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  1. #37

    Re: Penn State Penalties



    Quote Originally Posted by festivus View Post
    The football program should not be running the athletic department, the university, and maybe the local authorities.

    This was an environment in which three people - two janitors and one assistant coach - *knew* what was going on, and all three chose to go to the football authorities, or remain silent, rather than the traditional authorities.

    The culture was sick, and the culture had to change. At PSU, yes, and maybe elsewhere also. Now they know.

    Isolating the handful of people who actually knew what was happening is missing the point, and would encourage Boards of Trustees everywhere to see no evil and hear no evil and know that as long as they don't know what's going on, it'll be ok.
    But thats just it. Maybe going to the local authorities wouldn't do anything. I'm sure sheriff andy and deputy barney were just as caught up in the JoePa hero worship as anyone else. They blew it off like it was just wrasslin and huggin. But Sandusky was fired from the team even when he seemed to be the heir-apparent. Which makes the whole mess even more fishy. Why dismiss him from the team but still give him access to the facilities?




  2. #38
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    Re: Penn State Penalties

    14 years ago I traveled to Niagara Falls. Throughout the entire state of PA, I couldn't travel 5 miles without seeing a billboard from PSU with the face of JoPa on it. The University chose to not only make him the face of their football program, but the face of their University!

    As many of you have witnessed, when someone is given power, the power goes to their head.

    JoPa took it upon himself to police his team and maintain the punishments that would befall the accused....even if it should have been done by higher authorities. The University kept quiet and allowed him to do so.

    I've seen reports on the BaltSun about previous athletic directors being told that they may wish to find another position when they brought up their concerns about the issues with his actions. These same statements have been shown on Sportscenter.

    JoPa was at fault..the University was at fault........ Punishment fits the crimes!




  3. #39

    Re: Penn State Penalties

    Quote Originally Posted by moose10101 View Post
    If the NCAA followed your logic, they'd never be able to punish any school. Is that what you're advocating?
    I didn't state that I advocated anything, so don't try to put words in my mouth. Penalizing the current 2012 PSU football players and student body for decade old errors in judgment by officials who are already being legally sanctioned is wrong. Period. Should you or I be punished for the My Lai Massacre of 1968? There is no logic that I can see for the type far after-the-fact sanction being imposed on PSU. There is good rationale for establishing statutes of limitations in our legal system.

    And the statement that the NCAA would never be able to punish any school is also greatly exaggerated.
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  4. #40
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    Re: Penn State Penalties

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    I didn't state that I advocated anything, so don't try to put words in my mouth. Penalizing the current 2012 PSU football players and student body for decade old errors in judgment by officials who are already being legally sanctioned is wrong. Period. Should you or I be punished for the My Lai Massacre of 1968? There is no logic that I can see for the type far after-the-fact sanction being imposed on PSU. There is good rationale for establishing statutes of limitations in our legal system.

    And the statement that the NCAA would never be able to punish any school is also greatly exaggerated.

    The students and student athletes are definitely going to feel the brunt of it, but this is also why the NCAA has granted them the ability to be released from their Penn State scholarships and transfer anywhere they'd like (D-1, D-1AA, D-2, etc) and not have to sit out a year.
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  5. #41

    Re: Penn State Penalties

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    I didn't state that I advocated anything, so don't try to put words in my mouth. Penalizing the current 2012 PSU football players and student body for decade old errors in judgment by officials who are already being legally sanctioned is wrong. Period. Should you or I be punished for the My Lai Massacre of 1968? There is no logic that I can see for the type far after-the-fact sanction being imposed on PSU. There is good rationale for establishing statutes of limitations in our legal system.
    Thank you for actually using reason and common sense.




  6. #42

    Re: Penn State Penalties

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    The students and student athletes are definitely going to feel the brunt of it, but this is also why the NCAA has granted them the ability to be released from their Penn State scholarships and transfer anywhere they'd like (D-1, D-1AA, D-2, etc) and not have to sit out a year.

    Right, the students don't have to go down with the ship. They are free to transfer to any other instituition of their choice with no sanctions from the NCAA.

    If they choose to stay at Pedophile U that is on them.




  7. #43

    Re: Penn State Penalties

    Quote Originally Posted by strez View Post
    Thank you for actually using reason and common sense.
    It's called "deterrence." Mista T doesn't see it, you apparently don't see it, but deterrence is actually supported by reason and common sense. "Do not let the football team run the university again, Penn State, and do not let the sports teams run your universities either, NCAA schools, or we will drop the mother @#$!ing hammer on you and your students and your boosters will weep, but we will not have sympathy. Security and the rule of law are more important than your precious football team."

