart, and Stephen Colbert any day of the week because even though some of those guys are admittedly very liberal (Bill Maher in particular) he's got no problem calling a spade a spade regardless of their political agenda. Or better yet, bbc.com.

    Did you ever see the movie "Man of The Year" ? Far fetched, I know, but is a good representation of modern politics and the media that fuels it.

    I appreciate those comedians who have established how hypocritical and narrow minded the mainstream media is. I appreciate their ability to be impartial and make fun of dems and reps.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger


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    http://fatherhoodrules.com




  5. #77
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    Re: Obama about to announce support of marriage rights for all?

    Personally, I kind of look at marriage licenses like a driver's license.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger


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  6. #78
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    Re: Obama about to announce support of marriage rights for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    I would guess he lied the first time.


    (pretty anti-climatic, huh?)
    Which pretty much would support the notion that the only reason he's making these claims now is to try and fuel his political agenda.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger


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  7. #79

    Re: Obama about to announce support of marriage rights for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Which pretty much would support the notion that the only reason he's making these claims now is to try and fuel his political agenda.
    Every president's decisions are evaluated in a political realm and inform their political future. That's the way it goes when we allow our leaders to run for a second term.

    But I think the question is not whether or not this was political, or even politically-motivated. That tends to detract from the message itself. Most people understand that it is on some level done with political considerations in mind.

    The question is whether or not it's right.

    The reality is, this issue is very unlikely to move the needle with respect to President Obama's re-election bid. It will motivate the already motivated bases of both parties, and give independents/undecideds something else to consider in their thought processes. Personally I think that this benefits the President, but I'm in the minority that believes he's going to win rather comfortably anyway.

    Most progressives accept that the President has felt this way for a while (evidence of which dates back fifteen years), and are proud of him for putting his neck on the line faced with so much opposition on the issue. As NCRAVEN pointed out, this mindset is being rejected in voting at the state level, so it does come with plenty of risk, including fueling the perception that it was strictly motivated by politics. But most conservatives are skeptical of the President's every move anyway (which I think speaks to a broader point), or they just fundamentally disagree with him on the issue.

    So again, I don't think this comes down to politics so much as whether or not his position is at it's core, right. I like driver's license analogy.




  8. #80
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    Re: Obama about to announce support of marriage rights for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheExtraPoint View Post
    I don't think I'm breaking any news here to let you know that your opinion is not that of the party you seem destined to vote for given your unrelenting opposition to the President. It is so nuanced and frankly irrelevant in the mainstream dialogue and in this discussion that it's almost not worht responding to, except to say that no one who supports same sex marriage believes that any religious leader or institution should be FORCED to marry someone who doesn't want to marry them. The notion that same sex couples would even WANT to be married by a priest for example who views their union as sinful is beyond ridiculous.
    Well I don't really disagree with anything you've said here, I would just like to point out,that in California and North Carolina there are more registered democrats than republicans. So while the party can say they'll endorse this that or the other that they really have no control over, they people that vote for those parties are both against it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheExtraPoint View Post
    No. I think that conservative Republicans are against gay marriage. You are either for it or against it. No amount of nuance in your view of what marriage or unions should be will conceal your essential view of this subject. So far as I can tell, you are not for it given the circumstances as they stand today.
    Well, you would be wrong. Since the government IS involved, they/we need to extend the same right/privileges to everyone. Just because I never said I did or not, doesn't mean you get to assume because I am more conservative that I would be against it, more painting with that broad brush. Try asking next time

    My preference is that they have no say regardless of same-sex or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheExtraPoint View Post
    Fact is, American citizens historically do not vote for civil rights. History in this regard is overwhelming. It usually requires government leadership to accomplish anything in the arena of civil rights. That is my chief criticism of the President in this instance; Not going far enough.
    Your fact did not address mine. Your fact, while in a sense (sense our government is by the people)is correct. My fact was that it was not just republicans who voted for the legal definition to be between a man and women, democrats did too.. As I said before Cali and NC both have more registered Dems and both voted for BHO.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheExtraPoint View Post
    I know this was addressed to Galen, but the reality is that government IS involved in marriage, and the conversation about whether or not same sex couples can by married by law is totally separate from the validity or construction of the institution of marriage itself as it relates to government or laws.
    I pretty much already addressed this. Like I said since they are involved, they need to give everyone the privilege of marriage, whihc getting out of the marriage business would accomplish the same thing.
    Last edited by NCRAVEN; 05-12-2012 at 03:24 PM.




