OBY rallies Christian right/Mitt says thanks

[AirFlacco]

Getting back to the topic, OBY even turned the African American churches vs him.
They feel like he just kicked his base in the teeth.

This link is from Baltimore. Like I said, you can't be a Christian and be for same sex
marriage.

____________________________________
“He has said to his base, African-Americans, ‘I am going against your beliefs and your thoughts,’” Burns said.
_______________________________________

I doubt they will vote vs him but they are definitely vs his statement like the
true Christians they are.

___________________________________
“God said in every home, there needs to be a representation of his glory through manhood and femininity,” Pastor Harry Jackson, Hope Christian Church in Beltsville, sai
_______________________________________

Well said my friend.






http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2012/0...vember-ballot/

[NCRAVEN]

This link is from Baltimore. Like I said, you can't be a Christian and be for same sex marriage.

I've got to disagree with you here to a point.

Some people are not necessarily "for" same-sex marriage. Some people are "for" the government not treating people differently.

What I don't understand about people who are against same-sex marriage, is:

1. Why do other people care, isn't what they do between them and God?
2. The bible says "For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son, and that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have ever lasting life" there is no qualifier there that says "unless your gay"
3. If marriage is the joining of man and a woman before God and is the only valid marriage, then people who are gay, when they marry, it wouldn't be valid, would it? - so what does it matter?

Let people do what they want, like I said if government got of of marriage altogether this whole mess would be solved.

[AirFlacco]

I've got to disagree with you here to a point.

Some people are not necessarily "for" same-sex marriage. Some people are "for" the government not treating people differently.

What I don't understand about people who are against same-sex marriage, is:

1. Why do other people care, isn't what they do between them and God?
2. The bible says "For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son, and that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have ever lasting life" there is no qualifier there that says "unless your gay"
3. If marriage is the joining of man and a woman before God and is the only valid marriage, then people who are gay, when they marry, it wouldn't be valid, would it? - so what does it matter?

Let people do what they want, like I said if government got of of marriage altogether this whole mess would be solved.

I agree 100% with the gov't staying out of it but the mess would still be there because
gays would stil be trying to get married. And no one has touched on multiple marriage
partners. I posted a link years ago with a Belgium judge allowed 3 partners to get married
and it will be more than that.

Great point about the gov't and yes God did say that but he also condemned the
act with the verses I posted in both the old Testament and new Testament. He destroyed thousands
of gays around the Dead Sea area. If it's an abomination with God then we should be vs it too.

Also, as Greg always says, there's the children to consider who have same sex parents. They get
hurt and abused. Proven stattistics show they do better when mother and fathers as role models.


All these churches are upset over our "first gay pesident." And that's what a gay
writer calls him. See NEWSWEEK thread.



GOD LOVES THE SINNER BUT HATES THE SIN

[Sirdowski]

I don't see what's false about it.

It works to explain your perspective, but you can't legitimately compare sobriety/addiction with homosexuality. It's a false equivalence.

[Sirdowski]

I've got to disagree with you here to a point.

Some people are not necessarily "for" same-sex marriage. Some people are "for" the government not treating people differently.

What I don't understand about people who are against same-sex marriage, is:

1. Why do other people care, isn't what they do between them and God?
2. The bible says "For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son, and that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have ever lasting life" there is no qualifier there that says "unless your gay"
3. If marriage is the joining of man and a woman before God and is the only valid marriage, then people who are gay, when they marry, it wouldn't be valid, would it? - so what does it matter?

Let people do what they want, like I said if government got of of marriage altogether this whole mess would be solved.

My perspective as well.

[pyite32]

"Do not judge so that you will not be judged. "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. "Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye? "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

[NCRAVEN]

I agree 100% with the gov't staying out of it but the mess would still be there because gays would stil be trying to get married. And no one has touhed on multiple marriage partners. I posted a link years ago with a Belgium judge allowed 3 partners to get married and it will be more than that.

If there are churches that would marry same-sex couples then so be it. Multiple spouses is a little tougher because they amount of kids the can bring into what is almost a certainty to be a F**KED up relationship(s).

Also, as Greg always says, there's the children who have same sex parents. They get hurt and abused.

