Doss Fully Recovered and 10 pounds heavier

**Justlovemybirds** · 06-25-2012, 09:11 AM

http://blogs.baltimoreravens.com/201...t-tandon-doss/

“What was different from a year ago when he was an unproductive rookie is how Doss rapidly accelerated after the catch, aggressively picking up yards and leaving defensive backs trailing behind him,” Wilson wrote.

“The hesitation that was obvious in Doss’ game last year has vanished.”

He was playing at about 200 lbs last year so he's up around 210 and now has the burst that made Flacco like him, I'm excited to see what he can do this year.

**JAB1985** · 06-25-2012, 09:16 AM

somethings different about tandon doss

There seems to be a faction, although small, that talks of Doss being a bust (way premature) and Williams being better simply because he played more last year. Ive been pretty adamant that Doss' injury (two sports hernias) was the main reason why he wasnt up to full speed last year (he played his entire last college season with them), and the only reason he didnt get PT (ST certainly attributed to it as well though). It appears hes back to his old self and even better, isnt still learning the playbook, which is when the game really slows down for young players. I still expect a good season from Doss, even with Jones now in the mix. You cant coach sure hands, and Doss may be the best on the team in that category. I think its possible, maybe even likely, he beats out Jones for the majority of PT as #3 and Jones is limited mostly to ST where hes much more of an asset. thoughts?

**JAB1985** · 06-25-2012, 09:16 AM

Mods... feel free to combine.

**GOTA** · 06-25-2012, 10:02 AM

Can a 4th round pick be a bust? Doss has to beat the odds to have a career longer than a couple of years. Even if he doesn't make the team this year you can't really call him a bust.

**wickedsolo** · 06-25-2012, 10:05 AM

I don't think a 4th rounder can be a bust, per se, but there has been some high expectations on the kid considering it's been reported about how good his hands are.

**Ravens75** · 06-25-2012, 10:14 AM

I think Tandon will be the no. 3 receiver next year but will get plenty of burn in 4 receiver sets that the Ravens are going to employ.

On a side note, I clicked on the link and scrolled down to an article on why the Ravens are the least hated team in the AFC North by Bungles fans. Here's an excerpt on what does rub Bengals fans.

“What rubs Bengals fans the wrong way about the purple and black is their cockiness and ‘swagger,’” wrote Cincy Jungle blogger Anthony Cosenza. “The Ravens are one of the mouthiest teams in the NFL, led by Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs and even Joe Flacco. They back up their talk more often than not with their physicality, and constantly play with a chip on their shoulders.”

Flacco is not the deaf mute that so many of him make him out to be.

**BcRaven** · 06-25-2012, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I don't think a 4th rounder can be a bust, per se, but there has been some high expectations on the kid considering it's been reported about how good his hands are.

On principle I don't agree. Why (?) are only 1st and 2nd round choices busts? IMO even a 6th round draft choice (Harewood) can be a bust.
Wasn't Brady a 6th? IMO any pick can be a "steal" or a "bust" regardless of round picked... Bc

**GOTA** · 06-25-2012, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by BcRaven

On principle I don't agree. Why (?) are only 1st and 2nd round choices busts? IMO even a 6th round draft choice (Harewood) can be a bust.
Wasn't Brady a 6th? IMO any pick can be a "steal" or a "bust" regardless of round picked... Bc

You must have a pretty long list of steals and busts then. Last time I heard the stats less than 20% of 4th round picks become starters and most don't make it past year 4 in the NFL. I couldn't tell you what years those stats were taken from but it's a topic around every draft because a lot of teams trade those picks to move around in the draft. If you look at all the kids that get drafted and sign as undrafted free agents a large number have to also leave the league every year.

4th through 7th rounders who actually stick around for several year is a lot bigger news than those who don't. I liked the Doss pick and hope he does stay here for a while but if he does get cut I just can't see that as him being a bust.

