In your opinion: Who is the most overrated Raven?

[Ravenswintitle]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story...rrated-players

timely!

[jonboy79]

Overrated Ravens:

Michael Oher
Joe Flacco (overrated by fans; underrated by general public)
Ray Lewis (old and slow)
Ed Reed (see Lewis above)
Matt Birk
Cam

That's pretty much my list, with grubbs no longer a Raven. My only contention is Flacco. I don't think he's overrated by anyone. I haven't seen anyone ever claim he was more thne a borderline top 10 QB, which he absolutely is. By Steeler fans and the like he is FAR, FAR underrated.
If someone thinks Flacco is one of the best few QB's in football already thne they overrate him. Short of that he is underrated.

Oher is definately the tops of the list though, as he is average AT BEST at RT and far worse at LT, and the average NFl fan probably thinks of him in a better light. Some Ravens fans still somehow think he is, despite seeing him prove otherwise week after week for three years now

[seraph]

Ed Dickson is overrated by Cam Cameron keeps giving him opportunities.

Ed Reed has been overrated for a number of seasons.

[mfdoom42]

I don't understand all of the praise that Birk receives either.

If I had to rank the top 3 he would be included.

He was a great player at one point and he's still a decent player, but a lot of people talk like he's the best center in the league.

PFF has him as the 9th best overall C and 3rd best pass-blocking C in the NFL last season. I'd say he still deserves praise.

[mfdoom42]

Michael Oher is the only choice that really makes sense. Ray Lewis & Ed Reed aren't overrated, everyone understands that they aren't as good as they used to be, but the fact is they are still both above-average at their positions. According to PFF, Ray Lewis was the 5th best ILB in the NFL last season and graded positively in all facets of the game, and Ed Reed was the 14th best Safety and graded positively in all facets of the game.

[wickedsolo]

PFF has him as the 9th best overall C and 3rd best pass-blocking C in the NFL last season. I'd say he still deserves praise.

The eyeball test tells me differently. It's a hotly debated topic on here regarding PFF's findings and whether or not they really translate to an accurate analysis or not. Some feel strongly that they do and others find it questionable. It is interesting how they arrive at their conclusions though, I will say that.

I know Birk is still a good center. He's smart, big, and he's still got some oomph to him, but I think you could make a legitimate argument that in a fantasty draft most GM's and coaches would take guys like Nick Mangold, Ryan Kalil, Alex Mack, Ed Wood, Max Unger, Chris Myers, and a few others before Birk.

[steelerhater]

That's pretty much my list, with grubbs no longer a Raven. My only contention is Flacco. I don't think he's overrated by anyone. I haven't seen anyone ever claim he was more thne a borderline top 10 QB, which he absolutely is. By Steeler fans and the like he is FAR, FAR underrated.
If someone thinks Flacco is one of the best few QB's in football already thne they overrate him. Short of that he is underrated.

Oher is definately the tops of the list though, as he is average AT BEST at RT and far worse at LT, and the average NFl fan probably thinks of him in a better light. Some Ravens fans still somehow think he is, despite seeing him prove otherwise week after week for three years now

I don't know about Oher. The guy on Football Gameplan was the first person that I recall saying that Oher is anything more than average. I may be wrong, but most fans and people in the media don't think too highly of him.

[wickedsolo]

I don't know about Oher. The guy on Football Gameplan was the first person that I recall saying that Oher is anything more than average. I may be wrong, but most fans and people in the media don't think too highly of him.

That's all the Ravens media coverage has been talking about this off-season is how good Flacco looks and how good Oher looks.

Oh and Ed Reed is MIA.

[steelerhater]

The eyeball test tells me differently. It's a hotly debated topic on here regarding PFF's findings and whether or not they really translate to an accurate analysis or not. Some feel strongly that they do and others find it questionable. It is interesting how they arrive at their conclusions though, I will say that.

I know Birk is still a good center. He's smart, big, and he's still got some oomph to him, but I think you could make a legitimate argument that in a fantasty draft most GM's and coaches would take guys like Nick Mangold, Ryan Kalil, Alex Mack, Ed Wood, Max Unger, Chris Myers, and a few others before Birk.

I'm not exactly sure how they do their rankings either, but it seemed that Birk really wore down at the end of the season. New England's 32nd ranked defense looked like the '85 Bears against him and the rest of the interior part of the line.