I wasn't for gay couples adopting, because the kids would get teased very badly, then I thought but at least they're in a loving home where they are wanted, so I thought it would be better then the system.

I was listening to the radio the other night on the way to the store and a guy name Jason Lewis who has a talk show out of Minnesota had a caller that grew up in the system at a boys home and the only kid/kids that got teased worse than him were ones with gay parents. He said the teasing got so bad that a kid hung himself at 15.

To be hones whether it is with same-sex couples or multiple spouses the kids would be the ones that suffer (not in every case all the time), and now I am not sure what would be better, the occasional teasing and bullying or the system....

[AirFlacco]

If there are churches that would marry same-sex couples then so be it. Multiple spouses is a little tougher because they amount of kids the can bring into what is almost a certainty to be a F**KED up relationship(s).

I posted about the largest gay church in the country in Seattle. It's pastor is a former
gay and most of its members are former gays. They do admit gay couples as members
but I don't know if he will marry them. He's trying to get them to stop their sin, repent
and accept Christ as most have done.

The Espiscopol church is big on admitting gay pastors and so is the Presbyterian church
to an extent and I think the Methodist. there are liberal churches just like there are
liberal politicians.

Like you said, so be it.


I wasn't for gay couples adopting, because the kids would get teased very badly, then I thought but at least they're in a loving home where they are wanted, so I thought it would be better then the system.

I was listening to the radio the other night on the way to the store and a guy name Jason Lewis who has a talk show out of Minnesota had a caller that grew up in the system at a boys home and the only kid/kids that got teased worse than him were ones with gay parents. He said the teasing got so bad that a kid hung himself at 15.

To be hones whether it is with same-sex couples or multiple spouses the kids would be the ones that suffer (not in every case all the time), and now I am not sure what would be better, the occasional teasing and bullying or the system....

Both to be sure.I'll have to look it up but there are stats showing exactly how much
more kids are abused with gay parents.

Great post NC..

[AirFlacco]

Here you go NC. I found this link that says gay men are more apt to abuse children more than straight men and he lists Foley as an example. You can also list Sandusky of Penn State.


http://mediamatters.org/research/200610040014

[CptJesus]

Here you go NC. I found this link that says gay men are more apt to abuse children more than straight men and he lists Foley as an example. You can also list Sandusky of Penn State.


http://mediamatters.org/research/200610040014

Did you even read the article you linked?

a study by psychotherapist Richard Sipe found "no tie between sexual abuse and homosexuality.

In fact, a 1995 study released by the American Psychological Association found that "gay men are no more likely than heterosexual men to perpetrate child sexual abuse";

figures showing "male pedophiles are more likely to molest boys than girls" are not evidence that gay men are more likely to abuse children than straight men, because they conflate men who abuse boys with gay men.

Oh, and not to mention the TITLE of the article

Perkins claimed that "homosexual men are more likely to abuse children than straight men"; experts disagree

Blind bigotry is awesome, so awesome that it prevents you from even reading properly.

[AirFlacco]

Speaking of Christian right, DEMs are now besides themselves that Rush Limbaugh was just voted into Missouri's Hall of Fame.

This has just been a bad two weeks for the DEMs.





http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2012/05/...rush-his-bust/

[AirFlacco]

I just stole this post from another board to post here. It gives a chilling argument about gays and children.

I differ with the line at the bottom that asks are we ready as a society to
ruin children's lives and he answers probably not.

According to the link I posted above we already are.


------------------------------------------------------
The bigger elephant in the room on this issue is children/adoption. There is a long history of issues dealing with couples that have children and split, where the financially better off individual will owe child support - as they should, since they are still responsible as a bilogical parent (you brought them into this world, it is your responsibility to ensure that they are prepared to offer it something). How do you handle those issues in a same sex couple? There is no paternity/maternity claim (depending on the nature of the relationship). No DNA test will confirm the non-parenting spouse had anything to do with that kid. What does this do to the child? And yes, I understand that the same could apply to a heterosexual couple, but again, there are legal precedents for this scenario, and it's difficult to fake DNA test results.

Those are some difficult questions to answer, not to mention whether or not a sizeable comparison of children raised in a homosexual-headed household are better/worse off than children of a traditional family (legally bound mother and father raising their own biological children). But are we as a society willing to possibly ruin children's lives over this? Probably not. Hence the massive backlash against this movement.
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!!!