**LukeDaniel** · 06-25-2012, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by BcRaven

On principle I don't agree. Why (?) are only 1st and 2nd round choices busts? IMO even a 6th round draft choice (Harewood) can be a bust.
Wasn't Brady a 6th? IMO any pick can be a "steal" or a "bust" regardless of round picked... Bc

Correct statement. A sixth round pick can very easily be a bust. The average career length for a 6th rounder is just shy of 4 years. I don't have all the data in front of me from my research, but I also believe that the average 6th rounder starts somewhere in the 18-20 game range over their career. So if you have a 6th rounder like Harewood who never makes an NFL roster, he's definitely a big bust.

**JAB1985** · 06-25-2012, 10:11 AM

Id say top 4 rounds you have to have some expectation for them. 1st being a future star, 2/3 being a future good player, and 3/4 being future contributors, each GM being a little different. maybe others feel its top 3, but you certainly can have a bust in the 4th, it is after all the top half of the draft still. if he werent to make the team after only one year and hardly any PT, id say thats worthy of the "bust" label. i feel some people think that might be possible, simply because he didnt play last year.

Ill put my hat in as a guy with high expectations. I think he may end up a more complete WR than Torrey, although maybe not statistically (kind of like Brown vs Wallace). I dont look at 4th round picks as throw aways, a lot of our better players have come from that area of the draft, certainly the last few years, with drafts getting deeper its just as important to hit there as it is early.

**Ravens75** · 06-25-2012, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by JAB1985

Id say top 4 rounds you have to have some expectation for them. 1st being a future star, 2/3 being a future good player, and 3/4 being future contributors, each GM being a little different. maybe others feel its top 3, but you certainly can have a bust in the 4th, it is after all the top half of the draft still. if he werent to make the team after only one year and hardly any PT, id say thats worthy of the "bust" label. i feel some people think that might be possible, simply because he didnt play last year.

Here's my take on round expectations

1st - starter/potential All Pro or Pro-bowler
2nd - starter/potential pro-bowler
3rd - key contributor/potential starter
4th - depth/potential key contributor
5th - ST contributor/potential depth/rotation player
6 & 7th - practice squad/ST contributor

I think Tandon is going to be a depth guy this year as the 4th receiver but by mid-season will become a key contributor through ST's or in different offensive packages(I hope its through his play in practice and not through poor play above him or injuries).

**Shas** · 06-25-2012, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by JAB1985

Id say top 4 rounds you have to have some expectation for them. 1st being a future star, 2/3 being a future good player, and 3/4 being future contributors, each GM being a little different.

True. You can actually read what DeCosta had to say about expectations for players they scout and draft, and how they categorize them -- which isn't as much a system of placing players into rounds as it is a system of placing players into roles within the Ravens style of play. Tony did a nice interview two years ago with DeCosta and it got pretty specific.

TL: Paul Kruger is a player who didn’t see the field much in ’09 and I’ve heard him referred to as a developmental player. Do you ever consciously draft players based on projected ceilings knowing that they may take a year or two to develop?

ED: Our grading system is based on several different levels. The first level basically asks the question “Is the player a Pro-bowler, a starter, a backup, or a free-agent camp guy?”

The second level breaks the starter and backup categories (the two groups most players fall into) into different levels (i.e. first-year starter like Michael Oher, second-year starter like Ray Rice, potential possible starter over time like Dwan Edwards or Casey Rabach, backup for the Ravens like Haruki Nakamura, or backup for the league).

Our scouts are required to PROJECT players based on their college experience, personality, and background. Unlike a lot of teams, we don’t rank players based on round we would select, we rank players based on role both short-term and long-term. This is a significant difference.

So yes, we draft players with lots different levels of expectations. We don’t expect every player to start day one or even, in some cases, to ever be a starter. We take a more macro approach aimed at building the best possible team. That entails sometimes taking a lesser player with a great makeup who will be a great backup rather than drafting a really good player with a poor makeup who will be a terrible team guy or bad backup.

They tend to tweak their approach from year to year -- for instance, they've put more emphasis on evaluating small-school prospects this year -- but the general philosophy stays the same. You can assume that Doss was seen as a guy who would take time to develop and maybe contribute as a kick returner in the meantime.

