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Thread: Jacoby Jones

  1. #25

    Re: Jacoby Jones



    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I think you'd be hard pressed to find any fan on this board who would claim that the young receivers DONT have to prove themselves before taking the field. What myself and a lot of other folks don't get is that we draft these young receivers and then they NEVER see the field. Ever. There is no way they are that bad in practice, otherwise they'd be cut and wouldn't make it out of pre-season.

    My comment on the Steelers with Brown and Sanders was that they were given an opportunity to come in and play a handful of snaps during real game situations and they proved that they could hack it.
    NO

    NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!

    You just assume that Brown and Sanders just sat around in practice looking as good (bad) as Doss, DWill, Harper, whoever? Do you seriously have no concept of how absolutely wrong that is?

    All you need to see is how well all of the receivers the Ravens have drafted have performed after leaving the Ravens. Mark Clayton had the best showing of them, performing well in five games with the Rams before suffering a terrible injury, and now we'll likely never know whether he really could have been something with that team or not. Brandon Stokely had one 1k yard season. In Indi. With Peyton Manning. He also had three others with him that weren't close to as good.

    Pretty much every other Ravens draft pick at receiver has either never found another team interested in them, or has flopped on whatever team they went to. That's not an accident. That's not them not getting a shot. That's them sucking so bad, they don't deserve to get on the field!

    Guys that get drafted in mid-to-late rounds, come out of nowhere and shock on the field, don't actually come out of nowhere and shock on the field. They show off something at practice that makes a coach say "Hunh, maybe I ought to get that guy on the field and see if he can make some plays in a game."

    Because in the NFL, I promise you ... I lock-it-up guarantee you ... not one single coach says "Hunh, I know [receiver X] hasn't really done jack shit in practice, but maybe I should get him about 10-15 snaps next week in a game just to see what he can do."

    - C -
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  2. #26

    Re: Jacoby Jones

    Quote Originally Posted by psuasskicker View Post
    NO

    NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!

    You just assume that Brown and Sanders just sat around in practice looking as good (bad) as Doss, DWill, Harper, whoever? Do you seriously have no concept of how absolutely wrong that is?

    All you need to see is how well all of the receivers the Ravens have drafted have performed after leaving the Ravens. Mark Clayton had the best showing of them, performing well in five games with the Rams before suffering a terrible injury, and now we'll likely never know whether he really could have been something with that team or not. Brandon Stokely had one 1k yard season. In Indi. With Peyton Manning. He also had three others with him that weren't close to as good.

    Pretty much every other Ravens draft pick at receiver has either never found another team interested in them, or has flopped on whatever team they went to. That's not an accident. That's not them not getting a shot. That's them sucking so bad, they don't deserve to get on the field!

    Guys that get drafted in mid-to-late rounds, come out of nowhere and shock on the field, don't actually come out of nowhere and shock on the field. They show off something at practice that makes a coach say "Hunh, maybe I ought to get that guy on the field and see if he can make some plays in a game."

    Because in the NFL, I promise you ... I lock-it-up guarantee you ... not one single coach says "Hunh, I know [receiver X] hasn't really done jack shit in practice, but maybe I should get him about 10-15 snaps next week in a game just to see what he can do."

    - C -
    Couldn't have said it better myself.

    This coaching staff is not going to put guys in the game that haven't shown they can do it in practice, and they aren't going to just "throw them in there to see what they can do" either. The coaching staff and FO would love for nothing better than for us to have young guys step up.

    Playing time is EARNED. When they earn it, they will get PT.




  3. #27
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    Re: Jacoby Jones

    Quote Originally Posted by psuasskicker View Post
    NO

    NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!

    You just assume that Brown and Sanders just sat around in practice looking as good (bad) as Doss, DWill, Harper, whoever? Do you seriously have no concept of how absolutely wrong that is?
    I'm not assuming anything. What I know is that they were given an opportunity during game-time situations. Obviously they showed during practices that they should be given snaps during games.

    What I'm inferring (and perhaps it is wrong or incorrect, but whatever...it's my opinion and if you don't care for it then sorry cool guy) is that the young receivers the Ravens have are performing enough during practices and pre-season to make the team. Torrey stunk last pre-season. He was fast, yes, but his routes were really bad and his hands were pretty inconsistent (obviously largely due to lacking confidence, getting in his own way, etc). You learn more about players during game-time situations than you do during practice. You can have guys that kill it during practice and then on Sundays just can't do it and conversely you have guys who just don't practice well, but come game time they are on point. The only thing Torrey consistently proved last year was that he was stupid fast and was the deep threat that they had hoped they were drafting. He didn't really start to put it all together until after that Steelers game where he dropped multiple passes including what would have been a game-winning TD pass. He got his "swag" that game. He got confidence that game and the coaching staff got confidence in him. What I can't wrap my head around is why there is such an inherent method in the Ravens organization (not just on offense) to keep young guys on the bench as long as possible. Again, Steve Bisciotti commented on this after the season. Ozzie did as well. I'm not saying that Tandon or LaQuan have or have not earned playing time, but what I am saying is that I don't see why - as a coach - you wouldn't want to see what you've got in a real game situation.

