If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

[Terpsfan82]

I understand and to a large degree, I do agree.
Here is my problem. It shouldn't come down to one play or two plays where the execution has to be absolutely perfect.
It seems like every game plan is set in stone and in-game assessment and adapting does not take place...or if it does, it is a quarter latter than everyone watching the game has already figured out. Why is that? I know there is a host of coaches up in the booth and on the sideline. Do they not see? Just wondering.
So...
Every play is pretty simple and the player HAS to be superior in ability to win the battle to make the play succeed. At the pro level, we are talking about the best to begin with, so to be superior at every position is a little too much to expect.
So... not just the game plan, but the designed plays have to create space for receivers, misdirection for runs and pass plays alike. Yes, Bill Walsh was great at this, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to design the plays to actually move the defenders around to create the needed space. The Steelers do it all the time with trips to one side.

And that is a huge flaw in the Ravens' offense. Flacco is consistently required to thread the needle while under duress and that is too much to expect of any quarterback.
Opposing players and analysts have stated the shortcomings of the Ravens play designs as one reason why they are easy to defend.

At some point, learning has to be taking place among the coaching staff.
Yes, Evans didn't hold onto the ball, but we could have passed all day long and deep, as well, if Oline adjustments had taken place and the obvious lack of any Pat defender keeping up with Torrey or Boldin (a short WR covering him and we don't throw to him-REALLY?!) underneath. Pats were next to last in defending the pass.

This. Fact is, the AFCCG should not have come down to that play. The Ravens were the better team. Period. Opposing players have stated onseveral occasions that they knew what play was coming before the snap of the ball.

[The Excellector]

I have not been the most pleased with Cam Cameron either, but I think that the dropped passes are the main issue. Now, an interesting debate would be about the impact that Cameron has on the rhythm of the offense and, conversely, the performance of the players. When you look at some of the better passing offenses in the league, they did not arrive overnight, sort of speak. Some of these teams put up a lot of yardage, but also turned the ball over often. However, the vibe I get is that the coaching staffs were willing to work through the kinks.

I have said this before. Manning's Colts were turnover prone before they became the efficient machine they are now remembered for. Green Bay's offense was also turnover prone. New Orleans' offense still 'seems' somewhat turnover prone.

If you do not give your passing offense enough opportunities to get into a rhythm, how does that effect their play? It has been said that WRs have a difficult time adjusting to a run heavy offense, only to then be asked to catch the ball when necessary.

I don't know, and I don't have the answers. I just thought that I might throw that out there. Dropped passes just seem like more of a personnel issue. So, if you change coordinators, how will that fix the dropped passes enough to see the fruits of better play calling?

[The Excellector]

There was another dropped pass, earlier in the game, that was very important. The Ravens offense was driving down the field, toward the end of the first half. On a third down, with less than a minute remaining, Joe Flacco hit Ed Dickson with a pass, right in his chest. I guess you could say that it was a difficult catch, because Dickson had to dip low and Flacco had to deliver it low, but he had it in his grasp and let the defender rip it away. They still had a TO left, if I am not mistaken, and could have moved closer to a FG. Dickson dropped the pass and they had to punt. You can take away the predictability of the play, but if guys aren't holding onto the ball........

[JimZipCode]

This. Fact is, the AFCCG should not have come down to that play. The Ravens were the better team. Period.

Are you sure? Vince Wilfork was the best player on the field that day – not a Raven. Brady is much better than Flacco. The Pats O-line are better pass blockers than the Ravens O-line. Gronk and Hernandez are better than Dickson and Pitta. Wes Welker was All-Pro last year. He & Deion Branch are better than Boldin and Torrey Smith, at least in 2011.

Seems to me the most you can say is that the Ravens had Ray Rice and better defensive personnel, the Pats had Tom Brady and Wilfork and better offensive personnel. Not that the Ravens were globally the better team.

BenJarvus Green-Ellis out-rushed Ray Rice in the game.

