Steelers Ink Antonio Brown

**wickedsolo** · 07-30-2012, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by TheJoeFlaccoShow

Sorry to burst your bubble, but 26 yr old 1200 yd receivers on the open market get paid. They are available....hardly ever.

And he won't be sitting out the whole year, he can't. He will play the last 6 games and playoffs and will have plenty of suitors in 2013, believe that.

I doubt Wallace hits the market for at least 1 more season after this. By signing Brown they've freed up the opportunity to use the franchise tag on Wallace next year. It'll be expensive, but possible and it will keep Wallace in Pittsburgh for at least 1 more season.

I know the Steelers WANT to sign him long term, but financially I don't think they could without really limiting their future. They really have very little depth at WR right now. I can't believe I'm saying this, but if Wallace doesn't play (for whatever reason) I think I like the Ravens' receiver depth better...

Antonio Brown
Emmanuel Sanders
Jericho Cotchery

That's not a bad top 3 although Brown is the only one who has proven to be an effective starter. Sanders has upside, but hasn't done nearly what Brown has done. Cotchery is old, slow, and more of a slot guy.

Marquis Maze - good college player, but probably will be a ST's guy in the NFL if he catches on with a team. He's 5'8".
Derrick Williams - couldn't hang with Detroit and it's not like Detroit has been a beacon of talented receivers outside of Megatron.
Tyler Beller - who?
Toney Clemons - big possession guy out of Colorado (6'2" 220lbs). Might make the team as the 5th or 6th WR.
David Gilreath - decent college reciver...very undersized though. He's like 165lbs and he's not overly fast either.
Juamorris Stewart - who?
Jimmy Young - Not a bad depth receiver/project guy to have. Decent player at TCU.

So, realistically, IF Mike Wallace sits out you're looking at a very underwhelming WR unit.

IMO, they don't have a choice but to try and work something out with Wallace otherwise their passing offense is going to be difficult to work with just from a talent perspective. I can't believe they aren't considering Plax or even TO just for some depth.

**TheJoeFlaccoShow** · 07-30-2012, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I doubt Wallace hits the market for at least 1 more season after this. By signing Brown they've freed up the opportunity to use the franchise tag on Wallace next year. It'll be expensive, but possible and it will keep Wallace in Pittsburgh for at least 1 more season.

I know the Steelers WANT to sign him long term, but financially I don't think they could without really limiting their future. They really have very little depth at WR right now. I can't believe I'm saying this, but if Wallace doesn't play (for whatever reason) I think I like the Ravens' receiver depth better...

Antonio Brown
Emmanuel Sanders
Jericho Cotchery

That's not a bad top 3 although Brown is the only one who has proven to be an effective starter. Sanders has upside, but hasn't done nearly what Brown has done. Cotchery is old, slow, and more of a slot guy.

Marquis Maze - good college player, but probably will be a ST's guy in the NFL if he catches on with a team. He's 5'8".
Derrick Williams - couldn't hang with Detroit and it's not like Detroit has been a beacon of talented receivers outside of Megatron.
Tyler Beller - who?
Toney Clemons - big possession guy out of Colorado (6'2" 220lbs). Might make the team as the 5th or 6th WR.
David Gilreath - decent college reciver...very undersized though. He's like 165lbs and he's not overly fast either.
Juamorris Stewart - who?
Jimmy Young - Not a bad depth receiver/project guy to have. Decent player at TCU.

So, realistically, IF Mike Wallace sits out you're looking at a very underwhelming WR unit.

IMO, they don't have a choice but to try and work something out with Wallace otherwise their passing offense is going to be difficult to work with just from a talent perspective. I can't believe they aren't considering Plax or even TO just for some depth.

Wicked, they don't have the money to franchise him.

Trust me on this one. They are going to be hard pressed to field a team with how bad the cap situation is, it is unlike anything I have ever seen before. Instead of making some tough choices this year, they kicked the can down the road to 2013 and it is flat out ugly the position they are in next year. They counted on the cap going up and it is staying flat.

