Ranking the top 25 Ravens of all time.

[leachisabeast]

I think what we need to remember when making this list is that it has to be a player who's been a Ravens for at least 3 seasons or something along those lines, and has consistently been a good player in that time frame. One season wonders IMO do not belong here (Jason Brown for example), that also goes for stars who where signed for only 1-2 seasons in their twilight, which is another reason why I didn't put Shannon Sharpe on my personal list.

[GOTA]

Back in those very early days we thought that the Ravens were going to be an offensive powerhouse. That first season I'm pretty sure they were in the top 5 in points and yards. Did it lead to wins? No, but it did give the fans some players to focus on. Vinny and Jackson were the real stars of the team. Bam Morris stunk so it was all about moving the ball through the air. That's also why JO became a star in his 2nd year.

To this day I never understood why they decided to blow it up in year 3 and not resign Vinny. I know he had been banged up but it's not like they had a young QB they wanted to play. They got rid of Vinny and then looked at every washout veteran they could find really until they drafted Redman in the 3rd round in 2000. I wish Ozzie would speak about what they were trying to do back then.

[leachisabeast]

Back in those very early days we thought that the Ravens were going to be an offensive powerhouse. That first season I'm pretty sure they were in the top 5 in points and yards. Did it lead to wins? No, but it did give the fans some players to focus on. Vinny and Jackson were the real stars of the team. Bam Morris stunk so it was all about moving the ball through the air. That's also why JO became a star in his 2nd year.

To this day I never understood why they decided to blow it up in year 3 and not resign Vinny. I know he had been banged up but it's not like they had a young QB they wanted to play. They got rid of Vinny and then looked at every washout veteran they could find really until they drafted Redman in the 3rd round in 2000. I wish Ozzie would speak about what they were trying to do back then.

And we could have Brady back in 2000! But I'm not sure if he would have succeed on a different team without being coached by Bellicheat.

[wickedsolo]

I flipped back and forth on whether to put Ed ahead of Jon or not. In the end I did put Ed first. My logic sounds backasswards, because I value offense more than defense. Yes, that's what I meant to say. I value Ed because I see him as more of an offensive threat, whereas I see Jon as more of a defensive asset.

What has made Ed great isn't that he defends the pass...what made him great is that he is always a threat to pick it off and return the ball on the opponent. In that sense, I really think of him as an offensive weapon.

With Ogden, I think his real asset was as a pass blocker. He is really defending the quarterback from getting hit. In that sense, I see him as more of a defensive stalwart -- when you play on a low powered, mistake-avoiding offense, it's hard to see your best player any other way.

I don't put Stover nearly as high as everyone else and I recognize I am in the minority on this. In fact, I got into a big statistical debate with PSUasskicker on this because when I look at the numbers I see a guy who was completely reliable for a very long time, but I don't see a guy who was statistically head and shoulders above the average kicker in any given year -- it nets out as about two more made kicks per year compared to the average kicker. But it's not like it's dozens or like he was booming from 15 yards further out than anyone else.

I realize that he is loved because he WAS the offense for a long time. My view, though, is that it was the weaknesses of those offenses that made him look great to us. I also realize that someone will point to Cundiff and say, see, that's why Stover was so valuable. But I think that it really proves how weak Cundiff was last year, not how strong Stover was in the past.

I see Stover as a valuable, steady contributor. In that sense, I liken him to Jarrett Johnson. Not spectacular, but totally reliable game in game out, year in year out. So, not surprisingly, Stover is 15 on my list and Johnson 13. They are similar contributors, to me.



I thought of including both Jackson and Testeverde in the back end of my list. I could have easily bumped Rob Burnett and Duane Starks off my list for them. Numbers-wise, the former duo was way better than the latter. But in the end, I decided that the former played in a bit of a vacuum the first couple years. They put up numbers on losing teams, and didn't really spur any kind of offensive legacy. They contributed more to their own legacy than the team's. Starks and Burnett were more role players, but they played very very well during a playoff run that lead to the franchise's proudest moment. I considered Jermaine Lewis, for that same reason, a guy mentioned above, over Mike Flynn-- contributing when the stakes were highest.

Yea, I hear you about JO vs Ed Reed. It's a tough call.

I think that Michael Jackson definitely deserves to be in the conversation. He was one of the original Ravens and was here for 3 years and played his last snaps as a Raven. To date - one could potentially argue - that he is the Ravens "best" receiver with Derrick Mason being a close 2nd.

[Shas]

Michael Jackson definitely deserves to be in the conversation...one could potentially argue - that he is the Ravens "best" receiver with Derrick Mason being a close 2nd.

You could also argue that Moe was the smartest of the three stooges...if you get my drift.

[wickedsolo]

You could also argue that Moe was the smartest of the three stooges...if you get my drift.

He wasn't?

[Shas]

Of course he was, but the bar was set pretty low. As it is with best Ravens receiver of all time.

[Ravens44]

This is all very interesting.
But still hard to decide.
I read every previous post on this thread but still I am not sure what is really meant by contributing.
I mean, without Dilfer and Sharpe, do we go to the super bowl? Do we even get past the Titans?
Without Sharpe, I believe we lose to the Jags in that epic second game and the entire season would probably turn out different.
Maybe we don't even make the playoffs.
Then our view of the 2000 team and all its players is looked at differently.
Also, I think McAlister was huge. He allowed the Ravens to have great defenses for years by shutting down one side of the field, not only against the pass, but the run as well.

[wickedsolo]

Of course he was, but the bar was set pretty low. As it is with best Ravens receiver of all time.

Haha, true. There really hasn't been a plethora of names that can be tossed into that discussion...

