Cam Cameron Hatred

[BcRaven]

I don't think Cam is conservative. He's aggressive but he lacks imagination and his playcalling is predictable...

Huh? That's like saying "he's a good actor, but forgets his lines." ... Bc

[Corey]

Why should the HC have to intervene during a game where everyone, even fans watching at home, could see the gameplan was ineffective? That's my other concern with him. He has no feel for the flow of the game.

Very true. You know who should have a great feel of the game? The guy under center. I think if Flacco were REALLY given more control and input into the offense the Ravens offense might flow a little better. Not to mention, we might be able to use the hurry up a little more, which works so well against our own defense.

[Ravenswintitle]

Very true. You know who should have a great feel of the game? The guy under center. I think if Flacco were REALLY given more control and input into the offense the Ravens offense might flow a little better. Not to mention, we might be able to use the hurry up a little more, which works so well against our own defense.

what makes you think he can't change the play, he does it all the time

[Corey]

Huh? That's like saying "he's a good actor, but forgets his lines." ... Bc

Being aggressive is not always a positive. It can be a negative when you are aggressive at the wrong time.

[Corey]

what makes you think he can't change the play, he does it all the time

Where did I say that? And prove it, I mean beyond Harbaugh's coach speak.

What I AM saying is that Flacco doesn't have nearly as much control over how the Ravens offense looks as other top QB's. Other team's seem to be able to adjust their offense and work their QB's strength's into the game plan so much that their offense is based heavily on it. The Ravens offense tries to fit square pegs into round holes, and I am not just talking about at QB either.

[Ravens44]

Cosell, I thought, was well respected throughout the league.
Also, he is not the only one who said they ran an offense from the 60s...the Texans said that is why they were so successful shutting down the Ravens in the playoff game.
It seems every aspect of every play has to be executed to perfection for it to work.
Flacco is always throwing into small, tight windows.
There are so many times that Cam is predictable.

And my biggest problem is that he has a very difficult time adapting during a game...seeing what the other team is having a problem with and being able to exploit it.
One case is point, Pats championship game...no one on the Pats could cover Torrey deep ALL DAY and at the same time, they had Edelman paired up with Boldin. It was like he was scared to call plays to exploit either one of those obvious situations. I believed all along, that on offense, we should have came out with relatively the same game plan as the Rams game. You know what, that's all I need to say.

[GOTA]

Cosell, I thought, was well respected throughout the league.
Also, he is not the only one who said they ran an offense from the 60s...the Texans said that is why they were so successful shutting down the Ravens in the playoff game.
It seems every aspect of every play has to be executed to perfection for it to work.
Flacco is always throwing into small, tight windows.
There are so many times that Cam is predictable.

And my biggest problem is that he has a very difficult time adapting during a game...seeing what the other team is having a problem with and being able to exploit it.
One case is point, Pats championship game...no one on the Pats could cover Torrey deep ALL DAY and at the same time, they had Edelman paired up with Boldin. It was like he was scared to call plays to exploit either one of those obvious situations. I believed all along, that on offense, we should have came out with relatively the same game plan as the Rams game. You know what, that's all I need to say.

Cosell is very well respected. In fact many consider him to be the best analyst out there. Part of what makes his reputation is the fact that he works for NFL Films. He doesn't have to slant things any particular way for any market. He's not told to do things a certain way by those trying to get rating on a national cable network. Cosell is pretty much unique in the media because he can call them as he sees them much like his uncle used to.

[Shas]

I don't think Cam is conservative. He's aggressive but he lacks imagination and his playcalling is predictable.

I guess it depends on your definition of conservative. If you think that implies the coordinator is unwilling to throw the ball and risk a turnover, then no, he's not conservative. He will throw the ball plenty. And he will throw the ball deep, attacking downfield. So in that sense you are right, conservative doesn't really fit.

On the other hand, there have been times that he seemed to baby Flacco -- justly or unjustly, I don't know -- and not ask him to make throws into coverage. That brand of conservatism led to a predictable offense. Opponents knew it was likely an out pattern or a throw over the top, but rarely a throw in-between defenders, in traffic. Teams knew where the ball was going.

I think another factor at work is simply style of play. Bililck used to call it his offensive profile. (In Billick's case it was justification for being a run-first team where the quarterback was asked to not make mistakes).

The Ravens philosophy on offense seems to be built around Ray Rice, a full back, and the use of tight ends. You aren't going to look much like a Mike Martz offense when that is your primary personnel group.