[darb72]

And you my friend, when faced with a message that is threatening to your gods, slay the messenger. You are the antagonist in the mind of Pierre Boulle; desperately protecting yourself from stumbling upon a truth which may force you to sweep up your little collection of gods. Attack the theory first but after the theory takes hold, attack the source of the theory.

Man can't know truth because he is a prisoner of his own subjective experience yet, somehow, his wriggles free from his intellectual shackles long enough to know god. God is truth because I think it. "Cogito, ergo Deus est" Your own mocking of intellectual thought must wrap around like an Escher enigma to leave you even doubting your gods in the end. No? Or you haven't seen that fateful outcome?

Or does it suffice to sit around in Wednesday night men's bible class reconfirming your own beliefs that I think god, therefore god exists and that is somehow different?

The truth is you can't let go of your superstitions long enough to stare into the existential abyss that is life. Its too deep...to dark to entertain the truth that we come into life alone and leave it alone. Don't step on that crack! We die and decay like all the other life forms we witness, yet, our life form is different, it must be! We must rise to that eye in the sky that is always there, no? We are created in the image of our creator and are placed in the center. Alas...the center moves or was never there? What are we then? We look like beasts but don't go there. Are we beasts?

Please Sir...give me permission not to think those forbidden thoughts. I need god, or else I'm no greater than a leaf.

To be able to understand our own ultimate purposelessness is the only thing that truly separates us from that which surrounds us; that is the fate of man. Alone, we either come to that conclusion or defer it to the collection plate.

I wonder if this outlook is why the thief is such a miserable person? Of course, if I were him and faced an eternity of living a life that he has chosen I'd want to get it over with as soon as possible too.

[CptJesus]

I just stole this post from another board to post here. It gives a chilling argument about gays and children.

I differ with the line at the bottom that asks are we ready as a society to
ruin children's lives and he answers probably not.

According to the link I posted above we already are.


------------------------------------------------------
The bigger elephant in the room on this issue is children/adoption. There is a long history of issues dealing with couples that have children and split, where the financially better off individual will owe child support - as they should, since they are still responsible as a bilogical parent (you brought them into this world, it is your responsibility to ensure that they are prepared to offer it something). How do you handle those issues in a same sex couple? There is no paternity/maternity claim (depending on the nature of the relationship). No DNA test will confirm the non-parenting spouse had anything to do with that kid. What does this do to the child? And yes, I understand that the same could apply to a heterosexual couple, but again, there are legal precedents for this scenario, and it's difficult to fake DNA test results.

Those are some difficult questions to answer, not to mention whether or not a sizeable comparison of children raised in a homosexual-headed household are better/worse off than children of a traditional family (legally bound mother and father raising their own biological children). But are we as a society willing to possibly ruin children's lives over this? Probably not. Hence the massive backlash against this movement.
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!!!

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2010/a...dy-083010.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1208659.html

http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...994480,00.html

Here's a great article showing that the current legal system is the ONLY cause of the problems with gay couples divorcing and child custody issues.

http://www.aarp.org/relationships/lo...divorce.3.html

I could go on and on with more links, but I know you're just going to ignore my post anyways, since you're clearly crazy and ignore any contradictory claims to your own.

Keep parroting complete falsehoods and stereotypes like you always do buddy.

[Galen Sevinne]

So what happens to that uncontrollable chemical process when a gay man changes his way and marrys a woman? Did it simply not exist? I don't think so either. It's a psychological complication that can be overcome

.

I mostly appreciate the perspective you bring to this forum. While your views/opinions are antithetical to mine on most every account discussed at least here, you are one of the few who appear to read more than just Drudge et al. and/or the latest conservative pundits NY Times "best seller". All of that being said, saying homosexuality is a "psychological complication that can be overcome" is not only wrong but is deeply irresponsible. I don't know what your daily life is like but if you serve as any type of mentor or role model to kids and you are about "doing no harm" as a minimum standard, you should reconsider your position here.

As I mentioned before but will again because you seem like a caring person as well as someone with strong persuasive skills. I have worked with numerous teenagers that have "come out" in my office. Many of these kids have expressed suicidal ideation as a product of this process. Most of those who have had suicidal thoughts report a history of bullying around their noticeable differences and/or report a gay intolerant family with stronger than normal religious convictions.

