The Freeh Report and the Future of Penn State

[HoustonRaven]

Reading some of the report right now.

Ugh. Disgusting is too kind a word.

So my question now is how do they recover? Is this the end of Penn State? This is damning on so many levels it's tough to see how the University moves forward.

[Terpsfan82]

Reading some of the report right now.

Ugh. Disgusting is too kind a word.

So my question now is how do they recover? Is this the end of Penn State? This is damning on so many levels it's tough to see how the University moves forward.

I agree. The NCAA should step in and give them the death penalty. They failed those kids on every level, all in the name of protecting the all important program. Fuck them. No football program for 10 years.

[B-more Ravor]

I agree. The NCAA should step in and give them the death penalty. They failed those kids on every level, all in the name of protecting the all important program. Fuck them. No football program for 10 years.

This is so much bigger than the football program. Yes, Penn State football is at the heart of the events, but this goes right to the top and is more, IMO, about criminal activity than NCAA violations. None of these issues revolve around student athletes, so it remains to be seen just how much authority the NCAA really has.

The Department of Ed and the prosecutors office - as well as multiple civil lawsuits - are where the penalties should likely come from.

Lack of institutional control will likely be the ncaa's stance. Punish those who deserve it but don't make others pay for their sins, that's the tricky part

Agreed.

But, I don't think "institutional control" was ever meant to apply to protecting an assistant coach. That's also the tricky part.

[camdenyard]

Calls for "death penalty", etc. are predictable outcomes of a mob mentality.

Yes, horrible injustices were done. But restrict the punishment to those that deserve it. Fire/prosecute those in authority, correct the governance issue, and put strong checks and balances in place.

Don't punish the football program. It already has new leadership.

[HoustonRaven]

Some of you want LESS punishment for a 14 year cover up where multiple boys were raped and molested than a recruiting violation?



So when a coach is discovered to have committed multiple recruiting violations, the schools program that's effected gets punished appropriately and sanctioned. But 15+ boys get buggered, school finds out about it, covers it up and now we need to filet out the punishments?

Wow. Ponderous to be sure.

[B-more Ravor]

Some of you want LESS punishment for a 14 year cover up where multiple boys were raped and molested than a recruiting violation?

No one is saying that those involved should - in any way - be less punished.

I'm just not sure that the NCAA is the appropriate authority in this situation.

You are correct that the NCAA deals with recruiting violations, etc., but they are not the authority to dole out punishment for criminal violations. This is new territory for the NCAA, and I'm not sure which - if any - of the NCAA's rules have been violated.

[Terpsfan82]

Some of you want LESS punishment for a 14 year cover up where multiple boys were raped and molested than a recruiting violation?



So when a coach is discovered to have committed multiple recruiting violations, the schools program that's effected gets punished appropriately and sanctioned. But 15+ boys get buggered, school finds out about it, covers it up and now we need to filet out the punishments?

Wow. Ponderous to be sure.

Careful. You may be accused of possessing a "mob mentality" lol. Seriously though, if protecting the sanctity of the football program was the reason that no one spoke up for these kids, then the death penalty is only a start. I wonder how they would feel if their kids were the ones that were raped.

[RavensNTerps]

Calls for "death penalty", etc. are predictable outcomes of a mob mentality.

Yes, horrible injustices were done. But restrict the punishment to those that deserve it. Fire/prosecute those in authority, correct the governance issue, and put strong checks and balances in place.

Don't punish the football program. It already has new leadership.

I'm sorry but I'm calling bullshit. In no way should the University be able to benefit financially from an institution that for years covered up a disgusting molestation ring involving a charity sponsored by the University. Why the hell should the school be allowed to benefit from that institution? There's no justifiable reason.

[DrUnk]

SMU was crucified over something that didn't ruin kids lives. Penn State should get a much worse fate.

[camdenyard]

So you are calling for "no football program for 10 years". And you think that is an appropriate response?

I'm all in favor of burning the perps (and we know who they are) at the stake. They were responsible. But I'm not in favor of carpet bombing an institution because it may have benefitted financially from the football program thriving.

[Ravenswintitle]

Lack of institutional control will likely be the ncaa's stance. Punish those who deserve it but don't make others pay for their sins, that's the tricky part

[HoustonRaven]

If I run a publicly traded company and I conceal bad PR to keep the stock price high, I benefitted directly and fiscally from said concealment.

The Felonious Four concealed 14 years worth of the most heinous PR possible and fiscally benefitted from that cover up via continued contributions and support from donors / boosters.

I don't see a distinction and the more I think about it, the more I hope the NCAA goes ahead and tries to enforce a sanction even if there is a chance it gets overturned in federal court. It may end up in court, but can PSU afford the bad PR that would come from that defense? I don't think so.

[esmd]

If I run a publicly traded company and I conceal bad PR to keep the stock price high, I benefitted directly and fiscally from said concealment.

The Felonious Four concealed 14 years worth of the most heinous PR possible and fiscally benefitted from that cover up via continued contributions and support from donors / boosters.