Right now they have 31 players for 2013 taking up 125 million. 31!! They have restructured to the hilt the past 2 years and can't even release a lot of players to save big because the dead money will negate the savings......from all the restructuring.

http://steelersspreadsheet.wordpress.com/

Only way they would have money to franchise Wallace is a straight purge ala 2002 Ravens. Honestly they might have to do that even without Wallace it is that bad.

I might write up a detailed article sometime soon to explain it a little better and go player by player, and how they got in this position. They sold out the past two years to keep their core together, and they are going to be paying for it dearly in 2013.

**TheJoeFlaccoShow** · 07-30-2012, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I doubt Wallace hits the market for at least 1 more season after this. By signing Brown they've freed up the opportunity to use the franchise tag on Wallace next year. It'll be expensive, but possible and it will keep Wallace in Pittsburgh for at least 1 more season.

I know the Steelers WANT to sign him long term, but financially I don't think they could without really limiting their future. They really have very little depth at WR right now. I can't believe I'm saying this, but if Wallace doesn't play (for whatever reason) I think I like the Ravens' receiver depth better...

Antonio Brown
Emmanuel Sanders
Jericho Cotchery

That's not a bad top 3 although Brown is the only one who has proven to be an effective starter. Sanders has upside, but hasn't done nearly what Brown has done. Cotchery is old, slow, and more of a slot guy.

Marquis Maze - good college player, but probably will be a ST's guy in the NFL if he catches on with a team. He's 5'8".
Derrick Williams - couldn't hang with Detroit and it's not like Detroit has been a beacon of talented receivers outside of Megatron.
Tyler Beller - who?
Toney Clemons - big possession guy out of Colorado (6'2" 220lbs). Might make the team as the 5th or 6th WR.
David Gilreath - decent college reciver...very undersized though. He's like 165lbs and he's not overly fast either.
Juamorris Stewart - who?
Jimmy Young - Not a bad depth receiver/project guy to have. Decent player at TCU.

So, realistically, IF Mike Wallace sits out you're looking at a very underwhelming WR unit.

IMO, they don't have a choice but to try and work something out with Wallace otherwise their passing offense is going to be difficult to work with just from a talent perspective. I can't believe they aren't considering Plax or even TO just for some depth.

Wicked, they don't have the money to franchise him.

Trust me on this one. They are going to be hard pressed to field a team with how bad the cap situation is, it is unlike anything I have ever seen before. Instead of making some tough choices this year, they kicked the can down the road to 2013 and it is flat out ugly the position they are in next year. They counted on the cap going up and it is staying flat.

Right now they have 31 players for 2013 taking up 125 million. 31!! They have restructured to the hilt the past 2 years and can't even release a lot of players to save big because the dead money will negate the savings......from all the restructuring.

http://steelersspreadsheet.wordpress.com/

Only way they would have money to franchise Wallace is a straight purge ala 2002 Ravens. Honestly they might have to do that even without Wallace it is that bad.

I might write up a detailed article sometime soon to explain it a little better and go player by player, and how they got in this position. They sold out the past two years to keep their core together, and they are going to be paying for it dearly in 2013.

**JAB1985** · 07-30-2012, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by TheJoeFlaccoShow

Wicked, they don't have the money to franchise him.

Trust me on this one. They are going to be hard pressed to field a team with how bad the cap situation is, it is unlike anything I have ever seen before. Instead of making some tough choices this year, they kicked the can down the road to 2013 and it is flat out ugly the position they are in next year. They counted on the cap going up and it is staying flat.

Right now they have 31 players for 2013 taking up 125 million. 31!! They have restructured to the hilt the past 2 years and can't even release a lot of players to save big because the dead money will negate the savings......from all the restructuring.

http://steelersspreadsheet.wordpress.com/

Only way they would have money to franchise Wallace is a straight purge ala 2002 Ravens. Honestly they might have to do that even without Wallace it is that bad.

I might write up a detailed article sometime soon to explain it a little better and go player by player, and how they got in this position. They sold out the past two years to keep their core together, and they are going to be paying for it dearly in 2013.