**JimZipCode** · 06-26-2012, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by Shas

Tony did a nice interview two years ago with DeCosta and it got pretty specific.

Thanks for linking that. I hadn't seen it before. Extremely interesting.

**LukeDaniel** · 06-25-2012, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Can a 4th round pick be a bust? Doss has to beat the odds to have a career longer than a couple of years. Even if he doesn't make the team this year you can't really call him a bust.

The average career length of a 4th round draft pick is 5.3 years. If Doss got cut after just one season, he would be a colossal bust. You keep circulating these factually incorrect statistics about draft picks relating to their career lengths and career starts.

**GOTA** · 06-25-2012, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by LukeDaniel

The average career length of a 4th round draft pick is 5.3 years. If Doss got cut after just one season, he would be a colossal bust. You keep circulating these factually incorrect statistics about draft picks relating to their career lengths and career starts.

I keep circulating things I hear on SiriusXM NFL radio. Take it up with Ross Tucker and Bob Poppa who spent a lot of time on it during the draft. They also weren't looking at 1 particular season but an average over time. It was one of those 'since 2000' kind of stats. Tucker was an undrafted free agent who made it which is one of the reasons why he was interested. We all know that certain drafts are better than others so maybe 2006 happened to be a better year for 4th round picks?

**LukeDaniel** · 06-25-2012, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by GOTA

We all know that certain drafts are better than others so maybe 2006 happened to be a better year for 4th round picks?

That was what I wanted to check as well. See my post above about the 2005 draft. The numbers are even stronger for the 2005 draft, considering an extra year has passed. Those are just two years I realize. However, I would guess they aren't too far removed from the rest of the other years.

I think your problem is you listen to the talking heads in the media to form your assessment of reality. They are all virtually clueless when you put their statements alongside of actual real facts and stats.

**Kyle Cactus** · 06-25-2012, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by JAB1985

think its possible, maybe even likely, he beats out Jones for the majority of PT as #3 and Jones is limited mostly to ST where hes much more of an asset. thoughts?

I wouldn't be surprised to see Jones start the season as the #3 but then get benched after a critical dropped pass at some point in favor of the sure-handed Doss.

**Carey** · 06-25-2012, 11:18 AM

Great news, I'm a Doss fan, was one of my fav prospects in that draft class. Hopefully he builds on this and is able to get on the field as the 3rd WR and show his talents, if he indeed have the burst and 4.5 speed he showed in college i think he starts to show why he was being mentioned as a possible 2nd round pick if healthy.

**leachisabeast** · 06-25-2012, 11:23 AM

This is great news, he must be playing at around 210-215 lbs now, and at 6'2 that is perfect size for a possession receiver. A lot of people wanted us to take guys like Mohammed Sanu or Nick Toon in the 2nd-4th rounds, however Tandon Doss was just as good as both of them coming out of college, with arguably better speed, and better hands than both. Doss was a 2nd rounder on many boards coming out of college too. Like Wicked said, he could definitely be an effective #3 guy for us, and could potentially replace Boldin long term.

As for the busts labels. I personally consider 4th rounders to be the maximum round where you can pretty much consider someone a bust. For example, if Gino starts in 2013 at center for us, and plays really bad, I am sure a lot of guys around here will jump at the conclusion that he would be a bust. I think it depends on what position it was when you're talking 4th round busts. I think there is barely any expectation for 4th round QB's, pass rushers, and corners, especially in their first few years, but I think the expectation raises for positions like WR, offensive linemen (not left tackles), safeties, etc.

**JAB1985** · 06-25-2012, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

As for the busts labels. I personally consider 4th rounders to be the maximum round where you can pretty much consider someone a bust. For example, if Gino starts in 2013 at center for us, and plays really bad, I am sure a lot of guys around here will jump at the conclusion that he would be a bust. I think it depends on what position it was when you're talking 4th round busts. I think there is barely any expectation for 4th round QB's, pass rushers, and corners, especially in their first few years, but I think the expectation raises for positions like WR, offensive linemen (not left tackles), safeties, etc.

good point, position probably does play a big factor in those fringe rounds.