I don't see a distinction and the more I think about it, the more I hope the NCAA goes ahead and tries to enforce a sanction even if there is a chance it gets overturned in federal court. It may end up in court, but can PSU afford the bad PR that would come from that defense? I don't think so.

Yes, and you'd be prosecuted by the SEC/FBI. But they wouldn't force the company to cease operations (assuming it was still able to operate after you got done with your Enron activities.)

[festivus]

If I run a publicly traded company and I conceal bad PR to keep the stock price high, I benefitted directly and fiscally from said concealment.

The Felonious Four concealed 14 years worth of the most heinous PR possible and fiscally benefitted from that cover up via continued contributions and support from donors / boosters.

I don't see a distinction and the more I think about it, the more I hope the NCAA goes ahead and tries to enforce a sanction even if there is a chance it gets overturned in federal court. It may end up in court, but can PSU afford the bad PR that would come from that defense? I don't think so.

It would be a non-issue if the university would sack up and suspend the football program for a year. It would give them some time to think about how to proceed, too.

[PeterB58]

I am just now reading this thread, and I want to say that the commentary has been very insightful and respectful...lots of good information and points being made (I think my position on the "death penalty" changed back and forth a couple of times).

I keep going back the the Freeh report: http://www.thefreehreportonpsu.com/R...NAL_071212.pdf

Chapter 10 has their recommendations. Number 1: Penn State Culture

Those that are saying that this should be limited to criminal prosecutions, or that those currently involved in the football program should not be punished for actions they did not commit, miss the point, respectively. The culture was what allowed the actions to go on for so long unreported. It caused police and district attorneys to lean towards no charges. It allowed the school's disciplinary official to be overruled.

Has that changed? Maybe with Paterno's passing, it has. Maybe not, if the on-going reaction at PSU is any indication.

B-More Ravor: Personally, I think the University should self-impose a 4- or 5-year hiatus for the football progam and release all of the present players from their scholarship.

That would be the most perfect action (among many other actions) coming out of this mess, imo. It would show a clear indication that the University was attempting to change the culture. I don't think it will happen, though.

[rpcfball]

i found this article that talks about the holes in the report itself. i am not a penn state guy. i agree with you all that horrible and disgusting acts were covered up just to avoid bad publicity. so dont beat me up too bad. i just thought it was an interesting piece of objectivity http://tominpaine.blogspot.com/2012/....html?spref=fb

[festivus]

Just because some idiot wrote it on the internet doesn't mean it has any merit, rpcfball. The guy appears to be a knucklehead and his argument, unlike the Freeh report, appears to be a bunch of personal insults against Freeh and the "sheep" who would believe him.

He's either an apologist or some random internet knucklehead looking for the contrary point of view so he can get a few hits on his website.

To summarize: Not recommended.

[HoustonRaven]

Yes, and you'd be prosecuted by the SEC/FBI. But they wouldn't force the company to cease operations (assuming it was still able to operate after you got done with your Enron activities.)

Very true, but I'm not an advocate for them to get the death penalty.

[ActualSpamBot]

Wow that article was terrible. Apparently we're all "sheep" who are going to "be destroyed" by "a wrecking ball of truth and honesty." Personally I was destroyed by his wrecking ball of "unnecessary" "quotation" "marks".

[psuasskicker]

The report lists a cause of this scandal as "a culture of reverence for the football program that is ingrained at all levels of the campus." Now it has come out that Paterno knew about Sandusky's molestation accusations back in 1998 and lied to a grand juty about it. So why was Sandusky given permission by Paterno and the AD to maintain an office at the football facility and still be allowed to bring children around the facility through 2011? Clearly Sandusky did have an association with the football program. The NCAA has used the term "lack of institutional control" in the past when dealing out penalties, while a pretty generic term it would certainly apply here.

I haven't argued that. Lack of institutional controls is, in fact, exactly what I argued they WOULD get the university on.

'98-'01 likely will not be in question. Sandusky was originally investigated in '98. The investigation resulted in at the very least there not being enough evidence to proceed, and in all likelihood exonerated from any wrong-doing. It wouldn't at all be surprising to see a highly tenured and respected coach have a horrible accusation against him wind up going nowhere, and then be allowed to continue his normal activity. Think about Bettis and the rape accusation he faced as a pretty decent example.

Spanier was fired as president but he is still a tenured professor at the university so no, I'm not wrong. I get that you want to protect PSU but they have not punished the people that were involved and that's my point.

I don't want to protect PSU, stop putting words in my mouth. The point about Spanier is that he was fired from his president position, so how exactly can the NCAA sanction him or damage him via sanctions? Your claim was that they should only hurt those involved. Mine was, none of the people involved in this remain in their positions (save the BOD), the NCAA cannot hurt them via sanctions, and so therefor if the NCAA sanctions PSU, it will only be hurting people who were not involved in this horrible cover-up.

And no, I did not and am not arguing that the NCAA shouldn't sanction. I'm simply stating the fact of what a sanction does.

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