    All you need to see is how well all of the receivers the Ravens have drafted have performed after leaving the Ravens. Mark Clayton had the best showing of them, performing well in five games with the Rams before suffering a terrible injury, and now we'll likely never know whether he really could have been something with that team or not. Brandon Stokely had one 1k yard season. In Indi. With Peyton Manning. He also had three others with him that weren't close to as good.

    Pretty much every other Ravens draft pick at receiver has either never found another team interested in them, or has flopped on whatever team they went to. That's not an accident. That's not them not getting a shot. That's them sucking so bad, they don't deserve to get on the field!
    Dude, I get that. I'm not arguing that. It's very well known (and I even commented on it earlier in this thread) that the Ravens scouting department (for whatever reason) cannot draft receivers to save their lives. It's so bad I feel like they should be trading draft picks to other teams for their receivers OR actually pony'ing up money to sign a young free agent receiver that is a legit receiver (i.e. not Jacoby Jones). They tried to do that last year with Lee Evans, but obviously that backfired.

    Again, this is why I 100% feel that they need to re-evaluate their receivers coach and draft process for receivers because they just can't seem to get anywhere with it. When there has really only been 1 solid receiver drafted (2 if you count Clayton) in the past decade, then there is something very, very, very wrong when it comes to evaluating receivers.


    Because in the NFL, I promise you ... I lock-it-up guarantee you ... not one single coach says "Hunh, I know [receiver X] hasn't really done jack shit in practice, but maybe I should get him about 10-15 snaps next week in a game just to see what he can do."

    - C -
    This made me laugh because it is 100% taking what I said completely out of context and/or twisting my words so you can use CAPS!!!!

    Come on man, lighten up.

    Show me in this thread where I stated that receivers don't need to earn playing time and where receivers don't have to produce during practice in order to get game time.

    All I've said is practice is all well and good (obviously good practice = playing time), but it's really hard to gauge what you've got until they are in a live situation against an unfamiliar opponent and the Ravens seemingly refuse to put young guys out on the field regardless of how well they're practicing.
    Last edited by wickedsolo; 06-04-2012 at 06:50 AM.
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  4. #28

    Re: Jacoby Jones

    by all reports, Doss and even Williams, are very good in practice. its not like theyre dropping balls left and right like Torrey was, who actually got the bulk of PT anyway. I dont think there was one guy that said last years preseason that Torrey outplayed Doss. Not One. Because he didnt. he didnt prove jack shit in the preseason he just happened to be the only speed guy on the team after Evans went down. Boldin goes down instead, were probably talking about Doss being our next #1 WR. I dont think people realize how much you learn from game experience either. Its one thing to get on the field, you have to show a certain ability in practice which nobody here is arguing, but once on the field, you learn and enhance your game. Our young WRs that are showing signs but not getting PT are having their growth stunted, much like all of our WRs before Flacco have been by poor QB play. If Doss doesnt get some PT this year, Hell be hypothetically another year behind in his overall projectory. so the potential youre drafting for, youre never actually giving them a shot at achieving and isnt something they can get back in the NFL where careers are short.
    Last edited by JAB1985; 06-04-2012 at 07:19 AM.
    -JAB




  5. #29
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    Re: Jacoby Jones

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    by all reports, Doss and even Williams, are very good in practice. its not like theyre dropping balls left and right like Torrey was, who actually got the bulk of PT anyway. I dont think there was one guy that said last years preseason that Torrey outplayed Doss. Not One. Because he didnt. he didnt prove jack shit in the preseason he just happened to be the only speed guy on the team after Evans went down. Boldin goes down instead, were probably talking about Doss being our next #1 WR. I dont think people realize how much you learn from game experience either. Its one thing to get on the field, you have to show a certain ability in practice which nobody hear is arguing, but once on the field, you learn and enhance your game. Our young WRs that are showing signs but not getting PT are having their growth stunted, much like all of our WRs before Flacco have been by poor QB play. If Doss doesnt get some PT this year, Hell be hypothetically another year behind in his overall projectory. so the potential youre drafting for, youre never actually giving them a shot at achieving and isnt something they can get back in the NFL where careers are short.
    Agreed.

    David Reed is an excellent example. He was killing it during practice and pre-season sessions as a WR and not just a return specialist. There were multiple articles dating back to his rookie year talking about how good he looked running routes and how natural of a receiver he was. Even about some of his circus catches he was making out on the field. How many snaps has he gotten as a receiver since becoming a Raven? 5? Maybe 8 in 3 years? Granted, his injuries impeded on that a lot, but if he was doing so well during practices...wouldn't that garner some sort of playing experience?