That style of play works fine when you can run the ball effectively and know you can put yourself into third and short situations. Cam can be plenty creative in those situations where he has all sorts of options to run a draw, a screen, a slant or even go deep sometimes. Teams really can't predict what he'll do in those situations. Whereas when it's third and long, Cam's playcalling does become too predictable.

I'm not sure why, in those situations, he doesn't bring in the three or four receivers sets, or split out Rice more (which he started to do) and rely on creative route running.

I think it comes down to trust. Cam seems to prefer max protection, keeping in a back and having the tight end at least chip block. He doesn't trust that his line can protect Joe, or that Joe can make the right read and get rid of the ball effectively under pressure.

Is Cam wrong in believing this? Should he, in these obvious passing situations, try to put the pressure on the defense, rather than defending against the pass rush as his primary focus?

To me, when you talk about conservatism, this is how it most aptly applies to Cam. He doesn't exactly subscribe to the old axiom that the best defense is a good offense. He doesn't make an opponent afraid to blitz. He doesn't use the maximum resources to pressure a defense in these situations...he goes more into a defensive posture and it leaves him with minimal resources to convert...and that makes him highly predictably. So defenses feel pretty comfortable they can cover and really go after the quarterback.

Who knows if his lack of trust is warranted. I think most of us would prefer that he roll the dice a bit more in these situations and find out if his guys can get the job done in adverse conditions.

I know this: if he does open it up on third and long and the sacks and interceptions and throw-aways come, it's Flacco we turn on instead.

[pslholder96]

Ok thanks I'll check it out. But are we really the only team that runs this system?

No, but we are the only team that employs Cam Cameron to run this system

[landspeed]

Just go back and find Greg Cosell's comments about how Cam's offense is a 40 year old dinosaur and how shocked he is to see it being used in the NFL. That's all you need to know

*50 year old

even worse

[trailhiker85]

I don't think Cam is conservative. He's aggressive but he lacks imagination and his playcalling is predictable.

Ah, how can I resist a Cam thread?

Actually I don't think Corey's statement is at all contradictory, and isn't far off the mark. The analogy might be a slugging-type prizefighter with tremendous punching ability who always take the same approach into every fight. He may have great strength, aggressiveness, and talent, but no ability (or at least no inclination) to adapt when fighting a finesse fighter. And even when the finesse fighter starts scoring punches and gains the upper hand, the slugger fails to change his approach. The finesse guy quickly realizes that the slugger is predictable.

OK, in the interest of full disclosure I have to confess I've been down on Cam for the last two years. Oh, I try to give him credit where it is due. For instance, he did well enough in the AFCCG against NE. As many others have said, Cam can't control dropped passes. Still, he is predictable, especially on third down. The offensive sets appear very basic. Routes run by receivers seem the least imaginative of any team in the NFL. You just don't often see our guys get "wide open". Granted, our WR's aren't the best in the league and on-field talent (or lack thereof) obviously factors into this, but still. We just don't fool defenses all that often.

Unfortunately, we have no better alternative to Cam in the near term. So for me it's a case of keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for the best in 2012, hoping that yet another year of Top 5 defensive effort won't be wasted.

[seraph]

I'm always going to blame poor player performances most of the time over Cam. I doubt Cam is trying to put his players in the position to fail. The problem is that Cam tries to create simple gameplans so that the offense can herp derp their way to scoring; however, the talent isn't good enough for a simplified gameplan to work.

[srobert96]

At times Cam is a great play caller but he goes through stretches of each game where he is very predictable. Last year I can remember several games where he mixed it up well in the first quarter and the raves jumped out to a two score lead only to have him go ultra conservative in the 3rd quarter and let the other team back in it.

Ravens are not a great running team and they consider themselves a run first team. The Oline is poorly coached and yet the same Oline coach is back for next year. If the Ravens want to be a run first team that relies on good defense to win they are going to have to get better running the ball. If you can't tell a team you are going to run it on them and go out and do it you better be creative. When you come out with a two wrs a te, FB and RB the other team is going to sell out to stop the run.

[bmorebirds_24]

Oh boy.

Here we go again. I'm gonna kick back and watch this one play out.

Some of the shortest post around here are the funniest.