[steelerhater]

That's all the Ravens media coverage has been talking about this off-season is how good Flacco looks and how good Oher looks.

Oh and Ed Reed is MIA.

Looking good in OTA's isn't quite the same as during the season, but i hope they're right and he does play lights out this year.

[34wassmooth]

I think the center position requires much more intelligence than a lot on this board give credit. That's why the older guys hang around for years; they call the assignments and make the reads. Jeff Saturday may play forever.

Having a smart guy like Birk helps Flacco a lot. Maybe he gets bull rushed on occasion but he doesn't get out smarted IMO.

Hands down my pick is Oher

Agree 100%. Birk doesn't wow you, but he executes his assignment. Centers aren't called upon to maul people. They identify the front, call the blocking scheme, hike the ball and get in the way of the right person. Birk will get blown up now and again, but he's more than adequate.

[Corey]

That's all the Ravens media coverage has been talking about this off-season is how good Flacco looks and how good Oher looks.

Oh and Ed Reed is MIA.

But Oher looked like a very promising RT in his rookie year. The Ravens botched him by moving him around so much. I don't think its a stretch that he can rebound and be as good if not better than his rookie year.

I think he was definitely overrated as a LT. Ravens fans were actually pushing Jared Gaither out for him. It doesn't get more overrated than that.

[Mike B]

Yeah, really. RBs are probably the most replaceable player on a football team. Its silly when teams dish out huge contracts to "superstar" RBs when they are never going to have long careers. Every year there is a young stud coming out who is going to blow away the older guys. Teams like the Patriots and Broncos realize this. They never pay big money to their runners, yet always have successful running games. You don't need a superstar big money back, you just need a guy with talents that fit your scheme. Ray Rice is a good runner, probably not going to drop off much for the next couple of years, but is easily one of the most replaceable guys on the team just by virtue of his position.

Not sure your point answers the question though. The answer was who is over rated. I said not Ray Rice. Somehow you turned that into who is replaceable. That is not the same thing. Running back as you say is a position that cn be replaced if you have quality, but Rice is not over rated. He is a very good reciever, as well as a very good running back. Not over rated.

[JustaslowZ06]

Flacco is by fans certainly. Birk is by the media and(analyists). Boldin is just by name.

[Kevlar]

Not sure your point answers the question though. The answer was who is over rated. I said not Ray Rice. Somehow you turned that into who is replaceable. That is not the same thing. Running back as you say is a position that cn be replaced if you have quality, but Rice is not over rated. He is a very good reciever, as well as a very good running back. Not over rated.

Yeah I guess I was looking at it wrong. He isn't over rated as a player, just over rated for the kind of money he is going to be demanding. I don't think the Ravens should handcuff themselves to him with a big long term contract. Thats all.

[ravensnhokies]

I think the problem with rating Flacco is we really don't know his full potential in Cam's offense. Any QB in his system is going to be hamstrung. So honestly I cannot say whether he is overrated or underrated. Conversely, any RB in Cam's system is going to be big time highlighted, so naturally overvalued as HoustonRaven correctly says.

I will say certain aspects of individual players games are underrated or overrated. I'd say that Ray Rice as a runner is slightly overrated... lack of breakaway speed, doesnt maximum the gain when little yardage is available, and is not great in short yardage situ-s. Conversely, his contribution in the pass-game is underrated. He is a dynamic weapon that just isn't praised enough.

Flacco's accuracy is underrated. He is extremely accurate. I'd say his grasp of knowing what the defense is doing each play is overrated. He needs to improve this.

Other Overrated/Underrated Aspects of Individuals...

Ray's value in pass coverage.. Way overrated... Honestly should be off the field.
Boldin's ability to separate from DB -- Overrated
LWebb's coverage skills --- Underrated
Ngata's ability to beat doubleteam blocking --- Way underrated
Sam Koch pinning teams inside the 10 --- Underrated (although I will say 2010, he was AMAZING at it... 2011 he wasn't as adept)
Suggs passrushing prowess -- Slightly Overrated -- He is really good but not in the class of a Ware/Freeney/Allen/Cole at that specific skillset. Still think he feasts on weaker OTs and gets his Sacks numbers during those games (+ Pitt games when BigBen holds the ball too long) but does get shutdown by the best OTs in the league. (Look I'm not commenting on Suggs as the complete package b/c I think he is the best DE/Hybrid OLB against the run in the NFL)

[leachisabeast]

How about the whole offensive line?

