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Thread: I knew it!!!

  1. #49
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    Re: I knew it!!!



    I have a question for the regular participants here - are you satisfied with the return game?

    I'm not. I really haven't been satisfied with the return game since Jim Leonhard left with Rex before Harbaugh's second year. I really think ST are important. Aside from defensive turnovers (and, granted, the Ravens tend to be more blessed in that area that other teams), ST determines the offense's every possession. Statistically speaking, this offense's personnel is more potent than the previous regime had, but that offense (particularly the Superbowl year) got great help from ST. I kind of think of it like a pitcher in baseball getting run-support. If this offense got the kind of "run-support" from ST the old one did, they'd be fairly hard to beat. Helps the defense, too.

    So, I get the impression that the Ravens have decided it's become too important to keep trying to groom a returner from the roster, that it's worth a FA signing to try and get some more production out of that area. I can't really disagree. But, in the JJ signing threads I see on here, the discussion always focuses on the WR aspect, leading me to believe that I'm in a fairly small number of Ravens' fans concerned about the return game. Am I just being silly and it isn't a big deal?




  2. #50
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    Re: I knew it!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by dreamjo View Post
    I have a question for the regular participants here - are you satisfied with the return game?

    I'm not. I really haven't been satisfied with the return game since Jim Leonhard left with Rex before Harbaugh's second year. I really think ST are important. Aside from defensive turnovers (and, granted, the Ravens tend to be more blessed in that area that other teams), ST determines the offense's every possession. Statistically speaking, this offense's personnel is more potent than the previous regime had, but that offense (particularly the Superbowl year) got great help from ST. I kind of think of it like a pitcher in baseball getting run-support. If this offense got the kind of "run-support" from ST the old one did, they'd be fairly hard to beat. Helps the defense, too.

    So, I get the impression that the Ravens have decided it's become too important to keep trying to groom a returner from the roster, that it's worth a FA signing to try and get some more production out of that area. I can't really disagree. But, in the JJ signing threads I see on here, the discussion always focuses on the WR aspect, leading me to believe that I'm in a fairly small number of Ravens' fans concerned about the return game. Am I just being silly and it isn't a big deal?
    Good post indeed.




  3. #51

    Re: I knew it!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by dreamjo View Post
    I have a question for the regular participants here - are you satisfied with the return game?

    I'm not. I really haven't been satisfied with the return game since Jim Leonhard left with Rex before Harbaugh's second year. I really think ST are important. Aside from defensive turnovers (and, granted, the Ravens tend to be more blessed in that area that other teams), ST determines the offense's every possession. Statistically speaking, this offense's personnel is more potent than the previous regime had, but that offense (particularly the Superbowl year) got great help from ST. I kind of think of it like a pitcher in baseball getting run-support. If this offense got the kind of "run-support" from ST the old one did, they'd be fairly hard to beat. Helps the defense, too.

    So, I get the impression that the Ravens have decided it's become too important to keep trying to groom a returner from the roster, that it's worth a FA signing to try and get some more production out of that area. I can't really disagree. But, in the JJ signing threads I see on here, the discussion always focuses on the WR aspect, leading me to believe that I'm in a fairly small number of Ravens' fans concerned about the return game. Am I just being silly and it isn't a big deal?
    i dont necessarily disagree with you but at the same time, when david reed was healthy we had a top performing return game. unfortunately its depth at that position we lacked not ability. I think parmele was actually pretty decent as a backup. once we lost him weve struggled to replace him. I dont remember Doss getting a chance even though he was a great college returner, i believe smith was in the battle and may have even returned a few. i think in Jones case it usually becomes talk of WR because he was paid pretty well to come here, more than just a KR in more peoples eyes. 3.5 million/year as opposed to ted ginn who signed a 1 year 1.375, who we had in for that very same role. to me thats the difference, even if his primary job is KR, they paid him to be more. contract breakdown im a little fuzzy on but i believe its 1.6 year 1 with 900k in dead money if we release him next year. so its essentially a 2.5 million 1 year deal, worst case scenario, for a guy that doesnt excel at KR as much as Ginn did i believe.

