Flacco 9th on Jaws QB lists

**JAB1985** · 07-04-2012, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

I think that's a little optimistic.

Purely as a passer i think hes shown an ability to make any throw and his accuracy is greatly underrated. The only reason he has him 9th is because he doesnt have the stats to support being higher, which in this system he likely never will (see rivers, brees, etc). Doesnt mean his ability isnt top 10 or higher. Which is what jaws is pointing out here. His arm, and cutlers for that matter, give them abilities other qbs just dont have. You say optimistic, i say insightful.

**Haloti92** · 07-04-2012, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by JAB1985

Purely as a passer i think hes shown an ability to make any throw and his accuracy is greatly underrated. The only reason he has him 9th is because he doesnt have the stats to support being higher, which in this system he likely never will (see rivers, brees, etc). Doesnt mean his ability isnt top 10 or higher. Which is what jaws is pointing out here. His arm, and cutlers for that matter, give them abilities other qbs just dont have. You say optimistic, i say insightful.

The problem with this line of reasoning is that QB quality is predicated much much much more on mental ability than it is on arm strength.

The difference between throwing the ball at 60 MPH and 50 MPH on a 30 yard throw is about 1/5th of a second. That is a small fraction of the difference between the most mentally able QBs and the average QBs in terms of reading the play and getting rid of it.

All things being equal you want a big arm. But by far the most important quality separating the elite QBs and the rest is mental ability. This is why Montana was great and Boller was not; arm strength had nothing to do with it.

The people that think Flacco is closer to average than elite do not dispute the claim that he has a huge arm (same goes with Cutler). They just are not putting as much weight on arm strength as Jaws seems to do.

**JAB1985** · 07-04-2012, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by Haloti92

The problem with this line of reasoning is that QB quality is predicated much much much more on mental ability than it is on arm strength.

The difference between throwing the ball at 60 MPH and 50 MPH on a 30 yard throw is about 1/5th of a second. That is a small fraction of the difference between the most mentally able QBs and the average QBs in terms of reading the play and getting rid of it.

All things being equal you want a big arm. But by far the most important quality separating the elite QBs and the rest is mental ability. This is why Montana was great and Boller was not; arm strength had nothing to do with it.

The people that think Flacco is closer to average than elite do not dispute the claim that he has a huge arm (same goes with Cutler). They just are not putting as much weight on arm strength as Jaws seems to do.

Again this comes down to ones personal opinion. I think jaws is basically saying the mental aspect is there if placing him in the top 10. I agree it loses some with cutler whos more of gunslinger and has the ints to prove it but hes also had big seasons when he had a wr corps and decent system.

In all honesty i feel his rankings are miss titled eventhough the ranking seems about right to me either way. What hes describing is passing ability but labeled it as overall qb and maybe isnt completely consistent on his criteria.

Imo, the mental aspect is there even if he does have a mistake or two from time to time, so 1/5 of a second in a game of inches means a slightly larger window than the other guy and therefore can be a distinguishable trait. Again its nearly impossible to compare across systems and gameplans. Just looking at the ability to make the pass id have flacco at least top 10 and cant fault jaws for feeling the same.

**The Excellector** · 07-05-2012, 08:35 AM

There aren't many QBs who can make the throws that he can make. There aren't many QBs that can withstand the hits that he withstands, especially in this division. There aren't many QBs who show the resiliency that he shows, late in games, despite being in an environment that is non-conducive to developing QBs.

If I had to rank them, there are six that you could arrange as you wish: Brady, Brees, Manning, Manning, Rodgers and Roethlisberger. Then, you have Rivers, who I could put ahead of Flacco. I would probably put Flacco ahead of Cutler, but I can see the argument.

**JustaslowZ06** · 07-05-2012, 08:58 AM

Give Flacco Wayne and Harrison in their heyday, or the Saints receiving core, or...... AND that type of pass first system and I'd love to see what his stats would look like.

Wanna really compare stats, compare his to McNair's career wise, now I know Steve was on the tailend of his career but still. He was considered a top 10 QB in his day.

**BigPlayReceiver** · 07-05-2012, 08:58 AM

#9 is about right.

With Cutler coming in at #8, only SB winning QBs + Phillip Rivers stand between Joe and the top slot. Not bad at all.

**Sgt CouchPotato** · 07-05-2012, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by JAB1985

Flacco can make throws other "top" or "elite" qbs cant.

lol...yeah, and kyle boller could throw it through the uprights from 50yds out on a knee, lets see a superbowl mvp qb do that!

**JAB1985** · 07-05-2012, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Sgt CouchPotato

lol...yeah, and kyle boller could throw it through the uprights from 50yds out on a knee, lets see a superbowl mvp qb do that!

Boller wasnt half the QB flacco is, his mental side and accuracy was non existent, whether he could throw hard or not. I dont think arm strength makes or breaks a qb, but when you have two identical QBs in every other aspect, the one with the stronger arm is going to be a better player in that scenario.

**festivus** · 07-05-2012, 10:48 AM

Would everybody please stop quoting "sgtcouchpotato," who seems to prefer the unpopular side of sensitive message board subjects and can't/won't ever deal with actual facts and communicates mostly with points that are (a) irrelelvant or (b) exaggerations. There's a word for message board posters who exhibit that behavior.

Please. Stop with the quotes.

Thank you.

**Sgt CouchPotato** · 07-05-2012, 10:55 AM

poster states flacco makes throws that brady,brees,manning,rodgers can't make...and you say i'm making exaggerations? really?

**Ravenswintitle** · 07-05-2012, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

There aren't many QBs who can make the throws that he can make. There aren't many QBs that can withstand the hits that he withstands, especially in this division. There aren't many QBs who show the resiliency that he shows, late in games, despite being in an environment that is non-conducive to developing QBs.