[Shas]

I am not sure what is really meant by contributing.

I think of it this way. If you make a list of the franchise's greatest achievements--its legacy to date--which players were the biggest contributors to that legacy? Winning a Super Bowl is first on the list. A stingy, intimidating, turnover-causing defense is second. Making a string of playoff berths may be third. There are other proud moments, like Jamal's record-breaking season (which helped get Flynn on the list for me).

So then you plug-in players who contributed to those achievements.

The fact that the SuperBowl is first bumps up a few players. It probably argues against me putting Reed second on the list, but he is so closely associated with the dominance for a long period that it overcomes it for me. I don't include Dilfer because, for me, he was as much along for the ride during that SuperBowl season, as he was the reason for it. Plus, he didn't stick long enough to be a legacy builder.

But it's all subjective, which is why everyone can have their own list.

[GOTA]

And we could have Brady back in 2000! But I'm not sure if he would have succeed on a different team without being coached by Bellicheat.

Every team could have had Brady 6 times over. That's how it works sometimes.

[wickedsolo]

Every team could have had Brady 6 times over. That's how it works sometimes.

Yup.

The amount of great players who were passed over by a lot of teams is incredible. That just kind of comes along with the territory. For every Travis Taylor or Kyle Boller there is a Marshall Yanda or a Bart Scott.

[festivus]

Any list of the 25 top Ravens that does not include Jermaine Lewis is wrong.

Also Tony Siragusa and Bart Scott, among others, do not belong. Bart Scott was Jamie Sharper with a bigger mouth. Tony Siragusa was Kelly Gregg with a bigger mouth (and less time as a Raven).

/rant

[wickedsolo]

Any list of the 25 top Ravens that does not include Jermaine Lewis is wrong.

Also Tony Siragusa and Bart Scott, among others, do not belong. Bart Scott was Jamie Sharper with a bigger mouth. Tony Siragusa was Kelly Gregg with a bigger mouth (and less time as a Raven).

/rant

I definitely think Goose needs to be on that list. He was a major MAJOR reason that guys like Ray Lewis and Peter Boulware were able to do some of the things that they did.

[Shas]

I think Goose and Bart both did a lot of little things well that allowed the "stars" to excel. I didn't include Sam Adams on my list because I think he's a lot more one-dimension and his time here was shorter. Buddy Lee to me is a really likeable guy who did a nice job, but I don't think his talent level was enough to say he's a top 25 player. Just a solid role player for me. I think Bart's contributions were much higher than Sharpers. Funny that Goose and Bart could be knocked down a peg by some people because they are loudmouths, which is something I wouldn't have factored in.

In other words, I would question whether the relative lack of likability for Goose and Bart (who I actually liked a lot until the last season or two) is negatively impacting what otherwise should be seen as a positive contribution and whether the relative likability of Kelly Gregg, and to some extent Jermaine (vis-a-vis the tragedy with his child) makes us want to boost their rankings?

[festivus]

Ok, he was better than Kelly Gregg. You're right. Perhaps he should be on the list, though I'm not going to put him on mine.

I'll take a stab at it, though it's much easier for me to think about it, having seen so many excellent entries above.

1. Ray Lewis
2. Jonathan Ogden
3. Ed Reed
4. Terrell Suggs
5. Chris McAlister
6. Jamal Lewis
7. Matt Stover
8. Ray Rice
9. Michael McCrary
10. Peter Boulware
11. Haloti Ngata
12. Jermaine Lewis
13. Derrick Mason
14. Jamal Lewis
15. Todd Heap
16. Joe Flacco
17. Rod Woodson
18. Lardarius Webb
19. Shannon Sharpe
20. Rob Burnett
21. Michael Jackson
22. Ben Grubbs
23. Sam Adams
24. Vinny Testaverde
25. Lee Evans
25. Billy Cundiff
25. Steve McNair

I'm sure I left some people off and there's a lot of room for swapping around here and there.

I do believe that JO should be ahead of Reed, though.

[Shas]

I thought about Grubbs. But then I thought about how I actually believe that Marshall Yanda was a better player IMO while they were both here. And I can't see putting Marshall on th list, at least not yet, so Ben didn't make it either. Perhaps they too fall under the "solid role player" category. Top fifty, but not top 25.

Lardarius certain has the makings of a top 25, but I don't think he's quite there yet.

Here's hoping players like Torrey Smith and Jimmy Smith also push their way onto the list in the next couple of years.

I'm surprised no love for Anquan Boldin here.

[leachisabeast]

AnQuan has only been here for two seasons. Like I said, I think that ONLY players who have played for the Ravens for 3 or more years and have been consistently good through out that time frame deserve to be on this list.

[leachisabeast]

I thought about Grubbs. But then I thought about how I actually believe that Marshall Yanda was a better player IMO while they were both here. And I can't see putting Marshall on th list, at least not yet, so Ben didn't make it either. Perhaps they too fall under the "solid role player" category. Top fifty, but not top 25.

Lardarius certain has the makings of a top 25, but I don't think he's quite there yet.

Here's hoping players like Torrey Smith and Jimmy Smith also push their way onto the list in the next couple of years.

I'm surprised no love for Anquan Boldin here.

Just a question, you put Mike Flynn on the list, but not Marshall Yanda (pro bowl guard and all pro)?

[festivus]

In retrospect, maybe I should have slipped Marshall in there somewhere & allowed Vinny to drop off the end.

I thought about Torrey and Jimmy. I think they both have the talent to get on the list.

I also thought about Boldin. I'm just not persuaded he contributed enough. Certainly he'd be well behind Mason.

Wide receiver is a tricky position, because our QB position has been so bad for most of our existence.