Homosexuality is not a psychological complication nor is it easily overcome. You can deny the science behind evolution all you want and if you are wrong, there is little impact. Declaring homosexuality as a psychological complication that can be overcome can be extremely damaging especially when in the context of a religious community that also pairs homosexuality as an act against god and a sin. Yes, there is lacking strong empirical support for homosexuality being a congenital condition but likewise, there is lacking strong empirical support for it being a product of the environment. There are conflicting twin studies looking at genetic precursers but there are more potentials other than just genetics in regards to congenital determinants. There is research looking at attributes of the mother from particular hormones to activation/deactivation of X chromosomes.

Either way homosexuality has not been recognized by the APA has a psychological disorder since the early 1970's. It is unclear what you mean by a "complication" and you might not be referring to an actual "disorder". The only complication I can see from homosexuality is society's response. As for it being "overcome" it is becoming increasingly recognized as unethical to practice reparative or conversion therapies. I had a professor in one of my grad programs in the early 90's who practiced conversion therapies in the 1960's but later abandoned them due to a host of reasons. Not only is it considered unethical but there is little evidence that it is effective especially in the long term. Most studies that show effectivness don't look at the longitudinal effectiveness, are mostly self-report studies and are mostly of a population with higher than normal religious zeal. When you control for those attributes of the studies, there lacks any significant change.

Believe what you want to believe and practice what you want to practice in your own life but our society, with plenty of help from religion, has made being gay a shameful thing to many people. To suggest that someone can change if they try hard enough and then to have that person experience repeated failure only adds to their shame and feelings of incompetency. You might wax poetically about Jesus your savior and how he has brought meaning into your life but, unless you're holding back on something and with all due respect, you are immensely unqualified to make such grandiose statements suggesting that sexual orientation has anything to do with a person's psychology and that it can be overcome. You risk further alienating some young kid struggling with what it means to be him or her in a critical developmental stage of their life because of your own belief which you can't either confirm nor deny.

[AirFlacco]

Galen - And you're the only one who gets your news from MSNBC and
the white house site and then spin it. It's no wonder you usually don't
post links while pulling info out of your arse but if one reads MSNBC he
will see where your crap comes from.

[AirFlacco]

BTW, the Tony Perkins link I posted said experts disagree?

LOL - Chris Mathews is no expert and neither are the others. That is the joke of it. He's more homer than Galen and more bigoted towards women with even 25 women groups attacking the likes of other experts like Maher another so called expert.

______________________________

“The Democrat Party of Alabama is showing their true values and lack of a moral compass by promoting a man like Bill Maher,

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/15/al...#ixzz1uuteEIhd





Talk about bigotry.


http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/15/al...er-fundraiser/

[wickedsolo]

Here you go NC. I found this link that says gay men are more apt to abuse children more than straight men and he lists Foley as an example. You can also list Sandusky of Penn State.


http://mediamatters.org/research/200610040014

This is no different than saying that blacks are more likely to commit crimes.

Horrific commentary dude. There's no way that you can actually believe that there is even a smidgeon of truth in the comparison of gay men and child abuse.

[wickedsolo]

BTW, the Tony Perkins link I posted said experts disagree?

LOL - Chris Mathews is no expert and neither are the others. That is the joke of it. He's more homer than Galen and more bigoted towards women with even 25 women groups attacking the likes of other experts like Maher another so called expert.

______________________________

“The Democrat Party of Alabama is showing their true values and lack of a moral compass by promoting a man like Bill Maher,

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/15/al...#ixzz1uuteEIhd





Talk about bigotry.


http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/15/al...er-fundraiser/

Dude, it's a fundraiser and Bill Maher is the entertainment.

[AirFlacco]

He's also made many political remarks about women including Palin using words that would get us banned here and all that before blaming Rush on his remarks with the chick
from Georgetown.

________________________________________
Maher, though, took Rosen's comments a step further.
"What she meant to say, I think, was that Ann Romney has never gotten her ass out of the house to work," Maher said.
_______________________________________


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...#ixzz1uwEZceAA

Don't kid yourself - he's more political than entertainment, same as Rush.
He even gave OBY $1M.