If I had to rank them, there are six that you could arrange as you wish: Brady, Brees, Manning, Manning, Rodgers and Roethlisberger. Then, you have Rivers, who I could put ahead of Flacco. I would probably put Flacco ahead of Cutler, but I can see the argument.

Because IMO one of the things he needs to work on is pocket presence and feeling the pressure. He takes too many sacks/whacks. When he gets rid of the ball, he's amonst the top 10 in the league for sure. I'd like to see him scramble and/or get rid of it, even out of bounds, a little more often.

**Sgt CouchPotato** · 07-05-2012, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

Because IMO one of the things he needs to work on is pocket presence and feeling the pressure. He takes too many sacks/whacks. When he gets rid of the ball, he's amonst the top 10 in the league for sure. I'd like to see him scramble and/or get rid of it, even out of bounds, a little more often.

agree 100%

i believe only blaine gabbert and matt moore put the ball on the turf more than flacco this past year

**JAB1985** · 07-05-2012, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

Because IMO one of the things he needs to work on is pocket presence and feeling the pressure. He takes too many sacks/whacks. When he gets rid of the ball, he's amonst the top 10 in the league for sure. I'd like to see him scramble and/or get rid of it, even out of bounds, a little more often.

certainly one of those things that he has improved and can continue to, but in this system itll never be good. Long routes take time and lines can only protect so long, especially ours. Id like to see him do more roll outs as well, kind of like Shanahan used to do with Plummer and cutler just not as often.

**Iscull** · 07-05-2012, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Sgt CouchPotato

pardon me if as a football fan im critical of my favorite team and don't wear purple glasses like others on here..

flacco's career in the playoffs 8tds 8 ints...

he has been better in the playoffs the last 2 season... throwing 7 tds and only 2 ints...but in those 4 playoffs games over the past two seasons he's also put the ball on the turf 4 times....

has he had clutch moments in big games? sure.. has he had as many, (if not more) turnovers in big games? yes..

How many games has he won in the regular season? How many games has he won in the post-season? How many times has he gone up against one of the best defenses in the NFL year after year? If we are seriously debating if Flacco is better than Romo, I question how closely you follow the NFL...

**Iscull** · 07-05-2012, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by festivus

Would everybody please stop quoting "sgtcouchpotato," who seems to prefer the unpopular side of sensitive message board subjects and can't/won't ever deal with actual facts and communicates mostly with points that are (a) irrelelvant or (b) exaggerations. There's a word for message board posters who exhibit that behavior.

Please. Stop with the quotes.

Thank you.

And I just read this after I quoted him... my apologies.

**Iscull** · 07-05-2012, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver

#9 is about right.

With Cutler coming in at #8, only SB winning QBs + Phillip Rivers stand between Joe and the top slot. Not bad at all.

Honestly, top 10 is a perfect rating for Joe. Definitely has the strongest arm in the NFL. Can make all the throws. Has had a great record in the playoffs. Has had a great record during the regular season. Elite stats? I think we can all say no, but he is improving and is in a run-first offense.

**Jayc00** · 07-05-2012, 01:49 PM

Actually there are 14 QB's that were sacked more than Flacco (31). The names include 3 in the top 10 Brady (32), Rodgers (36), and Roethlisberger (40). He just needs to learn how to tuck that ball better when he's going to get hit, as he has at least 2 more fumbles than anyone in the top 10.

**Sgt CouchPotato** · 07-05-2012, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Jayc00

Actually there are 14 QB's that were sacked more than Flacco (31). The names include 3 in the top 10 Brady (32), Rodgers (36), and Roethlisberger (40). He just needs to learn how to tuck that ball better when he's going to get hit, as he has at least 2 more fumbles than anyone in the top 10.

flacco fumbled nearly 4x as much as rodgers and brady and they were sacked more...it's not as if flacco just had a bad year with the fumbles...he's been in the upper 1/4 every year...

drew brees was sacked 24 times last year and only fumbled the ball once...that's impressive..

**NCRAVEN** · 07-05-2012, 02:15 PM

Fumbles, sacks and pressure are all different things. You can get pressured and not fumble, you can get sacked and not fumble. You can fumble and not get pressured or sacked. Using sacks as a measurement to how often someone has defenders around them is shortsighted.

Flacco clearly needs need keep the ball closer to his body. But If his WR's got separation and/or he would take off running sooner (see NE playoff game) we wouldn't even need to talk about that.

I love these threads though and how ticky tack they get about knocking Flacco.

**arnie_uk** · 07-06-2012, 07:44 AM

i think flacco improved last year in throwing the ball away and scrambling, especially as the season went on. Id like to see it a bit more, but sometimes it isnt possible. What i'd love to see is play calls to get him out of the pocket a bit more, like in NE when Cam done it a couple of times. I also remember a few roll outs in the reg season, one against cinci, when he hit boldin on that crossing pattern, and that deep TD to Torrey was a rollout if iirc.

Lets be honest here, he isnt, peyton, brady, brees under pressure, but when he is out of the pocket, he is imo, one of the best in the league, and even if a throw isnt on his agile and mobile enough to scramble for a few yeards.

Roll outs, early and often will off course, stop some of the blitzing, which then means he will have a bit more time in the pocket, and we know what he can do when he has time.

When he is under pressure, heavy and often, he sometimes makes bad decisions, so design plays to get him away form the pressure, like roll outs, and then eventually, the pressure will subside when you keep him in the pocket.

Just my 2 cents on Joe. Under pressure hes about average in QBing, with time hes easily up around that 6-9 mark as a QB, jumping some QBs that would be better than him under pressure, but when given a second or two, arent as good as him.