    I dont like the signing, but i do think hell give us value regardless of his shortcomings. hopefully he does improve the KR team and give us more depth with Jackson now.
    -JAB




  4. #52

    Re: I knew it!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by dreamjo View Post
    I have a question for the regular participants here - are you satisfied with the return game?

    I'm not. I really haven't been satisfied with the return game since Jim Leonhard left with Rex before Harbaugh's second year. I really think ST are important. Aside from defensive turnovers (and, granted, the Ravens tend to be more blessed in that area that other teams), ST determines the offense's every possession. Statistically speaking, this offense's personnel is more potent than the previous regime had, but that offense (particularly the Superbowl year) got great help from ST. I kind of think of it like a pitcher in baseball getting run-support. If this offense got the kind of "run-support" from ST the old one did, they'd be fairly hard to beat. Helps the defense, too.

    So, I get the impression that the Ravens have decided it's become too important to keep trying to groom a returner from the roster, that it's worth a FA signing to try and get some more production out of that area. I can't really disagree. But, in the JJ signing threads I see on here, the discussion always focuses on the WR aspect, leading me to believe that I'm in a fairly small number of Ravens' fans concerned about the return game. Am I just being silly and it isn't a big deal?
    I'm with ya.

    Although, I've read that Webb has been in the PR mix, certainly no one wants to see a $50M man exposed to the hard and often low hits that he could take in that role. Also, DReed is hobbled and will be released or IR'd for sure this summer, as many are presuming (me included). Certainly, we don't need 31 year old Ed Reed back there either. Jones was brought in here to shine in that role; and there's no doubt in my mind that in order to get him here, we verbally committed to making him the de facto #3; and that job will be his until he loses it. So I think folks need to get used to him running the 3.

    More to your greater point...the cliche about ST is that a bad ST performance can lose you games, and this cliche has historically been centered on kick/punt coverage. The re/signings of Banjo, Graham and Considine, and the drafting of cats like CThompson and Jackson should keep us in good shape there.

    However, I think we have decided to flip the cliche around and adopt the attitude that ST can (oh-by-the-way) win you games too, and they should be constructed as such. That along with the fact that we also had to replace a couple of solid STers that left us this year explains the moves we've made. So while KR/PR is certainly key...it's the entire unit(s) that we have tried to upgrade. In a tough division, and a tough league where 10-6 might not get you to the playoffs, every advantage is going to count. Our DB and LB depth, veteran toughness and team speed are going to serve us well.




  5. #53

    Re: I knew it!!!

    Despite all the yakking here, it appears that much-maligned Cameron will be waking up this year and using 3receiver sets more often (I'll see it when I believe it) that will consist of:
    Smith, Jones and Boldin

    Jacoby is being paid several million to participate in two phases of the game, not just one. Torrey and Jacoby will leave Boldin, Rice and Dickson/Pitta available for some nice mismatches.

    I was not excited about the signing, but Ozzie likes to sign guys who burned his team before, and Jacoby made the game closer than it had to be when the Texans came to the Bank last season. I remember the kickoff gift in the playoffs, too. That's why I wasn't impressed with the signing.
    However, I bet Ozzie has a file on Jacoby from when before the draft, and decided he would add him to the mix because he was on their board in 2008.
    Here is Rotoworld's summation of his contract:
    Jones received a $1.8 million prorated signing bonus, but the Ravens could free up $4 million next offseason by releasing him. Jones is due a $3 million 2013 base salary, with a $1 million roster bonus in the spring. He'll only last one season as a Raven unless he turns it on as a starting-capable wideout.
    The guy can be good. I hope he makes me a believer.
    After 5 years of early exits, the journey is finally complete.




  6. #54
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    Re: I knew it!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    I'm with ya.