    I just find it really odd that out of all these drafts the Ravens have only been able to come away with really 1 promising young receiver. I know landing a solid receiver is an extremely low probability anyway, but it is just really REALLY weird to me that the Ravens have such a tough time doing it.

    Pitt: Antonio Brown, Emmanuel Sanders
    Pats: Julian Edelman
    Giants - Cruz, Manningham
    Cowboys - Austin
    Saints - Colston, Moore
    Niners - Kyle Williams
    Raiders - Denarius Moore, Jacoby Ford
    Seahawks - Doug Baldwin
    Chicago - Earl Bennett, Johnny Knox (before he got hurt)
    Buffalo - Stevie Johnson, Donald Jones, David Nelson


    I know I'm kind of cherry picking there and every situation is different, but it's just really strange to me that the Ravens haven't or seemingly cannot hit on 1 mid/late round receiver.
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  6. #30
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    Re: Jacoby Jones

    The truth of the matter is that the Ravens coaching staff on the offensive side of the ball is completely risk averse and isn't going to take a chance. They feel it is better to perform at 85% consistently than to go for the home run. That is why they will not use their young players unless forced to do so. I kind of laugh when Flacco talks about 40 points a game. That just isn't happening with this coaching staff.




  7. #31
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    Re: Jacoby Jones

    Quote Originally Posted by alien bird View Post
    The truth of the matter is that the Ravens coaching staff on the offensive side of the ball is completely risk averse and isn't going to take a chance. They feel it is better to perform at 85% consistently than to go for the home run. That is why they will not use their young players unless forced to do so. I kind of laugh when Flacco talks about 40 points a game. That just isn't happening with this coaching staff.
    Great point. I think this probably has a lot to do with it.
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  8. #32
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    Re: Jacoby Jones

    Devard Darling did finally get on the field due to injuries (Yamon broken foot?, IIRC Clayton Hamstring, D-Will a history of injury), and produced a nice game (Nov 18 '07 4 catches 107yds 1TD) which was enough to get him a 3yr contract with the Chiefs.

    Yep, sure seems that we don't play inexperience on offense unless we are forced to (Flacco would never have started if not for tonsils of Troy)

    Demetrius Williams to Clowns 2010.... the only encouraging thing is other teams do pick up a bunch of our reject failures, so we are not totally inept at analysis, just haven'd developed anyone of major significance. And I'm including the super return man Jermaine Lewis (career 143 catches in 9 years -but 295 punt returns)
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  9. #33
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    Re: Jacoby Jones

    Quote Originally Posted by Rxdoxx View Post
    Devard Darling did finally get on the field due to injuries (Yamon broken foot?, IIRC Clayton Hamstring, D-Will a history of injury), and produced a nice game (Nov 18 '07 4 catches 107yds 1TD) which was enough to get him a 3yr contract with the Chiefs.

    Yep, sure seems that we don't play inexperience on offense unless we are forced to (Flacco would never have started if not for tonsils of Troy)

    Demetrius Williams to Clowns 2010.... the only encouraging thing is other teams do pick up a bunch of our reject failures, so we are not totally inept at analysis, just haven'd developed anyone of major significance. And I'm including the super return man Jermaine Lewis (career 143 catches in 9 years -but 295 punt returns)

    I would love to know the evaluation process the ravens brass uses for scouting receivers. I know a lot of other teams (saints come to mind) use a scouting service for some positions.

    It just boggles my mind that they feel the need to bring in vets rather than going with their own guys. They certainly dont have a problem pulling starting caliber linebackers out of thin air...where is the drop off on offense happening?
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  10. #34

    Re: Jacoby Jones

    Unbelievable.




  11. #35
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    Re: Jacoby Jones

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Unbelievable.
    What is so unbelievable?

    If the young guys cant practice well enough to get on the field, so be it.

    If they're that bad in practice then why keep them on the team at all? They must be showing something, right?
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  12. #36
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    Re: Jacoby Jones

    Quote Originally Posted by Section 502 Raven View Post
    houston made jones expendable when they drafted keysahwn martin out of michigan state in the 4th round. martin is just a flat out playmaker as a specil teams and #3 receiver.

    the personell people in houston must know what they are doing. they have a ton of young talent. the only question mark about the texans is schaub. he makes some stupid decision.
    Doss was a better college wide receiver than Martin and he can't get on the field. No way to know if Martin can either.

    It was the contract that Jones signed with the Texans that made him expendable. They gave Jones a nice big extension in 2011. When Andre Johnson was hurt it was time for Jones to step forward and show why he got that extension. He couldn't do it. Way too many drops and not enough playmaking made the Texans realize they made a mistake so they fixed it by cutting him.
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