From the numbers youre posting i think that much is clear. Its not about want as wicked stated, clearly theyd rather have him than not, its about ability to actually do it. I really thought theyd have to purge this year, luckily they used the rfa tender as opposed to franchise, gambling nobody would spend a first for him correctly. They certainly did mortgage their future though with those restructures. Im not sure who our cap guy is but im thankful that we never do that so we can be consistent year in year out and keep the window open longer. Please do post the blog here, its interesting the differences in how were run and whos possibly getting axe, besides harrison who seems pretty likely.

**Benny8444** · 07-30-2012, 05:22 PM

Casey Hampton will get cut as well and possibly Ryan clark and more to come. They can also kiss mendenhall good bye as well

**TheJoeFlaccoShow** · 07-30-2012, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by JAB1985

From the numbers youre posting i think that much is clear. Its not about want as wicked stated, clearly theyd rather have him than not, its about ability to actually do it. I really thought theyd have to purge this year, luckily they used the rfa tender as opposed to franchise, gambling nobody would spend a first for him correctly. They certainly did mortgage their future though with those restructures. Im not sure who our cap guy is but im thankful that we never do that so we can be consistent year in year out and keep the window open longer. Please do post the blog here, its interesting the differences in how were run and whos possibly getting axe, besides harrison who seems pretty likely.

One thing I messed up on after looking at my spreadsheet, Harrison has TWO years left after this one and NOT one! That is a HUGE difference. They can't release him, it wouldn't save any money. So next year they will have a 35 year old pass rusher who is already in decline taking up 11 million in cap space...and they are stuck with him.

Wow....it is even worse than I thought.

And to the Ravens for a comparison, they have the next 2 years right around 80 million with their top 12 guys, including if Lewis and Reed stay around and extension for Flacco. If for some reason Lewis and Reed aren't around we are at about $70 million.

Steelers on the other hand are at 100 million again in 2014, and that is with only 10 big contracts not 12 like the Ravens have accounted for. That is with Hampton, Keisel, and Clark coming off the books.

The future is bright for us and the division for the next couple years, that is for damn sure.

I will try to work on the article, but it is going to take some time crunching all these numbers in depth and figuring out just how in the hell they are going to deal with this.

**wickedsolo** · 07-30-2012, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by TheJoeFlaccoShow

Wicked, they don't have the money to franchise him.

Trust me on this one. They are going to be hard pressed to field a team with how bad the cap situation is, it is unlike anything I have ever seen before. Instead of making some tough choices this year, they kicked the can down the road to 2013 and it is flat out ugly the position they are in next year. They counted on the cap going up and it is staying flat.

Right now they have 31 players for 2013 taking up 125 million. 31!! They have restructured to the hilt the past 2 years and can't even release a lot of players to save big because the dead money will negate the savings......from all the restructuring.

http://steelersspreadsheet.wordpress.com/

Only way they would have money to franchise Wallace is a straight purge ala 2002 Ravens. Honestly they might have to do that even without Wallace it is that bad.

I might write up a detailed article sometime soon to explain it a little better and go player by player, and how they got in this position. They sold out the past two years to keep their core together, and they are going to be paying for it dearly in 2013.

They're going to have to purge. I don't see what choice they have unless they keep pushing money into future caps, but sooner or later that will catch up.

I think the Steelers will still be competitive, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them very young and inexperienced for the next few years...

Max Starks, Casey Hampton, Larry Foote, Ryan Clark, Heath Miller, Willie Colon, Rashard Mendenhall, James Harrison...none of those guys should be feeling real comfortable right now.

Also, you know at some point in the next few years guys like Lawrence Timmons, Pouncey, Sanders, etc are all going to be wanting contracts.

**TheJoeFlaccoShow** · 07-30-2012, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

They're going to have to purge. I don't see what choice they have unless they keep pushing money into future caps, but sooner or later that will catch up.

I think the Steelers will still be competitive, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them very young and inexperienced for the next few years...

Max Starks, Casey Hampton, Larry Foote, Ryan Clark, Heath Miller, Willie Colon, Rashard Mendenhall, James Harrison...none of those guys should be feeling real comfortable right now.