  9. #81
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    Re: Obama about to announce support of marriage rights for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheExtraPoint View Post
    Every president's decisions are evaluated in a political realm and inform their political future. That's the way it goes when we allow our leaders to run for a second term.

    But I think the question is not whether or not this was political, or even politically-motivated. That tends to detract from the message itself. Most people understand that it is on some level done with political considerations in mind.

    The question is whether or not it's right.

    The reality is, this issue is very unlikely to move the needle with respect to President Obama's re-election bid. It will motivate the already motivated bases of both parties, and give independents/undecideds something else to consider in their thought processes. Personally I think that this benefits the President, but I'm in the minority that believes he's going to win rather comfortably anyway.

    Most progressives accept that the President has felt this way for a while (evidence of which dates back fifteen years), and are proud of him for putting his neck on the line faced with so much opposition on the issue. As NCRAVEN pointed out, this mindset is being rejected in voting at the state level, so it does come with plenty of risk, including fueling the perception that it was strictly motivated by politics. But most conservatives are skeptical of the President's every move anyway (which I think speaks to a broader point), or they just fundamentally disagree with him on the issue.

    So again, I don't think this comes down to politics so much as whether or not his position is at it's core, right. I like driver's license analogy.
    You know, for me at least, it doesn't matter if it's right or not. I just don't think big government should really have much say at all when it comes to things like state-issued licenses. I'm pretty anti-big government anyway though...I just think that a massive centralized federal government getting involved in things that they really shouldn't - or don't need to - just complicates and makes things more expensive than what they should be (by expensive, I don't necessarily even mean monetarily).

    If he really believes that, then great, it doesn't bother me in the least. I just think it's a little shady that he's not given any thing close to this much of a ringing endorsement on the topic up until this point. Then again though, I think most politicians are shady.
    Last edited by wickedsolo; 05-12-2012 at 04:06 PM.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger


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  10. #82

    Re: Obama about to announce support of marriage rights for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheExtraPoint View Post
    It has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with me personally. I'm one person, as entitled to my point of view as you are yours. But my view is that anyone who believes that the law should apply differently to different segments of the law-abiding populace is however exercising a dated ideology and displays an obvious lack of humanity or empathy for his fellow man. I find it inexcusable, though like I said, it's your right to say or feel whatever you want. America is weird like that.
    Yes, it has everything to do with disagreeing with you. You said the people who keep this from happening are... Since I disagree, you're saying I'm old in mind/body.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheExtraPoint View Post
    Why don't you point out your disagreement with my fundamental argument rather than accuse me of something you yourself just did.
    I have no interest in arguing with you because I don't respect you.
    This is a novel I was asked to proofread. The author is giving 10% of the profits to kidney research, which is a big deal in the Darb household. Fair warning; it's a fantasy novel, and the main characters are lesbians. It's three bucks on kindle from Amazon.http://www.amazon.com/WINDOWS-BROKEN...ken+fairy+tale




  11. #83

    Re: Obama about to announce support of marriage rights for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Well, you would be wrong. Since the government IS involved, they/we need to extend the same right/privileges to everyone. Just because I never said I did or not, doesn't mean you get to assume because I am more conservative that I would be against it, more painting with that broad brush. Try asking next time
    I shouldn't have put words in your mouth, so I apologize for that.




  12. #84
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    Re: Obama about to announce support of marriage rights for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheExtraPoint View Post
    I shouldn't have put words in your mouth, so I apologize for that.
    It's all good, you did leave a little wiggle room in there.

    You still have not acknowledge though, that is democrat voters who are voting against gay marriage as well.




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