[JustaslowZ06]

Are you sure? Vince Wilfork was the best player on the field that day – not a Raven. Brady is much better than Flacco. The Pats O-line are better pass blockers than the Ravens O-line. Gronk and Hernandez are better than Dickson and Pitta. Wes Welker was All-Pro last year. He & Deion Branch are better than Boldin and Torrey Smith, at least in 2011.

Seems to me the most you can say is that the Ravens had Ray Rice and better defensive personnel, the Pats had Tom Brady and Wilfork and better offensive personnel. Not that the Ravens were globally the better team.

BenJarvus Green-Ellis out-rushed Ray Rice in the game.

Gronk was hurt, Overall our RECEIVERS gained more yards than theirs, RR was far superior to BJGE, the Ravens O-Line was ranked higher(somehow even though it's been widely debated on here at how bad they were).
Wilfork has 52 Tackles, 3.5 sacks, 1 FF
Ngata had 64 tackles, 5 sacks and 2 FF.

Go down the list, player for player the Ravens were surperior in every aspect, EXCEPT at TE and QB, and like I said before Gronk was hurt.

As for BJGE outrushing rice in that game? Yeah by ONE yard. Neither team could run the ball.

[leachisabeast]

Gronk was hurt, Overall our RECEIVERS gained more yards than theirs, RR was far superior to BJGE, the Ravens O-Line was ranked higher(somehow even though it's been widely debated on here at how bad they were).
Wilfork has 52 Tackles, 3.5 sacks, 1 FF
Ngata had 64 tackles, 5 sacks and 2 FF.

Go down the list, player for player the Ravens were surperior in every aspect, EXCEPT at TE and QB, and like I said before Gronk was hurt.

As for BJGE outrushing rice in that game? Yeah by ONE yard. Neither team could run the ball.

Good post. I think on paper it's arguable that the Ravens are the best team in the NFL.

[The Excellector]

Gronk was hurt, Overall our RECEIVERS gained more yards than theirs, RR was far superior to BJGE, the Ravens O-Line was ranked higher(somehow even though it's been widely debated on here at how bad they were).
Wilfork has 52 Tackles, 3.5 sacks, 1 FF
Ngata had 64 tackles, 5 sacks and 2 FF.

Go down the list, player for player the Ravens were surperior in every aspect, EXCEPT at TE and QB, and like I said before Gronk was hurt.

As for BJGE outrushing rice in that game? Yeah by ONE yard. Neither team could run the ball.

So, our WRs were better than their WRs, because they gained more yards in that game?

[leachisabeast]

And the only reason BJGE did ok against us in that game was because we where pretty much hell bent on stopping Gronk and the passing game.

[trailhiker85]

Are you sure? Vince Wilfork was the best player on the field that day – not a Raven. Brady is much better than Flacco.

As a rule, you can say Brady is much better than Flacco, and I'll agree. But that wasn't the case in this particular AFCCG. Flacco arguably outplayed Brady that day.

[The Excellector]

All I am really trying to say, I guess, is that if you want to keep force-feeding Rice and leaving Flacco to pick up the pieces with his WRs/TEs, then you will continue to get the same results. Those results please us during the regular season, but pain the fan in us come playoff time.

[steelerhater]

Yeah and like I said in some of those games the offense has CLEARLY under performed in them. In a deciding moment of that game how in the hell was it Cams fault that Flacco was stripped sacked which essentially lost us that game? Did you not watch week 1 of 2011 btw?

As I mentioned in a previous post, at the time flacco was not allowed to audible. He had to run the play as called. Everyone saw Polamalu coming on the blitz, but we didn't have the play called to do anything about it. Our receivers weren't running any patterns that would have allowed Flacco to dump the ball off quickly. This is totally on Cameron.