    Although, I've read that Webb has been in the PR mix, certainly no one wants to see a $50M man exposed to the hard and often low hits that he could take in that role. Also, DReed is hobbled and will be released or IR'd for sure this summer, as many are presuming (me included). Certainly, we don't need 31 year old Ed Reed back there either. Jones was brought in here to shine in that role; and there's no doubt in my mind that in order to get him here, we verbally committed to making him the de facto #3; and that job will be his until he loses it. So I think folks need to get used to him running the 3.

    More to your greater point...the cliche about ST is that a bad ST performance can lose you games, and this cliche has historically been centered on kick/punt coverage. The re/signings of Banjo, Graham and Considine, and the drafting of cats like CThompson and Jackson should keep us in good shape there.

    However, I think we have decided to flip the cliche around and adopt the attitude that ST can (oh-by-the-way) win you games too, and they should be constructed as such. That along with the fact that we also had to replace a couple of solid STers that left us this year explains the moves we've made. So while KR/PR is certainly key...it's the entire unit(s) that we have tried to upgrade. In a tough division, and a tough league where 10-6 might not get you to the playoffs, every advantage is going to count. Our DB and LB depth, veteran toughness and team speed are going to serve us well.
    Ed Reed is going to be 34 on 9/11. If we don't want 31 year old Ed Reed back there we really don't want 34 year old Ed Reed out there.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  7. #55

    Re: I knew it!!!

    lol...thanks Gota. I was doing the math in my head, and Ed's age looked wrong as hell when I typed it, but I was too lazy to Google it.




  8. #56
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    Re: I knew it!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    lol...thanks Gota. I was doing the math in my head, and Ed's age looked wrong as hell when I typed it, but I was too lazy to Google it.
    If anything it proves your point even more.

    I just hope they really do see it that way. Maybe the problem is we all remember Patrick Johnson and Jermaine Lewis being force fed into the offense. The guys who made those decisions though are long gone.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  9. #57

    Re: I knew it!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by dreamjo View Post
    I have a question for the regular participants here - are you satisfied with the return game?

    I'm not. I really haven't been satisfied with the return game since Jim Leonhard left with Rex before Harbaugh's second year. I really think ST are important. Aside from defensive turnovers (and, granted, the Ravens tend to be more blessed in that area that other teams), ST determines the offense's every possession. Statistically speaking, this offense's personnel is more potent than the previous regime had, but that offense (particularly the Superbowl year) got great help from ST. I kind of think of it like a pitcher in baseball getting run-support. If this offense got the kind of "run-support" from ST the old one did, they'd be fairly hard to beat. Helps the defense, too.

    So, I get the impression that the Ravens have decided it's become too important to keep trying to groom a returner from the roster, that it's worth a FA signing to try and get some more production out of that area. I can't really disagree. But, in the JJ signing threads I see on here, the discussion always focuses on the WR aspect, leading me to believe that I'm in a fairly small number of Ravens' fans concerned about the return game. Am I just being silly and it isn't a big deal?
    You're not being silly. We just think that he was brought in to be more than a returner, even though that will be his primary role. We are skeptical. We all agree that we needed better play from our returners, even though Webb was good (We don't want him returning punts anyway).
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  10. #58

    Re: I knew it!!!

    Aaron Wilson tweet:
    Jacoby Jones outran Jimmy Smith on a fly route for a long touchdown from Joe Flacco
    This right here. Only 7, 8 and 9 routes, please b/c if TSmith has become only a marginally better route runner in the OS, we don't need anything else from Jones.




  11. #59

    Re: I knew it!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    This right here. Only 7, 8 and 9 routes, please b/c if TSmith has become only a marginally better route runner in the OS, we don't need anything else from Jones.
    Do not buy into this lulling temptation. Only the reports that I quote about his man are accurate. lol The rest is mere fallacy, and nothing more.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  12. #60
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    Re: I knew it!!!

    Didn't Jimmy hurt his foot or leg today or something?

    It's nice to see Jacoby not dropping a pass while being covered by Jimmy, BUT he also had a pass bounce right off of his hands and into the arms of Albert McClellan.
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