If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

**Kyle Cactus** · 06-27-2012, 03:56 PM

I've been hearing some good things about Flacco looking sharp in OTAs and minicamp (while he was there). Obviously you need to take that with a grain of salt, but maybe Caldwell is a good partner for Flacco.

It strikes me that if Flacco looks significantly better this season there could be temptation to replace Cam with Cladwell. At a minimum I'm sure we'd have some fans asking for it.

Of course, if Flacco does well that may reduce the heat on Cam anyway, so it's a bit of a catch-22.

As far as Caldwell's qualifications, I believe he's mostly been a QB coach before being head coach for the Colts. I would think that's enough if you're unhappy with Cam.

**leachisabeast** · 06-27-2012, 05:13 PM

Caldwell isn't a play caller, he's purely a positional coach, and I don't think he has any experience as an OC, and never called the plays as the HC in Indi either. I think if Cam finally gets ran out of Baltimore in 2013, we may be looking on the open market for a new OC. I guess if Caldwell where to be the OC, our offense would probably go a lot more WC.

**bmorecareful** · 06-27-2012, 05:39 PM

Cam Cameron will be with this team as long as John Harbaugh is. Same with Jerry Rosburg. Those are "His Guys"--they're not going anywhere.

**Ravenswintitle** · 06-27-2012, 05:39 PM

bring in Ricky Proehl as the new OC

**JAB1985** · 06-27-2012, 05:43 PM

I think you answered it yourself. If flacco does better its going to be less pressure on cam. I dont think cam is very good at getting the most out of his talent but as an offense weve been better and better i believe. Flacco has a 4k or 30td season he cements himself as our OC.

As far as leach pointed out if cam gets let go mid season hell take over but as far as a full time replacemwnt im sure theyd bring in some outside options at least and depending on whos available will dictate if hes the choice or not. Familiarity does go a long way.

**leachisabeast** · 06-27-2012, 06:13 PM

I actually would have liked to see Hue Jackson hired as the OC after Oakland fired him.

**He/Ate/the/Box** · 06-27-2012, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Kyle Cactus

I've been hearing some good things about Flacco looking sharp in OTAs and minicamp (while he was there). Obviously you need to take that with a grain of salt, but maybe Caldwell is a good partner for Flacco.

It strikes me that if Flacco looks significantly better this season there could be temptation to replace Cam with Cladwell. At a minimum I'm sure we'd have some fans asking for it.

Of course, if Flacco does well that may reduce the heat on Cam anyway, so it's a bit of a catch-22.

As far as Caldwell's qualifications, I believe he's mostly been a QB coach before being head coach for the Colts. I would think that's enough if you're unhappy with Cam.

I would think if Flacco does good Cam will stay.

**JAB1985** · 06-27-2012, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

I actually would have liked to see Hue Jackson hired as the OC after Oakland fired him.

I would have said the same before hearing he was an egomaniac and kind of an asshole to the FO. Im not sure but i thought he burned some bridges and our FO was kind of happy to see him go. Might be wrong about the last part.

**Terpsfan82** · 06-27-2012, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

Cam Cameron will be with this team as long as John Harbaugh is. Same with Jerry Rosburg. Those are "His Guys"--they're not going anywhere.

Bingo. Cam has a job for life as long as Harbaugh is employed. Sorry but he isn't going anywhere if he doesn't want to.

**GOTA** · 06-27-2012, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

I actually would have liked to see Hue Jackson hired as the OC after Oakland fired him.

That guy is a known backstabber. No way Harbaugh would want him here again

**Jayc00** · 06-27-2012, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

Cam Cameron will be with this team as long as John Harbaugh is. Same with Jerry Rosburg. Those are "His Guys"--they're not going anywhere.

Eh...that may have some truth, but I think it has more to do with keeping some sort of continuity under the circumstances such as the lockout last year and losing the DC this year. If Steve want's him gone then Harbaugh won't have much of a choice.

**Corey** · 06-27-2012, 09:27 PM

The only way to get rid of Cam is for Flacco to play absolutely terrible this coming season. If he plays even remotely close to the level we think he is capable of Cam stays.

**leachisabeast** · 06-28-2012, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

That guy is a known backstabber. No way Harbaugh would want him here again

Yeah but I didn't know that at the time.

**steelerhater** · 06-28-2012, 01:09 AM

Originally Posted by Jayc00

Eh...that may have some truth, but I think it has more to do with keeping some sort of continuity under the circumstances such as the lockout last year and losing the DC this year. If Steve want's him gone then Harbaugh won't have much of a choice.

Steve would have to replace Harbaugh if he wanted to get rid of Cameron. That whole lockout and continuity thing was just made up by the fans. Cameron is Harbaugh's guy and he'll stick by him 'til the end.

**The Excellector** · 06-28-2012, 06:06 AM

There seems to be some air that needs to be cleared here. Let's start with Jim Caldwell. Jim Caldwell not only worked with Peyton Manning, but laid the ground work for Brad Johnson. Although, neither he nor Tony Dungy were able to truly enjoy the fruits of their labor, in that situation.

Yes, Jim Caldwell does have experience calling plays and did so as the Head Coach of Indianapolis, at least, last season.

The system that Indianapolis runs has similarities to what Baltimore runs. The differences are that Indianapolis' system 'was' more pass heavy, and that they used more quick slants and 'ins' to set up their deep passing. The second difference that I mentioned is something that some fans feel has been missing here.

The relationship between Cam Cameron and John Harbaugh is overblown. First off, Steve Bisciotti and Ozzie Newsome have both made it clear that they prefer to win with emphasis on defense and running the football, rather than becoming a pass heavy team. That is a call that is coming from the top fellas.

