The Freeh Report and the Future of Penn State

[RavensNTerps]

The death penalty is important because as long as the institution continues to profit from the football program, the mentality will not change. Yeah, maybe the next time it won't be as egregious as what Sandusky did but the entire culture needs to shift drastically. Big time. Football is NOT Penn State and Penn State is NOT football and until that point has come across the problem isn't solved.

So one scum bag is in jail and another scumbag is dead rotting in hell somewhere. That's all well and good, but nothing changes. You should watch The Wire.

[psuasskicker]

Enron become a liquidation company, selling off it's parts to other companies to settle the bankruptcy claim. Enron no longer exists and is most certainly was "burned to the ground", thanks to the volume of pay outs.

They did become a liquidation company, but the point was that no, it didn't just get burned down. Many of the portions of the company were sold off to other companies and still operate today. Enron in its known form no longer exists. But it's simply not accurate to say that the company was burned down...it was disbanded.

I think you're parsing words when it comes to the claim "the entire institution is guilty". Nobody thinks the Bio-101 professor is guilty and should suffer directly. But when there are STILL people getting paid (sans Paterno, for obvious reasons) even though PSU is claiming the bad seeds have been removed, it's hard to argue anything other than the university, as an institution, is still doing the dirty deed of covering, ducking and jiving their way out of something of their own creation.

So yes, the entire institution was guilty. They are STILL guilty for the utter botching of the post report handling of the issue.

Even if you narrow it down to just talk about the football program and school executives, the "entire institution" STILL wasn't fully involved or guilty. There were other coaches and executives that didn't have any knowledge of this situation. Was it the heart of the university and football program? Of course, I don't argue that. Was it caused by an institution-wide attitude that the integrity of the football program was stellar and any impropriety would have a drastically problematic impact? Yes, I agree with that. I argue that it was NOT the entire institution, though.

- C -

[psuasskicker]

You should watch The Wire.

I have. Twice. Best show in TV history.

The "oppropriate response" in either case would be to make an example out of PSU in the hopes that no other school would let something like this happen.

The death penalty is important because as long as the institution continues to profit from the football program, the mentality will not change.

Not good enough.

We don't live in a country where you dish out punishment and simply hope that it changes the attitudes of other people. There needs to be reasoning behind it. The appropriate response is not give the death penalty, hope other institutions heed the warning and hope something like this never happens again. You bring down punishment because you're certain that's what it takes to ensure PSU and other programs heed the warning and ensure nothing like this happens again.

You don't punish because you assume the mentality won't change without the death penalty. RNT, you can claim that as much as possible, but you have literally no idea
a) that the mentality will not change if they do not impose the death penalty, nor
b) that imposing the death penalty will in fact change that mentality.
Until you know both of those things, you can't make a reasonable argument for the death penalty.

- C -

[srobert96]

I would like to see PSU self sanction the football team. Obviously football and the power that the program had was the crux of the issues that lead to the situation. I don't think they should shut down the program for a year. Here some of the things they could do. 1. Petition the NCAA to let any current players transfer without having to sit out 1 year. Obviously the situation is not great for the current players. 2. Reduce number of scholarships by 5 a year for a 5 year period. Offer equivalent school schollies to kids of abuse. 3. Donate all bowl proceeds for the next three years to a charity for abused children.

At the same time they are sanctioning the football program release steps being taken to manager sports programs and coaches. Well Documented and publicized.

[psuasskicker]

FWIW, no matter what sanctions get imposed, not just will not everyone be happy, but a majority of the people will think it's unfair. I have yet to hear one statement around what sanctions should be, where a majority of the people think it's the "right" answer.

No sanctions? PSU apologists are happy, most middle-of-the-road people are angry they got nothing, PSU detractors are pissed.
Death penalty? PSU apologists are pissed, most middle-of-the-road people are angry they got too hurt, PSU detractors are happy.
Something in between? PSU apologists are unhappy they got anything, most middle-of-the-road people are okay but most likely say "they should have gotten [more/less] because of [XYZ]," PSU detractors are unhappy they didn't get penalized enough.

Like I said, there's simply no easy answer here.

- C -

[HoustonRaven]

They did become a liquidation company, but the point was that no, it didn't just get burned down. Many of the portions of the company were sold off to other companies and still operate today. Enron in its known form no longer exists. But it's simply not accurate to say that the company was burned down...it was disbanded.

Semantics. The company was burned down the only way a company that large can be burned down, given it was the largest, most complex bankruptcy in American business history. It's not like the neighborhood Mickey D's getting shut down where you pad lock the doors and leave a hand written sign on the front door, saying "Thanks!".

You made the claim it still exists. It most certainly does not.

And I have a hard time comparing the largest, most complex bankruptcy in American business history with that of a school that covered up the buggering of more than a dozen children for 14+ years. It's a college with a famous football program, employing 1/100th the number of folks Enron did. That's all; nothing more. You treat it like you would any other college.

Even if you narrow it down to just talk about the football program and school executives, the "entire institution" STILL wasn't fully involved or guilty. There were other coaches and executives that didn't have any knowledge of this situation. Was it the heart of the university and football program? Of course, I don't argue that. Was it caused by an institution-wide attitude that the integrity of the football program was stellar and any impropriety would have a drastically problematic impact? Yes, I agree with that. I argue that it was NOT the entire institution, though.

From a legal (and moral, IMO) standpoint, the 4 top people ARE the institution. This isn't the football program of say, the Terps. Football IS the institution at PSU. Since football (and it's most famous football employees) were the very thing wrong with the institution, then yes, the institution is guilty, especially when we now know the cover up involved.

[Section 502 Raven]

delusion runs deep.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/paterno...28--ncaaf.html

[psuasskicker]

From a legal (and moral, IMO) standpoint, the 4 top people ARE the institution. This isn't the football program of say, the Terps. Football IS the institution at PSU. Since football (and it's most famous football employees) were the very thing wrong with the institution, then yes, the institution is guilty, especially when we now know the cover up involved.

No, I completely disagree with every bit of this.

Not sure how legally you mean that the top four are the institution, can you explain that more?

Football is what Penn State tends to be known for outside PA and it's what most people associate the college with when you first mention the school, but it's like that literally everywhere where there's a big football program. Football IS the Penn State institution no moreso than it IS the Ohio St, Florida, Michigan, Alabama, USC, etc institutions as well. The problem is, that's just not true. All of those are far more schools than they are football schools, no matter how you cut it.

I argued before that taking the football program away is a massive impact to the university. And it would be. But the numbers still say it's only around 3% of the university's revenues. You simply can't claim that something defines a university when it only makes up that little a portion of what the university actually entails. It's not like PSU is a little 300 student school which draws 100,000 people for its football games. Half or more of the student body doesn't go to the home games and Penn State - while deeply impacted by the football program - does not revolve around it.

- C -

[wickedsolo]

Starting RB, Silas Redd, purportedly to be transferring to USC before the start of the season.

A 3-star cornerback commit has also switched commitments to Michigan.