Also, you know at some point in the next few years guys like Lawrence Timmons, Pouncey, Sanders, etc are all going to be wanting contracts.

The more I look at this the more I am thinking they don't have any other options.

The problem is they have restructured all of the top deals, so even if they decide to bite the bullet and start cutting guys the savings just aren't going to be there with the dead money. They could have lessened the pain by starting this process in 2012, and spread it out over 2 years into 2013. Instead they did they opposite, tried to hang on for one more year and prayed the cap would go up to help them. It backfired.

I am working on an article right now, going player by player and seeing if there is any possible way to make this work. Not seeing it, even with a purge.

**wickedsolo** · 07-30-2012, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by TheJoeFlaccoShow

One thing I messed up on after looking at my spreadsheet, Harrison has TWO years left after this one and NOT one! That is a HUGE difference. They can't release him, it wouldn't save any money. So next year they will have a 35 year old pass rusher who is already in decline taking up 11 million in cap space...and they are stuck with him.

Wow....it is even worse than I thought.

And to the Ravens for a comparison, they have the next 2 years right around 80 million with their top 12 guys, including if Lewis and Reed stay around and extension for Flacco. If for some reason Lewis and Reed aren't around we are at about $70 million.

Steelers on the other hand are at 100 million again in 2014, and that is with only 10 big contracts not 12 like the Ravens have accounted for. That is with Hampton, Keisel, and Clark coming off the books.

The future is bright for us and the division for the next couple years, that is for damn sure.

I will try to work on the article, but it is going to take some time crunching all these numbers in depth and figuring out just how in the hell they are going to deal with this.

Hmm...maybe there will be some cap room to bring in some big ticket guys? Not that I think that's how the Ravens roll, but if they have upwards of $40 mill to spare, might as well consider it...

Greg Jennings
Dwayne Bowe
Mike Wallace
Will Svitek
Ryan Clady
Duane Brown
Brandon Albert
Jake Long
Jermon Bushrod
Max Unger
Geoff Hangartner
Rey Maualuga
William Moore
Louis Delmas

Obviously not many, if any, will actually be free agents, but it's possible and the Ravens will have money to throw at them.

**TheJoeFlaccoShow** · 07-30-2012, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Hmm...maybe there will be some cap room to bring in some big ticket guys? Not that I think that's how the Ravens roll, but if they have upwards of $40 mill to spare, might as well consider it...

Greg Jennings
Dwayne Bowe
Mike Wallace
Will Svitek
Ryan Clady
Duane Brown
Brandon Albert
Jake Long
Jermon Bushrod
Max Unger
Geoff Hangartner
Rey Maualuga
William Moore
Louis Delmas

Obviously not many, if any, will actually be free agents, but it's possible and the Ravens will have money to throw at them.

You have to remember though, there are still RFA's EFA's draft pool own FA etc and the other 40 players that eats up the cap money quick. 40 million may sound like a lot, but not really.

I was just pointing out how the Ravens have structured all their top money perfectly even over the next 3 years while the Steelers have been pushing back for 2 years and finally have to pay up. I think we might have restructured one small contract and that is it.

When all is said and done we might have around 8-10 million to play with (guess), or basically the money we had Rice locked up for, eating up our "spending money" in 2012. You could conceivably afford ONE big name addition if that is the case in 2013.

Either way, our main competition is screwed. That is a fact. And I love it.

**TheJoeFlaccoShow** · 07-30-2012, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Hmm...maybe there will be some cap room to bring in some big ticket guys? Not that I think that's how the Ravens roll, but if they have upwards of $40 mill to spare, might as well consider it...

Greg Jennings
Dwayne Bowe
Mike Wallace
Will Svitek
Ryan Clady
Duane Brown
Brandon Albert
Jake Long
Jermon Bushrod
Max Unger
Geoff Hangartner
Rey Maualuga
William Moore
Louis Delmas

Obviously not many, if any, will actually be free agents, but it's possible and the Ravens will have money to throw at them.

