The Freeh Report and the Future of Penn State

**HoustonRaven** · 07-12-2012, 08:31 AM

Reading some of the report right now.

Ugh. Disgusting is too kind a word.

So my question now is how do they recover? Is this the end of Penn State? This is damning on so many levels it's tough to see how the University moves forward.

**Terpsfan82** · 07-12-2012, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Reading some of the report right now.

Ugh. Disgusting is too kind a word.

So my question now is how do they recover? Is this the end of Penn State? This is damning on so many levels it's tough to see how the University moves forward.

I agree. The NCAA should step in and give them the death penalty. They failed those kids on every level, all in the name of protecting the all important program. Fuck them. No football program for 10 years.

**Ravenswintitle** · 07-12-2012, 09:00 AM

Lack of institutional control will likely be the ncaa's stance. Punish those who deserve it but don't make others pay for their sins, that's the tricky part

**B-more Ravor** · 07-12-2012, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Terpsfan82

I agree. The NCAA should step in and give them the death penalty. They failed those kids on every level, all in the name of protecting the all important program. Fuck them. No football program for 10 years.

This is so much bigger than the football program. Yes, Penn State football is at the heart of the events, but this goes right to the top and is more, IMO, about criminal activity than NCAA violations. None of these issues revolve around student athletes, so it remains to be seen just how much authority the NCAA really has.

The Department of Ed and the prosecutors office - as well as multiple civil lawsuits - are where the penalties should likely come from.

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

Lack of institutional control will likely be the ncaa's stance. Punish those who deserve it but don't make others pay for their sins, that's the tricky part

Agreed.

But, I don't think "institutional control" was ever meant to apply to protecting an assistant coach. That's also the tricky part.

**camdenyard** · 07-12-2012, 09:24 AM

Calls for "death penalty", etc. are predictable outcomes of a mob mentality.

Yes, horrible injustices were done. But restrict the punishment to those that deserve it. Fire/prosecute those in authority, correct the governance issue, and put strong checks and balances in place.

Don't punish the football program. It already has new leadership.

**HoustonRaven** · 07-12-2012, 09:28 AM

Some of you want LESS punishment for a 14 year cover up where multiple boys were raped and molested than a recruiting violation?

So when a coach is discovered to have committed multiple recruiting violations, the schools program that's effected gets punished appropriately and sanctioned. But 15+ boys get buggered, school finds out about it, covers it up and now we need to filet out the punishments?

Wow. Ponderous to be sure.

**RavensNTerps** · 07-12-2012, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by camdenyard

Calls for "death penalty", etc. are predictable outcomes of a mob mentality.

Yes, horrible injustices were done. But restrict the punishment to those that deserve it. Fire/prosecute those in authority, correct the governance issue, and put strong checks and balances in place.

Don't punish the football program. It already has new leadership.

I'm sorry but I'm calling bullshit. In no way should the University be able to benefit financially from an institution that for years covered up a disgusting molestation ring involving a charity sponsored by the University. Why the hell should the school be allowed to benefit from that institution? There's no justifiable reason.

**B-more Ravor** · 07-12-2012, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Some of you want LESS punishment for a 14 year cover up where multiple boys were raped and molested than a recruiting violation?

No one is saying that those involved should - in any way - be less punished.

I'm just not sure that the NCAA is the appropriate authority in this situation.

You are correct that the NCAA deals with recruiting violations, etc., but they are not the authority to dole out punishment for criminal violations. This is new territory for the NCAA, and I'm not sure which - if any - of the NCAA's rules have been violated.

**Terpsfan82** · 07-12-2012, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Some of you want LESS punishment for a 14 year cover up where multiple boys were raped and molested than a recruiting violation?

So when a coach is discovered to have committed multiple recruiting violations, the schools program that's effected gets punished appropriately and sanctioned. But 15+ boys get buggered, school finds out about it, covers it up and now we need to filet out the punishments?

Wow. Ponderous to be sure.

Careful. You may be accused of possessing a "mob mentality" lol. Seriously though, if protecting the sanctity of the football program was the reason that no one spoke up for these kids, then the death penalty is only a start. I wonder how they would feel if their kids were the ones that were raped.

**DrUnk** · 07-12-2012, 09:38 AM

SMU was crucified over something that didn't ruin kids lives. Penn State should get a much worse fate.

**Terpsfan82** · 07-12-2012, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by B-more Ravor

No one is saying that those involved should - in any way - be less punished.

I'm just not sure that the NCAA is the appropriate authority in this situation.