[leachisabeast]

As I mentioned in a previous post, at the time flacco was not allowed to audible. He had to run the play as called. Everyone saw Polamalu coming on the blitz, but we didn't have the play called to do anything about it. Our receivers weren't running any patterns that would have allowed Flacco to dump the ball off quickly. This is totally on Cameron.

Lmao, so Flacco couldn't have held onto the ball? It's Cam's fault that Flacco didn't just throw it away and lost the ball? Cam must be controlling Flacco on Madden in that case.

[handswarmer]

How quickly this thread can degenerate into game specific plays that show the entirety of Flacco/Cam's season.....laughable

[The Excellector]

If I remember correctly, Flacco was trying to throw the ball when it was stripped.

[purplepoe]

In position to win the AFCC, in a year where we:

• Lost our starting LG for six games, and had horrible O-line play during that time
• Got inconsistent play from our old, overweight LT
• Replaced two of the most sure-handed pass catchers in team history with young, first-time starters
• Then lost our #2 receiver to injury for most of the season, forcing us to start a rookie
• Had no 3rd WR for most of the season, due to the Evans injury and David Reed's issues, the rest of the guys being rookies

Compounded with:

• Our #1 receiver being slowed most of the saeson by a knee cartilage issue, but we still coax a thousand-yard pace out of him (pro-rate to 16 games).
• One of our best players on offense being a fullback who is a terrible, terrible receiver
• Our old center getting dominated, absolutely owned by the opposing NT in the AFCCG. Wilfork was the best player on the field that day.

I gotta say, the further away we get from the day-to-day detail, the more it looks like Cameron did a fantastic job last season. When you look at the big picture, the Ravens had a ton of personnel issues on offense last year. They were rickety on the O-line and hurt at WR. On, and while the All-Pro FB is a magnificent run blocker, he is a flat-out liability as a receiver.

Cameron dealt with all that, and he coaxed a thousand-yard pace from the slowed #1 receiver, a magnificent season from the high-draft pick rookie receiver, and got 900 yards and 8 TDs from the tight end tandem. And oh yeah, had his RB lead the league in yards-from-scrimmage. The more I think about it, the more brilliant it seems.

Cam is not perfect as a play-caller. Somewhere there is a fine line between the stick-to-it-iveness required to make something work, and the flexibility to make an adjustment when required. Cam is not at the sweet spot, he's a little on the stubborn side of that fine line. The Seattle game last season was an utter debacle.

But damn few people are "perfect" at play-calling. The best I've ever seen are guys like Bill Walsh, Sean Payton, Norv Turner, maybe Charlie Weiss. Guys whose play calls are breathtaking, and almost always seem to produce points. Maybe I'm missing some: but even those guys need a punter on the roster. The rest of the OCs get some right, some wrong, just like Cam.

Cam seems to be outstanding at structuring an offense that will let the players produce within their roles over the course of a whole season. I could stand to see a bit more flexibility / variety within a game, but I can't argue with the structure over the course of a season.

Bingo.

It cracks me up when I read how Cam isn't getting "the most" out of his offense. The talent on this offense is severely overrated by many fans.

Do people really think a guy like Sean Payton would march in here and turn this offense into an elite (passing) offense with the current personnel?

I know I don't.

PP

[wickedsolo]

Bingo.

It cracks me up when I read how Cam isn't getting "the most" out of his offense. The talent on this offense is severely overrated by many fans.

Do people really think a guy like Sean Payton would march in here and turn this offense into an elite (passing) offense with the current personnel?

I know I don't.

PP

Sean Payton's offense is an overall better design than Cam's. Sure, Brees is what makes that offense go, but Payton has done a nice job getting a lot of guys involved in the running game and he's done an even better job at getting the ball into the hands of his play makers over the years.


Also, considering the success of Brees and Rivers while under Cam and then under another offensive coordinator could logically lead someone to the argument that Cam's offensive philosophy isn't QB friendly and isn't WR friendly, ergo someone like Sean Payton could potentially get more out of the players on the Ravens' squad than what Cam has done.