Second, if Norv Turner hadn't been retained by San Diego, the Ravens would have seriously pursued him to be the Offensive Coordinator here. There was a lot going on with teams giving/withholding permission for other teams to speak to their guys. They wouldn't have had to go through that with Turner, but Turner was kept. They didn't have to go through that with Caldwell and that is how they were able to bring him in.

Personally, I do think that Caldwell is the bridge between Cameron's time and the new time on the horizon. Now, they don't have to search for anybody if they want to let Cameron go. They have someone within the organization who represents a similar fit to the offensive system they want to run.

**Jayc00** · 06-28-2012, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by steelerhater

Steve would have to replace Harbaugh if he wanted to get rid of Cameron. That whole lockout and continuity thing was just made up by the fans. Cameron is Harbaugh's guy and he'll stick by him 'til the end.

I think the contrary, the whole Cam is Harbaugh's man is a fan thing. If you think that Harbaugh would put his job in jeopardy in order to save Cam's ass then you're sadly mistaken.

Why would a winning team expected to make a SB run change their OC a year that the players would have less than a month to meet him and learn his offensive system?

**bmorecareful** · 06-28-2012, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

There seems to be some air that needs to be cleared here. Let's start with Jim Caldwell. Jim Caldwell not only worked with Peyton Manning, but laid the ground work for Brad Johnson. Although, neither he nor Tony Dungy were able to truly enjoy the fruits of their labor, in that situation.

Yes, Jim Caldwell does have experience calling plays and did so as the Head Coach of Indianapolis, at least, last season.

The system that Indianapolis runs has similarities to what Baltimore runs. The differences are that Indianapolis' system 'was' more pass heavy, and that they used more quick slants and 'ins' to set up their deep passing. The second difference that I mentioned is something that some fans feel has been missing here.

The relationship between Cam Cameron and John Harbaugh is overblown. First off, Steve Bisciotti and Ozzie Newsome have both made it clear that they prefer to win with emphasis on defense and running the football, rather than becoming a pass heavy team. That is a call that is coming from the top fellas.

Second, if Norv Turner hadn't been retained by San Diego, the Ravens would have seriously pursued him to be the Offensive Coordinator here. There was a lot going on with teams giving/withholding permission for other teams to speak to their guys. They wouldn't have had to go through that with Turner, but Turner was kept. They didn't have to go through that with Caldwell and that is how they were able to bring him in.

Personally, I do think that Caldwell is the bridge between Cameron's time and the new time on the horizon. Now, they don't have to search for anybody if they want to let Cameron go. They have someone within the organization who represents a similar fit to the offensive system they want to run.

Agree with you about the similarities between Indy and Baltimore's offenses--both are Coryell derivatives, although the Indianapolis brand under Manning was pretty far removed from the base Coryell offense.

Regarding Cameron, Turner, and the OC situation, I like your ideas, but are they supported by evidence? This all sounds like pure speculation, even though everything you're saying makes perfect sense. Norv Turner would have been a great option, but we have no evidence that the Ravens were interested in him. We have no evidence that they were interested in anybody but Cam. We have no evidence that the team is interested in having an OC waiting-in-the-wings as QB coach--see Jim Zorn who was fired simply for disagreeing with Cam.

**The Excellector** · 06-28-2012, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

Agree with you about the similarities between Indy and Baltimore's offenses--both are Coryell derivatives, although the Indianapolis brand under Manning was pretty far removed from the base Coryell offense.

Regarding Cameron, Turner, and the OC situation, I like your ideas, but are they supported by evidence? This all sounds like pure speculation, even though everything you're saying makes perfect sense. Norv Turner would have been a great option, but we have no evidence that the Ravens were interested in him. We have no evidence that they were interested in anybody but Cam. We have no evidence that the team is interested in having an OC waiting-in-the-wings as QB coach--see Jim Zorn who was fired simply for disagreeing with Cam.

They seem to like the system the is run. Zorn got along with Flacco, but represented a much different system. I don't really have much evidence, other than reports from Michael Lombardi that the Ravens would have heavily pursued Turner.

**bmorecareful** · 06-28-2012, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Jayc00

I think the contrary, the whole Cam is Harbaugh's man is a fan thing. If you think that Harbaugh would put his job in jeopardy in order to save Cam's ass then you're sadly mistaken.

Why would a winning team expected to make a SB run change their OC a year that the players would have less than a month to meet him and learn his offensive system?

This team has ranked 18th, 13th, 22nd, and 15th in total offense during Cam's tenure. There are better stats to judge offensive performance than total offense, but we've been bad in pretty much every one of them each year except rushing YPC in 09.

Not to mention the results on the field--even if our offense has had some good games, the unit has been terribly inconsistent and can anyone really argue that it has improved on the whole over the last 4 years? I would submit that the peak of our offense was in 09 and we haven't even been close since then. Even then, in our best year, we got shut down in the playoffs by a bad Colts defense.

As long as Harbaugh is making the playoffs his job won't be in jeopardy. As long as his job isn't in jeopardy, he will not fire Cam Cameron, the man who gave him his first real coaching gig. We've already seen that this team is comfortable with offensive mediocrity. Every bad offensive year and every bad offensive game, it's excuses, excuses--"there was a lockout, we lost our DC, it's the players' fault." How much more evidence do you need?

And about why winning teams make coaching changes--sometimes, teams want to get better. They can't get always get better with the leadership they have. There's always adversity in change, but you can't grow otherwise.

**srobert96** · 06-28-2012, 07:42 AM

If Joe improves and plays well than Cam's job will be safe. Part of me expects the oline to struggle and the offense to struggle with it and thus ending Cam's tenure. The reason that Cam was retained is because he is running the type of offense the organization wants to run. Before he could open up the passing game AFCCG the team had to fail at running the ball the first 3 drives.