You are correct that the NCAA deals with recruiting violations, etc., but they are not the authority to dole out punishment for criminal violations. This is new territory for the NCAA, and I'm not sure which - if any - of the NCAA's rules have been violated.

See SMU and Oklahoma, circa mid 1980's.

**HoustonRaven** · 07-12-2012, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by B-more Ravor

No one is saying that those involved should - in any way - be less punished.

I'm just not sure that the NCAA is the appropriate authority in this situation.

You are correct that the NCAA deals with recruiting violations, etc., but they are not the authority to dole out punishment for criminal violations. This is new territory for the NCAA, and I'm not sure which - if any - of the NCAA's rules have been violated.

Maybe so. I've read stories on both sides of this fence. And I am not calling for the death penalty for Penn State or anything.

But when boys are told by a Penn State coach, Sandusky, that they need to give him sexual favors if they wish access to the team and it's facilities, certainly there is something in the NCAA's prevue that would justify a punishment on that level.

**B-more Ravor** · 07-12-2012, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by Terpsfan82

See SMU and Oklahoma, circa mid 1980's.

Thanks for making my point. Those programs violated NCAA by-laws - recruiting violations, prohibited benefits to players, etc. - and were repeat violators (and had received previous punishment), which the NCAA's rule on death penalty calls for when applying the death penalty. They were appropriately punished, pursuant to those rules.

In this case, what the authorities at Penn State did was criminal, but not necessarily a violation of NCAA rules.

Again, what happened at Penn State is waaaay bigger than the football program. It show an educational institution that was totally out of control. The penalties should appropriately come from the authorities that deal with those issues - prosecutors, the State of PA and the Department of Ed.

**B-more Ravor** · 07-12-2012, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Maybe so. I've read stories on both sides of this fence. And I am not calling for the death penalty for Penn State or anything.

But when boys are told by a Penn State coach, Sandusky, that they need to give him sexual favors if they wish access to the team and it's facilities, certainly there is something in the NCAA's prevue that would justify a punishment on that level.

I certainly understand - and agree - with your point. I'm just not sure that the drafters of the NCAA rules ever envisioned this sort of circumstance. I would agree that there's probably a way to fashion an argument for some sort of punishment, but I don't see it being the death penalty (as some are calling for).

**Terpsfan82** · 07-12-2012, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by B-more Ravor

Thanks for making my point. Those programs violated NCAA by-laws - recruiting violations, prohibited benefits to players, etc. - and were appropriately punished, pursuant to those rules.

In this case, what the authorities at Penn State did was criminal, but not necessarily a violation of NCAA rules.

Again, what happened at Penn State is waaaay bigger than the football program. It show an educational institution that was totally out of control. The penalties should appropriately come from the authorities that deal with those issues - prosecutors, the State of PA and the Department of Ed.

You must have missed the part about U of Oklahoma football players firing Uzis from a balcony. That's got to be a crime somewhere.

**HoustonRaven** · 07-12-2012, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Terpsfan82

You must have missed the part about U of Oklahoma football players firing Uzis from a balcony. That's got to be a crime somewhere.

The NCAA didn't sanction them for that.

**B-more Ravor** · 07-12-2012, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

The NCAA didn't sanction them for that.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by Terpsfan82

You must have missed the part about U of Oklahoma football players firing Uzis from a balcony. That's got to be a crime somewhere.

Yes, it is a crime. A crime punishable by the police and prosecutors (and possible the ATF).

The NCAA, OTOH, did not sanction them for that because it was not a violation of an NCAA rule.

While I am sure that there are a lot of people higher up in the NCAA who would like to take action in the present matter, they know that they are bound by the rules that are before them. IMO, the NCAA is going to have a hard time making those rules fit into a death penalty situation.

**Terpsfan82** · 07-12-2012, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

The NCAA didn't sanction them for that.

I thought they did. I stand corrected.

**camdenyard** · 07-12-2012, 10:09 AM

So you are calling for "no football program for 10 years". And you think that is an appropriate response?

I'm all in favor of burning the perps (and we know who they are) at the stake. They were responsible. But I'm not in favor of carpet bombing an institution because it may have benefitted financially from the football program thriving.

**RavensNTerps** · 07-12-2012, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by camdenyard

So you are calling for "no football program for 10 years". And you think that is an appropriate response?

I'm all in favor of burning the perps (and we know who they are) at the stake. They were responsible. But I'm not in favor of carpet bombing an institution because it may have benefitted financially from the football program thriving.

The "perps" was like the entire institution of Penn State, though. That's what you're missing. You HAVE to punish the institution. This is no different than, say, the Enron scandal.