You have to remember though, there are still RFA's EFA's draft pool own FA etc and the other 40 players that eats up the cap money quick. 40 million may sound like a lot, but not really.

I was just pointing out how the Ravens have structured all their top money perfectly even over the next 3 years while the Steelers have been pushing back for 2 years and finally have to pay up. I think we might have restructured one small contract and that is it.

When all is said and done we might have around 8-10 million to play with (guess), or basically the money we had Rice locked up for, eating up our "spending money" in 2012. You could conceivably afford ONE big name addition if that is the case in 2013.

Either way, our main competition is screwed. That is a fact. And I love it.

**Irish Raven** · 07-30-2012, 07:11 PM

Jake Long on that list

Wow, now that would be a big signing!

Might never happen but I can dream

**psuasskicker** · 07-30-2012, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

So, realistically, IF Mike Wallace sits out you're looking at a very underwhelming WR unit.

IMO, they don't have a choice but to try and work something out with Wallace otherwise their passing offense is going to be difficult to work with just from a talent perspective. I can't believe they aren't considering Plax or even TO just for some depth.

Almost every receiver corps in the NFL could say that, so it's not really fair to say "Sit Pitt's #1 and our WRs are better." I mean, I guess I get you're talking about the future whenever he's no longer with the team (assuming they don't sign him long-term). But that's still not really apples to apples. A lot can happen in a year. Last year we didn't think the Ravens had much at receiver behind Boldin...you can say the same about the Steelers now. Between now and next year, it's possible Sanders or someone else breaks out the way Torrey Smith did.

- C -

**Haloti92** · 07-30-2012, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by TheJoeFlaccoShow

One thing I messed up on after looking at my spreadsheet, Harrison has TWO years left after this one and NOT one! That is a HUGE difference. They can't release him, it wouldn't save any money. So next year they will have a 35 year old pass rusher who is already in decline taking up 11 million in cap space...and they are stuck with him.

Wow....it is even worse than I thought.

How do you figure that they won't "save" any money by releasing Harrison after this season? From what I have read they would save either $5M or $8M (depending on whether $3M of his non-base salary 2013 comp. is considered a roster bonus) by releasing him. It is impossible to even imagine a structure that does not allow for some savings, considering the contract details we do know. Now whether that savings is so small as to not be worth it when also weighing the fact that you lose the player (and his production) is another matter; but assuming you consider him worthless, releasing him will save some cap space.

Bonuses are only spread over 5 years. Next year is the fifth year of the deal (the total deal was for 6 years, signed in 2009 before the 2009 season). There would be no dead cap space from the 6th year of the deal, as far as I can see.

**JAB1985** · 07-30-2012, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by Haloti92

How do you figure that they won't "save" any money by releasing Harrison after this season? From what I have read they would save either $5M or $8M (depending on whether $3M of his non-base salary 2013 comp. is considered a roster bonus) by releasing him. It is impossible to even imagine a structure that does not allow for some savings, considering the contract details we do know. Now whether that savings is so small as to not be worth it when also weighing the fact that you lose the player (and his production) is another matter; but assuming you consider him worthless, releasing him will save some cap space.

Bonuses are only spread over 5 years. Next year is the fifth year of the deal (the total deal was for 6 years, signed in 2009 before the 2009 season). There would be no dead cap space from the 6th year of the deal, as far as I can see.

They restructured him though, do they still have to stay within those 5 years at that point? I thought they could move that money across any the remaining years?

**Haloti92** · 07-30-2012, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by JAB1985

They restructured him though, do they still have to stay within those 5 years at that point? I thought they could move that money across any the remaining years?

When and how did they restructure him? I only saw that they were talking about it (along with Ben and Colon etc). I had yet to see that they did it (unlike Ben and Colon). I can't find the report or details, but yeah if they did restructure then they could have pushed more into the future and limited the savings they could have had in 2013 by releasing him.

**TheJoeFlaccoShow** · 07-30-2012, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Haloti92

When and how did they restructure him? I only saw that they were talking about it (along with Ben and Colon etc). I had yet to see that they did it (unlike Ben and Colon). I can't find the report or details, but yeah if they did restructure then they could have pushed more into the future and limited the savings they could have had in 2013 by releasing him.