[leachisabeast]

Bingo.

It cracks me up when I read how Cam isn't getting "the most" out of his offense. The talent on this offense is severely overrated by many fans.

Do people really think a guy like Sean Payton would march in here and turn this offense into an elite (passing) offense with the current personnel?

I know I don't.

PP

Are the Saints really that superior to us on offense?

Colston is in the same class as Mike Wallace, just below first tier of WR's. He is a good weapon for Brees, but not exactly a megatron or a Larry Fitzgerald. Meachem was a decent receiver for them, but he finished the season with less yards than Torrey Smith finished his rookie season for us. I will agree that Jimmy Graham is on a different level, and a top 3 TE in the game right now, probably his best weapon. Sproles is an underrated RB who is good carrying the ball, and receiving, but he isn't in the same class as Ray Rice.

The offensive line is a better unit overall, their tackles are nothing special, but do a better job than ours. They have the best left guard in football, but ours wasn't too bad either, and they have an overrated right guard that is secretly not as good as Marshall Yanda despite what a bunch of NFL network blog writers would want to tell you.

So yeah talent wise, they probably have an edge over us, but it's not quite as drastic as you'd believe. I am not a fan of Cam, but niether am I a hater of him, I think he has at times done a good job calling certain games for us. But lets not live in the clouds here, I am pretty sure Sean Payton would develop this offense into at least a top 15 overall unit.

[purplepoe]

Are the Saints really that superior to us on offense?

Colston is in the same class as Mike Wallace, just below first tier of WR's. He is a good weapon for Brees, but not exactly a megatron or a Larry Fitzgerald. Meachem was a decent receiver for them, but he finished the season with less yards than Torrey Smith finished his rookie season for us. I will agree that Jimmy Graham is on a different level, and a top 3 TE in the game right now, probably his best weapon. Sproles is an underrated RB who is good carrying the ball, and receiving, but he isn't in the same class as Ray Rice.

The offensive line is a better unit overall, their tackles are nothing special, but do a better job than ours. They have the best left guard in football, but ours wasn't too bad either, and they have an overrated right guard that is secretly not as good as Marshall Yanda despite what a bunch of NFL network blog writers would want to tell you.

So yeah talent wise, they probably have an edge over us, but it's not quite as drastic as you'd believe. I am not a fan of Cam, but niether am I a hater of him, I think he has at times done a good job calling certain games for us. But lets not live in the clouds here, I am pretty sure Sean Payton would develop this offense into at least a top 15 overall unit.

You left out the QBs in your list.

Yes, I believe the talent the Saints have on offense is clearly better than that of the Ravens.

An Oline that's better and a QB that's on a ridiculous level can make many play callers look damn good.

PP

[purplepoe]

Sean Payton's offense is an overall better design than Cam's. Sure, Brees is what makes that offense go, but Payton has done a nice job getting a lot of guys involved in the running game and he's done an even better job at getting the ball into the hands of his play makers over the years.


Also, considering the success of Brees and Rivers while under Cam and then under another offensive coordinator could logically lead someone to the argument that Cam's offensive philosophy isn't QB friendly and isn't WR friendly, ergo someone like Sean Payton could potentially get more out of the players on the Ravens' squad than what Cam has done.

This is the issue I have. You can't just brush off Brees like that. It's a HUGE thing to have a guy like that along with an OL that protects him.

I believe Payton is great at running his offense. But it doesn't work without incredible talent.

And again, I say the Saints have more talent than the Ravens on offense.

And I saw Torrey Smith make big play after big play last year as a RAW rookie who couldn't catch a thing in camp.

PP

[leachisabeast]

You left out the QBs in your list.

Yes, I believe the talent the Saints have on offense is clearly better than that of the Ravens.

An Oline that's better and a QB that's on a ridiculous level can make many play callers look damn good.

PP

I meant the weapons on offense rather than the QB. The weapons that the Saints have are not all that superior to ours is what I'm saying.