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  1. #13
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    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?



    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    That guy is a known backstabber. No way Harbaugh would want him here again
    Yeah but I didn't know that at the time.




  2. #14

    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayc00 View Post
    Eh...that may have some truth, but I think it has more to do with keeping some sort of continuity under the circumstances such as the lockout last year and losing the DC this year. If Steve want's him gone then Harbaugh won't have much of a choice.
    Steve would have to replace Harbaugh if he wanted to get rid of Cameron. That whole lockout and continuity thing was just made up by the fans. Cameron is Harbaugh's guy and he'll stick by him 'til the end.




  3. #15

    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

    There seems to be some air that needs to be cleared here. Let's start with Jim Caldwell. Jim Caldwell not only worked with Peyton Manning, but laid the ground work for Brad Johnson. Although, neither he nor Tony Dungy were able to truly enjoy the fruits of their labor, in that situation.

    Yes, Jim Caldwell does have experience calling plays and did so as the Head Coach of Indianapolis, at least, last season.

    The system that Indianapolis runs has similarities to what Baltimore runs. The differences are that Indianapolis' system 'was' more pass heavy, and that they used more quick slants and 'ins' to set up their deep passing. The second difference that I mentioned is something that some fans feel has been missing here.

    The relationship between Cam Cameron and John Harbaugh is overblown. First off, Steve Bisciotti and Ozzie Newsome have both made it clear that they prefer to win with emphasis on defense and running the football, rather than becoming a pass heavy team. That is a call that is coming from the top fellas.

    Second, if Norv Turner hadn't been retained by San Diego, the Ravens would have seriously pursued him to be the Offensive Coordinator here. There was a lot going on with teams giving/withholding permission for other teams to speak to their guys. They wouldn't have had to go through that with Turner, but Turner was kept. They didn't have to go through that with Caldwell and that is how they were able to bring him in.

    Personally, I do think that Caldwell is the bridge between Cameron's time and the new time on the horizon. Now, they don't have to search for anybody if they want to let Cameron go. They have someone within the organization who represents a similar fit to the offensive system they want to run.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  4. #16
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    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by steelerhater View Post
    Steve would have to replace Harbaugh if he wanted to get rid of Cameron. That whole lockout and continuity thing was just made up by the fans. Cameron is Harbaugh's guy and he'll stick by him 'til the end.
    I think the contrary, the whole Cam is Harbaugh's man is a fan thing. If you think that Harbaugh would put his job in jeopardy in order to save Cam's ass then you're sadly mistaken.

    Why would a winning team expected to make a SB run change their OC a year that the players would have less than a month to meet him and learn his offensive system?
    "What would you give for the man beside you?"




  5. #17

    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    There seems to be some air that needs to be cleared here. Let's start with Jim Caldwell. Jim Caldwell not only worked with Peyton Manning, but laid the ground work for Brad Johnson. Although, neither he nor Tony Dungy were able to truly enjoy the fruits of their labor, in that situation.

    Yes, Jim Caldwell does have experience calling plays and did so as the Head Coach of Indianapolis, at least, last season.

    The system that Indianapolis runs has similarities to what Baltimore runs. The differences are that Indianapolis' system 'was' more pass heavy, and that they used more quick slants and 'ins' to set up their deep passing. The second difference that I mentioned is something that some fans feel has been missing here.

    The relationship between Cam Cameron and John Harbaugh is overblown. First off, Steve Bisciotti and Ozzie Newsome have both made it clear that they prefer to win with emphasis on defense and running the football, rather than becoming a pass heavy team. That is a call that is coming from the top fellas.

    Second, if Norv Turner hadn't been retained by San Diego, the Ravens would have seriously pursued him to be the Offensive Coordinator here. There was a lot going on with teams giving/withholding permission for other teams to speak to their guys. They wouldn't have had to go through that with Turner, but Turner was kept. They didn't have to go through that with Caldwell and that is how they were able to bring him in.

    Personally, I do think that Caldwell is the bridge between Cameron's time and the new time on the horizon. Now, they don't have to search for anybody if they want to let Cameron go. They have someone within the organization who represents a similar fit to the offensive system they want to run.
    Agree with you about the similarities between Indy and Baltimore's offenses--both are Coryell derivatives, although the Indianapolis brand under Manning was pretty far removed from the base Coryell offense.

    Regarding Cameron, Turner, and the OC situation, I like your ideas, but are they supported by evidence? This all sounds like pure speculation, even though everything you're saying makes perfect sense. Norv Turner would have been a great option, but we have no evidence that the Ravens were interested in him. We have no evidence that they were interested in anybody but Cam. We have no evidence that the team is interested in having an OC waiting-in-the-wings as QB coach--see Jim Zorn who was fired simply for disagreeing with Cam.




