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  1. #25
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    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred



    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    what makes you think he can't change the play, he does it all the time
    Where did I say that? And prove it, I mean beyond Harbaugh's coach speak.

    What I AM saying is that Flacco doesn't have nearly as much control over how the Ravens offense looks as other top QB's. Other team's seem to be able to adjust their offense and work their QB's strength's into the game plan so much that their offense is based heavily on it. The Ravens offense tries to fit square pegs into round holes, and I am not just talking about at QB either.




  2. #26
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    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred

    Cosell, I thought, was well respected throughout the league.
    Also, he is not the only one who said they ran an offense from the 60s...the Texans said that is why they were so successful shutting down the Ravens in the playoff game.
    It seems every aspect of every play has to be executed to perfection for it to work.
    Flacco is always throwing into small, tight windows.
    There are so many times that Cam is predictable.

    And my biggest problem is that he has a very difficult time adapting during a game...seeing what the other team is having a problem with and being able to exploit it.
    One case is point, Pats championship game...no one on the Pats could cover Torrey deep ALL DAY and at the same time, they had Edelman paired up with Boldin. It was like he was scared to call plays to exploit either one of those obvious situations. I believed all along, that on offense, we should have came out with relatively the same game plan as the Rams game. You know what, that's all I need to say.




  3. #27
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    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens44 View Post
    Cosell, I thought, was well respected throughout the league.
    Also, he is not the only one who said they ran an offense from the 60s...the Texans said that is why they were so successful shutting down the Ravens in the playoff game.
    It seems every aspect of every play has to be executed to perfection for it to work.
    Flacco is always throwing into small, tight windows.
    There are so many times that Cam is predictable.

    And my biggest problem is that he has a very difficult time adapting during a game...seeing what the other team is having a problem with and being able to exploit it.
    One case is point, Pats championship game...no one on the Pats could cover Torrey deep ALL DAY and at the same time, they had Edelman paired up with Boldin. It was like he was scared to call plays to exploit either one of those obvious situations. I believed all along, that on offense, we should have came out with relatively the same game plan as the Rams game. You know what, that's all I need to say.
    Cosell is very well respected. In fact many consider him to be the best analyst out there. Part of what makes his reputation is the fact that he works for NFL Films. He doesn't have to slant things any particular way for any market. He's not told to do things a certain way by those trying to get rating on a national cable network. Cosell is pretty much unique in the media because he can call them as he sees them much like his uncle used to.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  4. #28
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    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    I don't think Cam is conservative. He's aggressive but he lacks imagination and his playcalling is predictable.
    I guess it depends on your definition of conservative. If you think that implies the coordinator is unwilling to throw the ball and risk a turnover, then no, he's not conservative. He will throw the ball plenty. And he will throw the ball deep, attacking downfield. So in that sense you are right, conservative doesn't really fit.

    On the other hand, there have been times that he seemed to baby Flacco -- justly or unjustly, I don't know -- and not ask him to make throws into coverage. That brand of conservatism led to a predictable offense. Opponents knew it was likely an out pattern or a throw over the top, but rarely a throw in-between defenders, in traffic. Teams knew where the ball was going.

    I think another factor at work is simply style of play. Bililck used to call it his offensive profile. (In Billick's case it was justification for being a run-first team where the quarterback was asked to not make mistakes).

    The Ravens philosophy on offense seems to be built around Ray Rice, a full back, and the use of tight ends. You aren't going to look much like a Mike Martz offense when that is your primary personnel group.

    That style of play works fine when you can run the ball effectively and know you can put yourself into third and short situations. Cam can be plenty creative in those situations where he has all sorts of options to run a draw, a screen, a slant or even go deep sometimes. Teams really can't predict what he'll do in those situations. Whereas when it's third and long, Cam's playcalling does become too predictable.

    I'm not sure why, in those situations, he doesn't bring in the three or four receivers sets, or split out Rice more (which he started to do) and rely on creative route running.

    I think it comes down to trust. Cam seems to prefer max protection, keeping in a back and having the tight end at least chip block. He doesn't trust that his line can protect Joe, or that Joe can make the right read and get rid of the ball effectively under pressure.