The media and people outside our fan base (especially the Steeler fans) seem to have a notion that our offensive line is a top ten unit in the league. This was the case from 08 to 09, but since then our offensive line has been poor to average. We have had some overrated players on our line, and it has not helped the development of Joe Flacco or even Ray Rice lately. 2010 we where perhaps one of the worst units in the league, in 2011 we where better but nothing special.

[leachisabeast]

I think the problem with rating Flacco is we really don't know his full potential in Cam's offense. Any QB in his system is going to be hamstrung. So honestly I cannot say whether he is overrated or underrated. Conversely, any RB in Cam's system is going to be big time highlighted, so naturally overvalued as HoustonRaven correctly says.

Really? There have been several games where Rice has pretty much been a ghost to Cam, and in those games we have almost always lost. I would say Ray is slightly overrated as a runner outside of our fan base, and by the media, but probably not in our own fan base. When Ray breaks the first line of defense, that is when he is so dangerous, you cannot overrate that. He does need to work harder on getting those short yards too though.

Ray's value in pass coverage.. Way overrated... Honestly should be off the field.

I disagree with that, I think his pass coverage is underrated if anything, he is always getting bashed by other fans or the media for being some how poor in pass coverage, when actually he allowed fewer completions in his area than both Brian Cushing and Patrick Willis in 2011.

Boldin's ability to separate from DB -- Overrated

Is it really though? I'm pretty sure whenever I see something said about Boldin, his weakness of getting seperation is always highlighted, I don't think it's overrated nor underrated, he just isn't good at that aspect of the game and everyone knows it.

Suggs passrushing prowess -- Slightly Overrated -- He is really good but not in the class of a Ware/Freeney/Allen/Cole at that specific skillset. Still think he feasts on weaker OTs and gets his Sacks numbers during those games (+ Pitt games when BigBen holds the ball too long) but does get shutdown by the best OTs in the league. (Look I'm not commenting on Suggs as the complete package b/c I think he is the best DE/Hybrid OLB against the run in the NFL)

Very true, he isn't as good as the Jarred Allen or DeMarcus Ware type pass rushers at getting to the QB, he isn't that great as a pass rusher. But IMO as you say, he is probably a better overall player then all of them, and much better at defending the run, causing turnovers or making big plays (causing fumbles, intercepting passes etc.)

[srobert96]

Really? There have been several games where Rice has pretty much been a ghost to Cam, and in those games we have almost always lost. I would say Ray is slightly overrated as a runner outside of our fan base, and by the media, but probably not in our own fan base. When Ray breaks the first line of defense, that is when he is so dangerous, you cannot overrate that. He does need to work harder on getting those short yards too though.

I think rice is overrated as a runner by fans and people outside of Baltimore. I think he looks for the splash play too much instead of following his blockers and getting 3-4 yards. For every time he has had a big play there are at least a dozen other players where he has left the offense in 2nd 9 or 3rd and 8. It hurt the team big time in two situations against NWE and almost cost the Ravens the game against Houston where he could not convert short yardage situations. He needs to do a better job of getting the tough yards. Getting the tough yards is just as important as breaking the big play.

How about the whole offensive line?

The media and people outside our fan base (especially the Steeler fans) seem to have a notion that our offensive line is a top ten unit in the league. This was the case from 08 to 09, but since then our offensive line has been poor to average. We have had some overrated players on our line, and it has not helped the development of Joe Flacco or even Ray Rice lately. 2010 we where perhaps one of the worst units in the league, in 2011 we where better but nothing special.

I would agree with this. The Oline is way overrated. Grubbs and Birk are way overrated as is Oher who has been discussed. I really think it is a product of coaching more than the players. The steelers put together a line every year with 2nd stringers and retreads and by the end of the year they are playing well.
[/QUOTE]

[alien bird]

The most overrated Raven is the next guy the Ravens sign off the street. Half the posters here will talk the guy up like he's the next great find and is going to be the key to the offense or defense this year - maybe even a Pro Bowler.

Then the guy will sit the bench or be waived.