  6. #18

    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    Agree with you about the similarities between Indy and Baltimore's offenses--both are Coryell derivatives, although the Indianapolis brand under Manning was pretty far removed from the base Coryell offense.

    Regarding Cameron, Turner, and the OC situation, I like your ideas, but are they supported by evidence? This all sounds like pure speculation, even though everything you're saying makes perfect sense. Norv Turner would have been a great option, but we have no evidence that the Ravens were interested in him. We have no evidence that they were interested in anybody but Cam. We have no evidence that the team is interested in having an OC waiting-in-the-wings as QB coach--see Jim Zorn who was fired simply for disagreeing with Cam.
    They seem to like the system the is run. Zorn got along with Flacco, but represented a much different system. I don't really have much evidence, other than reports from Michael Lombardi that the Ravens would have heavily pursued Turner.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  7. #19

    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayc00 View Post
    I think the contrary, the whole Cam is Harbaugh's man is a fan thing. If you think that Harbaugh would put his job in jeopardy in order to save Cam's ass then you're sadly mistaken.

    Why would a winning team expected to make a SB run change their OC a year that the players would have less than a month to meet him and learn his offensive system?
    This team has ranked 18th, 13th, 22nd, and 15th in total offense during Cam's tenure. There are better stats to judge offensive performance than total offense, but we've been bad in pretty much every one of them each year except rushing YPC in 09.

    Not to mention the results on the field--even if our offense has had some good games, the unit has been terribly inconsistent and can anyone really argue that it has improved on the whole over the last 4 years? I would submit that the peak of our offense was in 09 and we haven't even been close since then. Even then, in our best year, we got shut down in the playoffs by a bad Colts defense.

    As long as Harbaugh is making the playoffs his job won't be in jeopardy. As long as his job isn't in jeopardy, he will not fire Cam Cameron, the man who gave him his first real coaching gig. We've already seen that this team is comfortable with offensive mediocrity. Every bad offensive year and every bad offensive game, it's excuses, excuses--"there was a lockout, we lost our DC, it's the players' fault." How much more evidence do you need?

    And about why winning teams make coaching changes--sometimes, teams want to get better. They can't get always get better with the leadership they have. There's always adversity in change, but you can't grow otherwise.




  8. #20

    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

    If Joe improves and plays well than Cam's job will be safe. Part of me expects the oline to struggle and the offense to struggle with it and thus ending Cam's tenure. The reason that Cam was retained is because he is running the type of offense the organization wants to run. Before he could open up the passing game AFCCG the team had to fail at running the ball the first 3 drives.




  9. #21
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    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    This team has ranked 18th, 13th, 22nd, and 15th in total offense during Cam's tenure. There are better stats to judge offensive performance than total offense, but we've been bad in pretty much every one of them each year except rushing YPC in 09.

    Not to mention the results on the field--even if our offense has had some good games, the unit has been terribly inconsistent and can anyone really argue that it has improved on the whole over the last 4 years? I would submit that the peak of our offense was in 09 and we haven't even been close since then. Even then, in our best year, we got shut down in the playoffs by a bad Colts defense.

    As long as Harbaugh is making the playoffs his job won't be in jeopardy. As long as his job isn't in jeopardy, he will not fire Cam Cameron, the man who gave him his first real coaching gig. We've already seen that this team is comfortable with offensive mediocrity. Every bad offensive year and every bad offensive game, it's excuses, excuses--"there was a lockout, we lost our DC, it's the players' fault." How much more evidence do you need?

    And about why winning teams make coaching changes--sometimes, teams want to get better. They can't get always get better with the leadership they have. There's always adversity in change, but you can't grow otherwise.
    I agree with you, but again it just wouldn't make sense to change OC's when the offense would have less than a month to learn the system, or when we lost a DC that would be too much termoil and a risk. Look at my avatar...I can't stand Cam, but the last two years it just didn't make sense to get rid of him. It's not about Harbaugh firing Cam like I said if Steve wants him gone than he's gone.
    "What would you give for the man beside you?"




  10. #22

    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    I would have said the same before hearing he was an egomaniac and kind of an asshole to the FO. Im not sure but i thought he burned some bridges and our FO was kind of happy to see him go. Might be wrong about the last part.
    This!!!!!




  11. #23
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    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by steelerhater View Post
    Steve would have to replace Harbaugh if he wanted to get rid of Cameron. That whole lockout and continuity thing was just made up by the fans. Cameron is Harbaugh's guy and he'll stick by him 'til the end.
    It sure looks that way. I thought there was no way Cam would be back this year. After that happened I'm leaning more towards your thinking on this.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  12. #24
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    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    It sure looks that way. I thought there was no way Cam would be back this year. After that happened I'm leaning more towards your thinking on this.
    I also am convinced that some of the approach is more to Harb's philosophy, let's face it he approves the gameplans. He wants to play conservatively at times and given his success it's hard to argue
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




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