    Is Cam wrong in believing this? Should he, in these obvious passing situations, try to put the pressure on the defense, rather than defending against the pass rush as his primary focus?

    To me, when you talk about conservatism, this is how it most aptly applies to Cam. He doesn't exactly subscribe to the old axiom that the best defense is a good offense. He doesn't make an opponent afraid to blitz. He doesn't use the maximum resources to pressure a defense in these situations...he goes more into a defensive posture and it leaves him with minimal resources to convert...and that makes him highly predictably. So defenses feel pretty comfortable they can cover and really go after the quarterback.

    Who knows if his lack of trust is warranted. I think most of us would prefer that he roll the dice a bit more in these situations and find out if his guys can get the job done in adverse conditions.

    I know this: if he does open it up on third and long and the sacks and interceptions and throw-aways come, it's Flacco we turn on instead.




  5. #29

    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred

    Quote Originally Posted by RavenMaven52 View Post
    Ok thanks I'll check it out. But are we really the only team that runs this system?
    No, but we are the only team that employs Cam Cameron to run this system




  6. #30

    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Just go back and find Greg Cosell's comments about how Cam's offense is a 40 year old dinosaur and how shocked he is to see it being used in the NFL. That's all you need to know
    *50 year old

    even worse




  7. #31
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    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    I don't think Cam is conservative. He's aggressive but he lacks imagination and his playcalling is predictable.
    Ah, how can I resist a Cam thread?

    Actually I don't think Corey's statement is at all contradictory, and isn't far off the mark. The analogy might be a slugging-type prizefighter with tremendous punching ability who always take the same approach into every fight. He may have great strength, aggressiveness, and talent, but no ability (or at least no inclination) to adapt when fighting a finesse fighter. And even when the finesse fighter starts scoring punches and gains the upper hand, the slugger fails to change his approach. The finesse guy quickly realizes that the slugger is predictable.

    OK, in the interest of full disclosure I have to confess I've been down on Cam for the last two years. Oh, I try to give him credit where it is due. For instance, he did well enough in the AFCCG against NE. As many others have said, Cam can't control dropped passes. Still, he is predictable, especially on third down. The offensive sets appear very basic. Routes run by receivers seem the least imaginative of any team in the NFL. You just don't often see our guys get "wide open". Granted, our WR's aren't the best in the league and on-field talent (or lack thereof) obviously factors into this, but still. We just don't fool defenses all that often.

    Unfortunately, we have no better alternative to Cam in the near term. So for me it's a case of keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for the best in 2012, hoping that yet another year of Top 5 defensive effort won't be wasted.




  8. #32

    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred

    I'm always going to blame poor player performances most of the time over Cam. I doubt Cam is trying to put his players in the position to fail. The problem is that Cam tries to create simple gameplans so that the offense can herp derp their way to scoring; however, the talent isn't good enough for a simplified gameplan to work.




  9. #33

    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred

    At times Cam is a great play caller but he goes through stretches of each game where he is very predictable. Last year I can remember several games where he mixed it up well in the first quarter and the raves jumped out to a two score lead only to have him go ultra conservative in the 3rd quarter and let the other team back in it.

    Ravens are not a great running team and they consider themselves a run first team. The Oline is poorly coached and yet the same Oline coach is back for next year. If the Ravens want to be a run first team that relies on good defense to win they are going to have to get better running the ball. If you can't tell a team you are going to run it on them and go out and do it you better be creative. When you come out with a two wrs a te, FB and RB the other team is going to sell out to stop the run.




  10. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Oh boy.

    Here we go again. I'm gonna kick back and watch this one play out.
    Some of the shortest post around here are the funniest.

    Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2




  11. #35

    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred

    why does everyone keep saying that cam called a great new england game? he called a great LAST DRIVE! everyone seems to forget that he completely jacksonville'd the first quarter against one of the leagues worst defenses




  12. #36
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    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred

    And we were supposed to have one of the best defenses but Brady marched straight
    down the field to win it.

    CAM offense still gave Ravens chance to win it with 25 secs left and was still alive
    for OT until special teams blew it.

    That's not on CAM either.
    Pic of a natural act: UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU. THE PAST IS NOT DEAD, IN FACT, IT IS NOT EVEN PAST.' WILLIAM FAULKNER.




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