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[rpcfball]

why does everyone keep saying that cam called a great new england game? he called a great LAST DRIVE! everyone seems to forget that he completely jacksonville'd the first quarter against one of the leagues worst defenses

[AirFlacco]

And we were supposed to have one of the best defenses but Brady marched straight
down the field to win it.

CAM offense still gave Ravens chance to win it with 25 secs left and was still alive
for OT until special teams blew it.

That's not on CAM either.

[blacknpurplepain]

I would agree with you except that Cam's version of the Coryell has never been anywhere near an explosive passing offense.

It is almost entirely centered around the running back.

If it worked on other teams he was the OC then why it's not working with the Ravens. My thing is if you don't have the type of players to run it why run that offense. On the other hand if you're gonna run that offense at least draft players that you will think that fits it. This is solely my opinion but I think FO has no faith in Flacco, it seems each year the first player drafted is on defense. They run a ZB scheme but the first linemen they draft is a mauler type guard. The linemen we have especially on the left side if KO starts don't fit that ZB scheme. Another thing is all the dropped passes, not reading the defense correctly, not going thru the progression and bad throws. It like we can't keep defensive coaches but the offensive coaches stick around longer. The blame shouldn't all be put on Cam bc the man had top 10 offenses before he came to Baltimore. There will always be blame bc we are spoiled as football fans and it's sad that we can't get over that hump. I have a question tho, what if the Ravens had a top 5 O and the D was around 27th in the league and the score of the AFCCG was NE 42 to Bmore 37, what would be the beef next?


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[OriAl]

Not to get technical but the top qualifying speeds for this year's Indy 500 were over 224 mph
so CAM has to go really fast to even qualify.

Just saying ya know. He didn't drop the ball in the end zone with
25 secs left but he sure got us there.

When he thanked Ozzie for keeping him on Ozzie said it was never in our minds
that you were leaving.


TRANSLATED: ONLY IN THE FANS MINDS!

http://www.sbnation.com/nascar/2012/...sults-pole-day

Cam gave away the entire first quarter of the AFCC game thanks to his predictable play calling. 2011 playoff game vs. NE - first offensive play, Rice runs left, gets a huge hole, runs for TD. AFCC game - first play, Rice runs left (like NE wasn't expecting that play), hit for loss. Second play - run, no gain. Third and 10, line parts like Red Sea, incomplete. Second possession - again, unsuccessful run, unsuccessful run, incomplete. Did Cam not watch the previous few games and see that our run game was not working well? Our offense didn't start moving until he finally went to some rollouts in second quarter, and used runs as change of pace.

Yes, he doesn't drop balls, but he also doesn't put his players in position to score 30+ points.

[BcRaven]

Originally Posted by AirFlacco
Not to get technical but the top qualifying speeds for this year's Indy 500 were over 224 mph
so CAM has to go really fast to even qualify.

Just saying ya know. He didn't drop the ball in the end zone with
25 secs left but he sure got us there.
When he thanked Ozzie for keeping him on Ozzie said it was never in our minds
that you were leaving.
TRANSLATED: ONLY IN THE FANS MINDS!

Cam gave away the entire first quarter of the AFCC game thanks to his predictable play calling. 2011 playoff game vs. NE - first offensive play, Rice runs left, gets a huge hole, runs for TD. AFCC game - first play, Rice runs left (like NE wasn't expecting that play), hit for loss. Second play - run, no gain. Third and 10, line parts like Red Sea, incomplete. Second possession - again, unsuccessful run, unsuccessful run, incomplete. Did Cam not watch the previous few games and see that our run game was not working well? Our offense didn't start moving until he finally went to some rollouts in second quarter, and used runs as change of pace.
Yes, he doesn't drop balls, but he also doesn't put his players in position to score 30+ points.

My to you OriAL because you get "it"... Bc

[wickedsolo]

Cam gave away the entire first quarter of the AFCC game thanks to his predictable play calling. 2011 playoff game vs. NE - first offensive play, Rice runs left, gets a huge hole, runs for TD. AFCC game - first play, Rice runs left (like NE wasn't expecting that play), hit for loss. Second play - run, no gain. Third and 10, line parts like Red Sea, incomplete. Second possession - again, unsuccessful run, unsuccessful run, incomplete. Did Cam not watch the previous few games and see that our run game was not working well? Our offense didn't start moving until he finally went to some rollouts in second quarter, and used runs as change of pace.

Yes, he doesn't drop balls, but he also doesn't put his players in position to score 30+ points.