    That's deterrence. Like it, don't like it, I don't care. It is perfectly logical, and it is supported by common sense.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  8. #44

    Re: Penn State Penalties

    - Vacating wins was done because had they come forward with announcing Sandusky's problems in '01, it would have hurt the reputation of the school and program, which would have hurt recruiting and the viability of the program. Thus it created a competitive imbalance. Thus, vacate wins during that time. Doing so from '98 was stupid and arbitrary. Sandusky was formally investigated and cleared. I don't think I've heard anyone in the PSU administration alleged to have done something wrong between '98 and '01.

    - Punishment always results in unintended victims. If I murder a person, I'm thrown in prison. My daughters are victims now because they no longer have the support structure I bring them. Should I not be thrown in prison to avoid hurting my daughters?

    - Anyone sayins some version of "It would have been better had they just given them the death penalty" has no concept of what the death penalty truly does to a program. No, death penalty, even for only one year, would not have been better.

    These penalties seem fair, but who the hell knows. This situation is completely unprecedented, so who am I (or any of us) to say if they really are fair or not?

    - C -
    ---------------------------------------------------

    www.oblongspheroid.com

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  9. #45

    Re: Penn State Penalties

    Quote Originally Posted by psuasskicker View Post
    - Vacating wins was done because had they come forward with announcing Sandusky's problems in '01, it would have hurt the reputation of the school and program, which would have hurt recruiting and the viability of the program. Thus it created a competitive imbalance. Thus, vacate wins during that time. Doing so from '98 was stupid and arbitrary. Sandusky was formally investigated and cleared. I don't think I've heard anyone in the PSU administration alleged to have done something wrong between '98 and '01.

    - Punishment always results in unintended victims. If I murder a person, I'm thrown in prison. My daughters are victims now because they no longer have the support structure I bring them. Should I not be thrown in prison to avoid hurting my daughters?

    - Anyone sayins some version of "It would have been better had they just given them the death penalty" has no concept of what the death penalty truly does to a program. No, death penalty, even for only one year, would not have been better.

    These penalties seem fair, but who the hell knows. This situation is completely unprecedented, so who am I (or any of us) to say if they really are fair or not?

    - C -
    You've been very levelheaded about this whole thing, PSU.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  10. #46

    Re: Penn State Penalties

    Quote Originally Posted by psuasskicker View Post
    - Vacating wins was done because had they come forward with announcing Sandusky's problems in '01, it would have hurt the reputation of the school and program, which would have hurt recruiting and the viability of the program. Thus it created a competitive imbalance. Thus, vacate wins during that time. Doing so from '98 was stupid and arbitrary. Sandusky was formally investigated and cleared. I don't think I've heard anyone in the PSU administration alleged to have done something wrong between '98 and '01.
    I believe they are saying that Sandusky was investigated in '98 and that investigation was hushed and swept under the rug just like they tried to do with the mcquery investigation in '01. A victim actually came forward in '98 but the prosecutor declined to press charges. A prosecutor who later disappeared? Probably paid off handsomely and living in tahiti.




  11. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by festivus View Post

    It is perfectly logical, and it is supported by common sense.
    So? How is that the measuring stick for whether or not it was a just ruling?

    Your saying "common sense" as if this issue were as simple as '1+1=2' far from it. This ruling wasn't simply a result of objective necessity. Just the fact that a board met and discussed the ramifications says otherwise.
    Last edited by Sirdowski; 07-24-2012 at 02:59 PM.
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




  12. #48

    Re: Penn State Penalties

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevlar View Post
    I believe they are saying that Sandusky was investigated in '98 and that investigation was hushed and swept under the rug just like they tried to do with the mcquery investigation in '01. A victim actually came forward in '98 but the prosecutor declined to press charges. A prosecutor who later disappeared? Probably paid off handsomely and living in tahiti.
    Yeah I get what they're saying, it just makes no sense. It wasn't swept under the rug. Investigations are supposed to stay silent. First, the person being investigated shouldn't know they are being investigated if it can be avoided, as it compromises the integrity of the investigations. Exception being if someone else is in danger and you need to get them out of danger, then it should be known. Once he's exonerated, reporting further on it should NOT be done.

    And you're being way too idealistic. The DA you're talking about was FAR more likely killed.

    - C -
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    A blog about any and everything football.

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