They restructured him last year with the rest of the team.

Quarterback Ben Roethlisberger and Pro Bowl outside linebacker James Harrison have restructured their contracts to help the Steelers get under the salary cap and perhaps free some room to sign players, the Post-Gazette has learned.

But that said, over the past few hours I have been digging and there are some details I was not aware of. They actually can release him and save a good bit of money, and they definitely will. I wasn't aware of that roster bonus.

His cap number is 10.686, and they can save 8 million by cutting him, leaving 2.686 in dead money.

A lot of his bonus money was paid out before the restructure last year, and that is why they can get out of that one relatively unscathed. Not so with a lot of the others.

Of course, they have no one to replace him on the roster, along with the other players they will be cutting.

**Haloti92** · 07-30-2012, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by TheJoeFlaccoShow

They restructured him last year with the rest of the team.

But that said, over the past few hours I have been digging and there are some details I was not aware of. They actually can release him and save a good bit of money, and they definitely will. I wasn't aware of that roster bonus.

His cap number is 10.686, and they can save 8 million by cutting him, leaving 2.686 in dead money.

A lot of his bonus money was paid out before the restructure last year, and that is why they can get out of that one relatively unscathed. Not so with a lot of the others.

Of course, they have no one to replace him on the roster, along with the other players they will be cutting.

Ok, I missed the restructure announcement, but looks like they didn't go hog-wild pushing a ton to the future years. I agree completely with your overall assessment about the (un)affordability of franchising Wallace (and even to some extent signing him to a long term deal). I was just curious about the Harrison statement because I had read (and thought interesting) that there is a decent chance that he gets released next year unless he either a) lights it up this year, or b) takes a paycut. When I had read that it surprised me, and I figured it wouldn't even be a consideration if there wasn't some kind of cap savings. Either way, like you say, the Steelers are stretched beyond thin on a relatively small number of marquee contracts.

**TheJoeFlaccoShow** · 07-30-2012, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by Haloti92

Ok, I missed the restructure announcement, but looks like they didn't go hog-wild pushing a ton to the future years. I agree completely with your overall assessment about the (un)affordability of franchising Wallace (and even to some extent signing him to a long term deal). I was just curious about the Harrison statement because I had read (and thought interesting) that there is a decent chance that he gets released next year unless he either a) lights it up this year, or b) takes a paycut. When I had read that it surprised me, and I figured it wouldn't even be a consideration if there wasn't some kind of cap savings. Either way, like you say, the Steelers are stretched beyond thin on a relatively small number of marquee contracts.

I'm putting together a spreadsheet now and have been researching all the details of their big deals, and from the early results it looks like another round of restructuring everyone under the sun/along with cuts to slide under...again. That is all well and good for now, but it is extremely high risk if anyone gets hurt or does not perform.

The bonus money portion just keeps getting bigger...and bigger...and bigger and then they are in a spot where they pretty much can't release those players with any savings. It also creates massive cap numbers relative to the players value, which even if it is only a couple million here or there trickles down to the rest of the roster eventually. And when you do it with 6-8 players year after year, it adds up.

Back to work.

**Boulderraven** · 07-30-2012, 10:55 PM

It's simple. Please follow. They chose Brown. MW grew up dirt poor. Got his tender will sign it in November for 6 games. Like VJ did, will accrue a season. Will he know the NEW offense? Do the Steelers want a headache? 5 months later at worst in March he will have about 10 million in hand for next year if Steelers keep him or alot more if dealt. THEY have to deal him, they can't AFFORD him. Steelers likely get 3rd or 4th for him cause of his contract. Broncos where going to take tender him, but he wanted between 10-11 million per year, they balked also. He in 7-8 months will be stupid rich
And doesn't want to risk a knee in the meantime being his calling card is his Speed. So he won't play
he has too, November and he doesn't have to be active to accrue time and can "pull" a hammy. He's
gone. He has the Steelers by the balls, not other way around. 7 months from now he will have tons of money without really playing.